Confirmed with Link: Head of Amateur Pracey Fired. UPD: Hired by Flyers - UPD: Hepple doing 2015 draft

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I'm always surprised there is such a debate about this... Pracey wasn't the worst, but he was average at best. You don't contend for a cup by having average drafting, it needs to be top 10 or maybe even 5. Sakic and Roy's scouting staff might not do any better than Pracey did in the end, but they have to at least try to improve on what Pracey did. They are obviously doing that.

I like that they have taken guys that could be high reward players like Kyle Wood and Geertsen.

 

[henchman21]

I like that they have taken guys that could be high reward players like Kyle Wood and Geertsen.

Agreed and you could add Pepin to that list. Then to balance that, they have taken 'safe' picks in Bleacks, Bigras, and Magyar (I think he can be projected into a 4th line role fairly easily).

I would say that Geertsen was a fairly safe pick though, since his floor is a decent AHL shut down guy, but his upside was higher (and I think he is surpassing what they envisioned).

 

[AvsRobin]

Do we know of any scouts that have been hired since Roy and Sakic took office?

I know Anton Edlund started in 2013. No idea how he got the job though. A 26 year old player who played in the 3rd division in Sweden and decided to quit to become a scout for an NHL organization.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Do we know of any scouts that have been hired since Roy and Sakic took office?

I know Anton Edlund started in 2013. No idea how he got the job though. A 26 year old player who played in the 3rd division in Sweden and decided to quit to become a scout for an NHL organization.

I believe they also brought in Jerome Mesonero, he was a GM in the Q.

 

[5280]

I'm always surprised there is such a debate about this... Pracey wasn't the worst, but he was average at best. You don't contend for a cup by having average drafting, it needs to be top 10 or maybe even 5. Sakic and Roy's scouting staff might not do any better than Pracey did in the end, but they have to at least try to improve on what Pracey did. They are obviously doing that.

Yeah, this is very surprising to me as well.

 

[avsfan09]

I feel like LA, STL, and TBay have taken a lot of high risk, high reward picks. Pracey honestly looks like he took guys that projected to do well at the CHL level, but didn't have the best NHL skill sets. It doesn't help that he basically took the exact same forward repeatedly.

I feel like he Valued character too highly and at a certain point in the draft you have to recognize that the character guys left have very little in terms of tools and you have to take some chances. He should have valued tools much higher and taken some risk.

Also to those saying Butcher was a Roy pick: that was a Pracey pick 100%. I even remember him glowing about him after the draft.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Flashback Friday. Good call on this one gentleman

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=19032117&postcount=854

 

[dahrougem2]

Flashback Friday. Good call on this one gentleman

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=19032117&postcount=854

That's as accurate a description as you'll ever see and he predicted it 6 years ago

Somebody hire that man as a scout

 

[cgf]

I like that they have taken guys that could be high reward players like Kyle Wood and Geertsen.

I also really liked (I think it was) the Nantel pick. Rolling the dice on a highly talented kid who had gotten some top 2 round talk before the season, but dropped hard because of a quiet draft season as he earned his way up the food chain in his first year as a not-quite-MacK/Barkov-young draftee. Now he's getting the opportunities to produce and his numbers are much more in line with what people wanted to see from him last season and he's looking he might grow into someone who'll help turn our AHL team into a competitive squad where prospects can learn and compete, and maybe more. Cause he does have NHL-scoring-line tools.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

I also really liked (I think it was) the Nantel pick. Rolling the dice on a highly talented kid who had gotten some top 2 round talk before the season, but dropped hard because of a quiet draft season as he earned his way up the food chain in his first year as a not-quite-MacK/Barkov-young draftee. Now he's getting the opportunities to produce and his numbers are much more in line with what people wanted to see from him last season and he's looking he might grow into someone who'll help turn our AHL team into a competitive squad where prospects can learn and compete, and maybe more. Cause he does have NHL-scoring-line tools.

I've seen Nantel a few times. He has speed and a good two-way game. I think someone mentioned he's one of the youngest players from the 2014 draft. He loves to shoot the puck on net as well. Honestly Nantel could turn out to be a very good and surprising forward.

 

[The Kingslayer]

That's as accurate a description as you'll ever see and he predicted it 6 years ago

Somebody hire that man as a scout

If you go back and look a those old threads alot of our posters got it more right than wrong lol except when it seemed like a bunch of people really wanted Scroeder at 33. Props to Avsboy who was the only one who wanted ROR at 33 while everyone else wanted Shore and Roussel

Also what some folks thought of Tboobs being drafted where he was

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=20097601&postcount=94

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=20097607&postcount=96

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=20097652&postcount=101

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=20097659&postcount=102

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=20097767&postcount=110

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=20097798&postcount=111

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=20097934&postcount=115

haha Bender really disliked Barrie but amazing call on Vatanen. Props to bender on that one.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Yeah people shouldn't forget Nantel at least as far as a prospect goes. If he had been drafted in rounds 3-4 (and he really could/should have) he'd be on the radar. Because of his age this is only his second season in the Q.

 

[cgf]

Re: Pracey, I'm conflicted. I'm glad he was replaced and really like the new direction, so far, but I also think he did a useful job for us in the beginning and the plan wasn't nearly as bad as it ended up working out.

We were unbelieveably talent deprived when this whole thing started. And we were talent starved throughout the organization, not just at the NHL level, but at the AHL level, and in junior. So I understand the thinking that our organization needed guys who would step in quickly somewhere on the food chain and do so solidly, while helping to set a tone of hard work, with as many picks as possible. Just so they could start filling out the framework for our pipeline and creating an environment were riskier prospects could eventually be developed with reliable hardworkers surrounding them.

Now he got a little unlucky that Hishon got his brains scrambled, Elliott was broken by Sacco, Dean wasn't much good at developing guys in the AHL, and that we didn't have half as many picks for him to work with as the Sabres have assembled through their rebuild...probably because the team competing for the playoffs every other season tricked the Fat Snake into thinking we were closer than we were, leading him never to tell Greg from Accounting to not just focus on hunting for EJ/Varly type trades but also to sell at the deadline and amass picks when he could...Thus the plan really couldn't work out as smoothly as what I think had been planned, even if Pracey had hit with more of his picks, which is why I'm happy he was replaced.

But I still appreciate the idea of focusing on getting as many base hits as they could with the picks that were unlikely to produce NHLers, even if that meant adding career AHLers; and being riskier higher up the draft where even the "risky" prospects are a good bet to become NHLers. At the time it was a reasonable strategy to at least start putting together some sort foundation to build from so we weren't just throwing absolutely every prospect to the wolves, whether they were one of the special ones joining the talent deprived NHL team, or one of the others joining the talent deprived AHL team...even if they didn't execute the strategy too well.

I also think there was a philosophy that the avs could accelerate the rebuild and be more efficient with their picks by focusing on developing forwards and PMDs, who develop more quickly, and then moving them for the more defensively sound DMen and goalies that take longer to develop, and so are riskier to pick. Basically to try and put themselves in position to jump at a second EJ-trade with which to get his partner, and then a third (smaller) iteration of that to find Barrie's/future-Barrie's partner. Which, yeah...

 

[Foppa2118]

I feel like he Valued character too highly and at a certain point in the draft you have to recognize that the character guys left have very little in terms of tools and you have to take some chances. He should have valued tools much higher and taken some risk.

Also to those saying Butcher was a Roy pick: that was a Pracey pick 100%. I even remember him glowing about him after the draft.

Absolutely. I remember him semi jokingly saying he had to talk them into drafting him saying he's going to be a really good player. So far he looks like he hasn't really proven him wrong, though he obviously hasn't been NHL tested yet.

 

[dahrougem2]

He absolutely roasted Barrie

I wasn't a fan of drafting two of the same defenseman right after each other, but I have learned over the years to never question a Kelowna Rockets defenseman.

Barrie, Edler, Gorges, Hannan, Keith, Myers, Regehr, Schenn, Souray, and Weber are some of their NHL alumni as defenseman. They're a factory up there

 

[cgf]

I've seen Nantel a few times. He has speed and a good two-way game. I think someone mentioned he's one of the youngest players from the 2014 draft. He loves to shoot the puck on net as well. Honestly Nantel could turn out to be a very good and surprising forward.

Yeah people shouldn't forget Nantel at least as far as a prospect goes. If he had been drafted in rounds 3-4 (and he really could/should have) he'd be on the radar. Because of his age this is only his second season in the Q.

True. I just like setting achievable, benchmark-type, expectations and ratcheting them up as the prospect proves more about how much of their potential they will make use of. Which is why my expectation for him is that he can become a high quality AHL top 6 goal winger who's a key guy for them should our AHL affiliate ever become good enough to gun for the calder cup. That seems a reasonable expectation from what I've read and the light bits I've seen, but it doesn't preclude the hope that he really makes the most of his tools and surpasses those expectations comfortably, at which point we'll have to re-assess with a lot more to judge on.

Which is why I like the pick, very low cost gamble, that seems like it'll payoff solidly, and could pay off very nicely indeed, should he does continue surpassing expectations.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

Yeah, this is very surprising to me as well.

I think some people just agree with his philosophy of ignoring size for the most part, and it's hard for them to accept a new philosophy, especially one that seems to value size a good amount. It's more about liking the style than thinking the results were acceptable.

Personally, I am a huge fan of balance (even wrote a small paper about it for a college class, had to pick one characteristic that is the most important in sports), so I'm loving the apparent direction they are going. It will probably be hard for me to let go when it comes time if the new brain trust wants to go heavy in one aspect of the game while sacrificing another.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

The debate about Roy/Pracey aside, I think that the smartest idea Joe and Patty have brought to this organization is the need for a solid foundation.

LE has always been a team in complete shambles. There's no denying that. I think once they're moved out West, like almost every Western NHL team wants to do with their AHL clubs, we will see a huge change in both philosophy and talent level.

I really like how they added Ft. Wayne as their ECHL team, it's easily one of the top-5 teams in that league and is a great place to start. All the "Dean's Doghouse" residents that were sent there usually came back with a ton of confidence and played well down there, with the coaching staff helping them to "find their game".

 

[5280]

I think some people just agree with his philosophy of ignoring size for the most part, and it's hard for them to accept a new philosophy, especially one that seems to value size a good amount. It's more about liking the style than thinking the results were acceptable.

Personally, I am a huge fan of balance (even wrote a small paper about it for a college class, had to pick one characteristic that is the most important in sports), so I'm loving the apparent direction they are going. It will probably be hard for me to let go when it comes time if the new brain trust wants to go heavy in one aspect of the game while sacrificing another.

Makes sense. I like the direction they are going in, also. Not sure he should have thrown Pracey under the bus like he did, but I agree with what he said.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I also think part of it is he doesn't want to lambast the players for not being good enough.

 

[5280]

I also think part of it is he doesn't want to lambast the players for not being good enough.

Could be......could be he was just calling a spade a spade, too, I guess.

 

[dahrougem2]

Still waiting on an interview where Roy tears good ol' Deano a new one

 

[tigervixxxen]

Still waiting on an interview where Roy tears good ol' Deano a new one

Wait until he's gone

Oh I think he's genuinely unhappy with Pracey but why he goes over the top on him is I think he doesn't want it to sounds like he's ragging on the players. It's "we didnt pick the right players" instead of "we didn't pick good players". In reality it's some of both but I'm trying to say it's why he seems overly harsh on Pracey.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I have no doubt Chynoweth will be gone if the Monsters miss the playoffs. When Roy says "there's no reason Lake Erie shouldn't be in the playoffs", he can't be talking about just Pracey.

 

[dahrougem2]

I have no doubt Chynoweth will be gone if the Monsters miss the playoffs. When Roy says "there's no reason Lake Erie shouldn't be in the playoffs", he can't be talking about just Pracey.

And good riddance, really. Has he done anything positive for this organization in terms of player development?