Head Coach discussion

Who will be the first coach in franchise history?


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Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
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This hiring needs a wait and see approach, it's not uncommon for a coach to fail, gain m9ore experience as an assistant and then improve when given a second chance. It's also not like he had a great team in Philly either, his results seem on par with the roster IMO.
 
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periferal

Registered User
Jul 5, 2007
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Wasn't that sold on Francis either as I thought his style of hockey was out dated etc. However, he has been saying all the right things in Seattle. He wants to move toward more analytics. Whether right or wrong, time will tell, Further, he knows he will be dealing with a young roster and thus Hakstol's background at North Dakota was a plus. Think Hakstol is better than Tocchet. Yet, any coach will likely have a tough go as the
first coach of the Kraken. At best, we can all hope that both Francis and Hakstol perform well given second opportunities.


Who cares what people say? It’s all about what they DO, and what Francis did in Carolina was put an incredibly boring/average team on the ice and didn’t fire a toxic coach in Peters.

I don’t think people really change that much which is why as excited as I am for Seattle to have a hockey team, it already feels like to me they’re going to need to change their GM to ultimately become a cup contender.
 

Riverfront

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Jan 5, 2015
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francis does do his homework. He wants to have his fingers on the process the whole time. Hakstol fits his style of coach.
( babcock & tortorella ) not so much. I am sure he witnessed first hand in Austria in 2019 what kind of individual hakstol was.
First class character, # 1 on francis list, wanted someone who cares about his players on and off ice. I am sure his friend Kyle
Dubas gave great insight on hakstol the person as well as the coach. Coaching is not rocket science, you need good people who
the players will go thru the end boards for in terms of work ethic and committment. At the end of the day you need good players.
Bergevin + Dom Ducharme were one shot away from the Toronto Maple Leafs from being on the unemployment line, now today
won't be surprised if both sign a 5 year extension with there respective teams. Time will tell if this hire is the right hire.
 
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FlyguyOX

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Jun 29, 2018
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This hiring needs a wait and see approach, it's not uncommon for a coach to fail, gain m9ore experience as an assistant and then improve when given a second chance. It's also not like he had a great team in Philly either, his results seem on par with the roster IMO.
Yeah those scrubs Brayden Schenn, Sean Couturier, Claude Giroux down the middle. Horrible players.

Well this hiring tells me Francis is trying to tank for the next 4 years. Enjoy that.
 
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Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,374
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Yeah those scrubs Brayden Schenn, Sean Couturier, Claude Giroux down the middle. Horrible players.

Well this hiring tells me Francis is trying to tank for the next 4 years. Enjoy that.
Last 10 seasons for Philly.

2011-12: Lost in 2nd round
2012-13: DNQ
2013-14: First round loss
2014-15: DNQ
2015-16: First round loss
2016-17: DNQ
2017-18: First round loss
2018-19: DNQ
2019-20: Lost in 2nd round
2020-21: DNQ

Hakstol coached the Flyers for 4 seasons from 2015-2018. Made the playoffs 2 of his 3 full seasons and got fired in his 4th. Based on the above though, seems just about right based on Philly's history over the last decade. They are just not a very well managed team. Not giving a pass to Hakstol for his coaching 'issues' but the problems in Philly lie further up in the hierarchy than coaching.
 
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Sad People

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Jun 4, 2021
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We told ourselves the same sort of things when he was hired in Philly. Best of luck to you guys with Hak, but I would just keep expectations low and hope for the best.
Im not praying for the stars personally, Id rather take a slow approach to this and build up our prospect pool to when the time comes the Kraken can pounce and It sounds like hes a good teacher of the game. Personally I am cool with not being like VGK and making a run for the cup in our first inaugural season, To me VGK seem to be the outlier and always will be with the kind of success theyve had since coming into the league.
 

Sad People

Registered User
Jun 4, 2021
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Maybe we hired him to be our guy for a few years teach our young players the game because it sounds like hes good at that then we move on from him when were ready to make a legit push for the cup. Just spit balling here for the sake of the thread.
 

StarterHart

Waffle
Feb 2, 2018
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Maybe we hired him to be our guy for a few years teach our young players the game because it sounds like hes good at that then we move on from him when were ready to make a legit push for the cup. Just spit balling here for the sake of the thread.

That's the problem. If that is your goal, he's literally the opposite of what you want. He is not good with young players. Like at all. My issues with this hire are not because I have some unrealistic expectation of matching or exceeding Vegas' success right out of the gate. It's because a coach like Hakstol can do serious damage that will last years after he is inevitably fired into the sun.
 

Crescent Street

Saturday Nite Hockey
Sep 19, 2004
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It's easy to be optimistic and a little bias with all of the excitement with the birth of a new franchise. And rightfully so. This discussion is like when you have the "talk" with your best friend who is in the honeymoon phase with a woman you know all too well, and ends up breaking up with sooner than they first thought. They end up saying, "you were right". I truly wish the best for the franchise, the league needs more thriving fanbases in the region, I just wish you had someone else leading you.
 

GapToothedWonder

Registered User
Dec 20, 2013
5,234
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Paris of the Praries
Im not praying for the stars personally, Id rather take a slow approach to this and build up our prospect pool to when the time comes the Kraken can pounce and It sounds like hes a good teacher of the game. Personally I am cool with not being like VGK and making a run for the cup in our first inaugural season, To me VGK seem to be the outlier and always will be with the kind of success theyve had since coming into the league.

I get why you would think this what with his long college coaching tenure but it did not translate into results with the Flyers. His handling of young players and the lack of progression of the Flyers prospects/young players was probably my biggest issues with him as a coach. I was way more concerned about seeing progression from players then I was about on season results.

Maybe he was doing a good job behind the scenes, its always hard to tell with something like player development. But the on ice results in players play definitely wasn't there. If anything he would lean into his veterans hard at the expense of ice time and learning opportunities for the young players.

Again I wish you guys all the best, but as other Flyers fans have said on here, I think he was the worst Flyers coaches I have seen in the 20ish years I have been following the team closely.
 

Fistfullofbeer

Moderator
May 9, 2011
30,374
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Whidbey Island, WA
It's easy to be optimistic and a little bias with all of the excitement with the birth of a new franchise. And rightfully so. This discussion is like when you have the "talk" with your best friend who is in the honeymoon phase with a woman you know all too well, and ends up breaking up with sooner than they first thought. They end up saying, "you were right". I truly wish the best for the franchise, the league needs more thriving fanbases in the region, I just wish you had someone else leading you.
People get divorced all the time. Most of them learn from it though and try to not repeat the same mistakes. The Flyers were Hakstol's first team as a NHL head coach. It did not work out. Does not mean the same will happen again.

I think the right thing as a Seattle fan is to be positive and hope that Francis did his due diligence before hiring Hakstol despite his failure in Philly. I totally expect fans from other teams, specially the Flyers, to shit on him because he did not work out for them.

Another thing for Seattle fans is that we need to keep in mind that Vegas was an aberration as far as success for expansion teams go. Expecting that kind of success is very unrealistic. I am just hoping to get a fast playing and checking team.
 
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MacDonald4MVP

Registered User
May 7, 2016
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I get why you would think this what with his long college coaching tenure but it did not translate into results with the Flyers. His handling of young players and the lack of progression of the Flyers prospects/young players was probably my biggest issues with him as a coach. I was way more concerned about seeing progression from players then I was about on season results.

Maybe he was doing a good job behind the scenes, its always hard to tell with something like player development. But the on ice results in players play definitely wasn't there. If anything he would lean into his veterans hard at the expense of ice time and learning opportunities for the young players.

Again I wish you guys all the best, but as other Flyers fans have said on here, I think he was the worst Flyers coaches I have seen in the 20ish years I have been following the team closely.
Also hakstol never rests his goalies instead opting for running them to the ground or being forced to switch by inevitable injuries. He played brian elliott for 19 straight games at one point. Only to suffer season ending injury to be sidelined for a month before coming back and having two surgeries once the season ended.

Though one of his strong suits is getting the matchups he wants with home ice advantage or not. I'm particularly fond of the memories when he was chasing Malkin matchups with Lehtera.
 

FLYguy3911

Sanheim Lover
Oct 19, 2006
53,174
86,580
Without knowing what the roster looks like, I actually wouldn't expect a Hakstol team to tank in the standings. He loves low-event hockey and I would expect close games because of that (he was seemingly more critical of high scoring wins than low scoring losses, really odd). Now if you are expecting an exciting team like Vegas, you will probably be disappointed. His defensive and NZ systems were fine when he was a head coach and weren't worth much criticism. His OZ "scheme" however, of low-to-high, low percentage point shots, that's a separate issue. Philly also consistently had one of the worst PKs in the league when he was there. They flirted with historically poor GA rates from time-to-time.

Systems are one thing. Player deployment is another and that is probably the most important role of the bench boss. That was easily the most frustrating part of him as a head coach. Every coach has their type, but this man loved his no skill, veteran, heavy types like no one else. Guys like Andrew MacDonald who got waived, sent to the AHL, only to get recalled and played 20 minutes a night. Brandon Manning, who would get scratched to fit a guy like Sanheim in the lineup, only to return playing a top 4 role. Chris Vandevelde, who somehow didn't get healthy scratched until his very last game as a Flyer, playing late in games in high leveraged situations. Jori Lehtera. We're talking about guys out of the league once he was no longing coaching in Philly that he would just lean on in critical situations. My favorite Hakstol quirk was when he would bench Shayne Gostisbehere with 5 minutes to go in games (on the dot) that they were either leading or tied. No one played for the loser point quite like Dave. Now you may say today that Shayne Gostisbehere isn't very good and should have been benched late (you would be wrong), but at that time, Gostisbehere was clearly the best and most talented defenseman on that roster. And he often bailed out the team in OT to get the additional point (if they survived the literal collapse in the defensive zone in the dying seconds of regulation).

I think every fanbase thinks their coach hates playing young players and sometimes we do get carried away, but this guy was on another planet. With the exception of Ivan Provorov, who has this magic aura about him, and Robert Hagg (see above about no skill & heavy types) he just would not give any young player the benefit of the doubt. He seemed to base his decisions very much on reputation. He didn't have much time for the highly skilled, creative players, often benching players immediately after goals against or mistakes. Benching players for entire periods (Aube-Kubel once sat out an entire second, not third, period). He also didn't seem to understand the concept of PDO, which I'm not sure is unique to just him, but it played a part in odd usages. No one road an early season PDO heater quite like Hakstol. Oh and there was also the goalie usage. In college you only play one goalie and I think he kinda thought that would fly in the NHL also. Now that may not be a problem with Seattle not having a farm system or established pipe line of NHL-ready prospects, but if you are hoping he's the coach to lead you to the promised land, I wish you luck.


It's possible he's a changed man who got humbled by his first firing, but he was about as stubborn a head coach as I can remember, so I would not count on it.
 
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Web In Front

Registered User
Feb 1, 2020
386
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Which young players that Hakstol supposedly held back in Philadelphia have amounted to anything? Jordan Weal, Nick Cousins, Taylor Leier and Sam Morin have all proven to be garbage. Gostisbehere and Patrick were better under Hakstol than Vigneault.

Hakstol in Philly got middle of the pack results from a middle of the pack roster. Those teams were never built well enough to win.
 

MacDonald4MVP

Registered User
May 7, 2016
10,033
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Which young players that Hakstol supposedly held back in Philadelphia have amounted to anything? Jordan Weal, Nick Cousins, Taylor Leier and Sam Morin have all proven to be garbage. Gostisbehere and Patrick were better under Hakstol than Vigneault.

Hakstol in Philly got middle of the pack results from a middle of the pack roster. Those teams were never built well enough to win.
Hakstol isn't a development guy per SE, but he does have a say in how his players are used and one thing that is for sure is he doesn't like to put his young guys I a position to succeed to help ease the transition. Only player to be given such a treatment is Robert Hagg.
 

Crescent Street

Saturday Nite Hockey
Sep 19, 2004
3,171
1,027
Long Island
Without knowing what the roster looks like, I actually wouldn't expect a Hakstol team to tank in the standings. He loves low-event hockey and I would expect close games because of that (he was seemingly more critical of high scoring wins than low scoring losses, really odd). Now if you are expecting an exciting team like Vegas, you will probably be disappointed. His defensive and NZ systems were fine when he was a head coach and weren't worth much criticism. His OZ "scheme" however, of low-to-high, low percentage point shots, that's a separate issue. Philly also consistently had one of the worst PKs in the league when he was there. They flirted with historically poor GA rates from time-to-time.

Systems are one thing. Player deployment is another and that is probably the most important role of the bench boss. That was easily the most frustrating part of him as a head coach. Every coach has their type, but this man loved his no skill, veteran, heavy types like no one else. Guys like Andrew MacDonald who got waived, sent to the AHL, only to get recalled and played 20 minutes a night. Brandon Manning, who would get scratched to fit a guy like Sanheim in the lineup, only to return playing a top 4 role. Chris Vandevelde, who somehow didn't get healthy scratched until his very last game as a Flyer, playing late in games in high leveraged situations. Jori Lehtera. We're talking about guys out of the league once he was no longing coaching in Philly that he would just lean on in critical situations. My favorite Hakstol quirk was when he would bench Shayne Gostisbehere with 5 minutes to go in games (on the dot) that they were either leading or tied. No one played for the loser point quite like Dave. Now you may say today that Shayne Gostisbehere isn't very good and should have been benched late (you would be wrong), but at that time, Gostisbehere was clearly the best and most talented defenseman on that roster. And he often bailed out the team in OT to get the additional point (if they survived the literal collapse in the defensive zone in the dying seconds of regulation).

I think every fanbase thinks their coach hates playing young players and sometimes we do get carried away, but this guy was on another planet. With the exception of Ivan Provorov, who has this magic aura about him, and Robert Hagg (see above about no skill & heavy types) he just would not give any young player the benefit of the doubt. He seemed to base his decisions very much on reputation. He didn't have much time for the highly skilled, creative players, often benching players immediately after goals against or mistakes. Benching players for entire periods (Aube-Kubel once sat out an entire second, not third, period). He also didn't seem to understand the concept of PDO, which I'm not sure is unique to just him, but it played a part in odd usages. No one road an early season PDO heater quite like Hakstol. Oh and there was also the goalie usage. In college you only play one goalie and I think he kinda thought that would fly in the NHL also. Now that may not be a problem with Seattle not having a farm system or established pipe line of NHL-ready prospects, but if you are hoping he's the coach to lead you to the promised land, I wish you luck.


It's possible he's a changed man who got humbled by his first firing, but he was about as stubborn a head coach as I can remember, so I would not count on it.
If I were Ron Francis, I would recite this summary word for word directly in front of Hakstol until I was satisfied with his response and acknowledgement of how he will be better. It's the only way.
 

Lunatik

Registered User
Oct 12, 2012
56,252
8,384
Yeah those scrubs Brayden Schenn, Sean Couturier, Claude Giroux down the middle. Horrible players.

Well this hiring tells me Francis is trying to tank for the next 4 years. Enjoy that.
Three players don't make a team, just ask Edmonton and Toronto.
 

Ray Martyniuk

Registered User
Mar 13, 2019
5,275
1,316
Surprised Hakstol was hired as the Head coach. Players play the game though. Good Luck to Ron Francis at the draft July 21 and Good Luck to Dave Hakstol the first "general" of the team. Wishing the Kraken to get the best young team they can with a sprinkling of 3-4 vets to show the kids the ropes
 

FlyguyOX

Registered User
Jun 29, 2018
3,733
3,623
Last 10 seasons for Philly.

2011-12: Lost in 2nd round
2012-13: DNQ
2013-14: First round loss
2014-15: DNQ
2015-16: First round loss
2016-17: DNQ
2017-18: First round loss
2018-19: DNQ
2019-20: Lost in 2nd round
2020-21: DNQ

Hakstol coached the Flyers for 4 seasons from 2015-2018. Made the playoffs 2 of his 3 full seasons and got fired in his 4th. Based on the above though, seems just about right based on Philly's history over the last decade. They are just not a very well managed team. Not giving a pass to Hakstol for his coaching 'issues' but the problems in Philly lie further up in the hierarchy than coaching.

definitely agree FWIW
 

brewski420

Registered User
Sep 29, 2009
5,779
897
Ohio
I meant specifically about Hak and his coaching style.

That is the beauty of it. We can go into it with an open mind about everything. Even someone else's castoffs. Seems like we will be doing that with players as well. You can come back after the expansion draft and tell us how crappy the player we take from the Flyers is. It's all good. The NHL is in Seattle!!
 
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