Confirmed with Link: Hawks sign Ryan Donato (2 years /$2 mil AAV)

HagelsBagels

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Apr 24, 2021
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Kyle is sticking to the plan. The best portfolio managers are disciplined.

He told us what he was going to do and doing exactly that.
It's a really similar plan to what the Cubs did in the early 2010's. Everyone knew they were going to be bad from 2012-2014 but they were building something and when the time was right, they brought in guys like Lester & Zobrist who were key parts to their championship.

Rebuilds tend to go wrong when you try and force things to make it go quicker. Have to trust the fans to be smart enough to realize that something is being built even if it doesn't show up in wins/losses right away.
 

Kevin Musto

Hard for Bedard
Feb 16, 2018
20,963
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I'd re-arrange the deck chairs a bit and I'd like to see Guttman get a shot over Entwistle - but basically this is the way I hope it goes. Obviously Bedard and Reichel need to play prominent roles but I also like Kurashev and Guttman in the lineup to to see if Kurashev can build on last season and see if Guttman is a legit NHL'er.
Guttman is waiver exempt so he's likely to be in Rockford unless he REALLY impresses at camp
 
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Putt Pirate

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Dec 15, 2015
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That bottom 6 is rough. Will be that way for a year or two more I assume. And as stated, then FAs and some of our young prospects will come in.
 

Space umpire

Registered User
Nov 15, 2018
3,009
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Cocoa Beach, Florida
Appreciate what our bottom 6 did last year, but Kyle understands they were mostly AHL guys, and he wants a real team this year. Katchouk, Entwistle, Guttman, Blackwell, Reese Johnson, you are on notice.
Much like Caleb Jones I think Entwistle takes too much shit. He’s a pretty decent 4th liner. It wasn’t his fault he was used on 3rd and at times the 2nd line … or on the power play.
He’s a dime a dozen type guy but I do think he’s an NHLer.
 

ndgt10

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Jul 3, 2009
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It's a really similar plan to what the Cubs did in the early 2010's. Everyone knew they were going to be bad from 2012-2014 but they were building something and when the time was right, they brought in guys like Lester & Zobrist who were key parts to their championship.

Rebuilds tend to go wrong when you try and force things to make it go quicker. Have to trust the fans to be smart enough to realize that something is being built even if it doesn't show up in wins/losses right away.
See Chicago White Sox.
 

vandymeer13

Registered User
Feb 8, 2017
802
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Iowa
Appreciate what our bottom 6 did last year, but Kyle understands they were mostly AHL guys, and he wants a real team this year. Katchouk, Entwistle, Guttman, Blackwell, Reese Johnson, you are on notice.
Guttman and Johnson are the only two i'd want maybe katchouk as a call up. Blackwell sucks, and entwistle should captain the icehogs. We need one guy that has toughness to help protect the franchise.

I'd also like to sign domi trade dickinson out
 

Kevin Musto

Hard for Bedard
Feb 16, 2018
20,963
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Still hoping the Hawks sign Domi and they ship out Raddysh.
I don't think Raddysh has much value around the league.

Yes, he scored 20 goals. But I think teams want to see if he can repeat that, in which case he'd be worth a lot to a contender at the deadline.

Better off holding.
 

clydesdale line

Connor BeJesus
Jan 10, 2012
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hockeydoug

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May 26, 2012
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It's a really similar plan to what the Cubs did in the early 2010's. Everyone knew they were going to be bad from 2012-2014 but they were building something and when the time was right, they brought in guys like Lester & Zobrist who were key parts to their championship.

Rebuilds tend to go wrong when you try and force things to make it go quicker. Have to trust the fans to be smart enough to realize that something is being built even if it doesn't show up in wins/losses right away.
Rebuilds go wrong for alot of reasons.

Chicago's last rebuild went right because Tallon tried to force things. Patience in 2006 would have more closely resembled whatever mess the "yzerplan" is.

I'm surprised I don't see this brought up more often. TB and Colorado got out in front of their skis a bit too and it ended up being great in the long term.
 

ClydeLee

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Mar 23, 2012
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Rebuilds go wrong for alot of reasons.

Chicago's last rebuild went right because Tallon tried to force things. Patience in 2006 would have more closely resembled whatever mess the "yzerplan" is.

I'm surprised I don't see this brought up more often. TB and Colorado got out in front of their skis a bit too and it ended up being great in the long term.
What force are you talking about? Especially by referring to 06? They had to start spending more because of the creation or the cap so he signed Khabibulin and Aucoin if that's what you call forcing things.

Idk what else you could mean.
 
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Kurtosis

GHG
May 26, 2010
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Rebuilds go wrong for alot of reasons.

Chicago's last rebuild went right because Tallon tried to force things. Patience in 2006 would have more closely resembled whatever mess the "yzerplan" is.

I'm surprised I don't see this brought up more often. TB and Colorado got out in front of their skis a bit too and it ended up being great in the long term.
How in the world did the Avs get out in front of their skis?
 

Wally1112pac

Three Year Rebuild lol
Jul 10, 2019
1,206
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Rebuilds go wrong for alot of reasons.

Chicago's last rebuild went right because Tallon tried to force things. Patience in 2006 would have more closely resembled whatever mess the "yzerplan" is.

I don't exactly know what you're trying to say?

Mike Smith drafted Keith in '02. Pulford took over for Smith and drafted Seabrook, Crawford, Bolland, Bickell and Brouwer in '03 and '04.

Tallon took over right before the '05 draft and picked Hjalmarsson. Then Toews in '06 and Kane in '07 but no one else of relevance in '06, '07, '08 or '09 outside of Kruger in '09. He botched the contracts of players and was let go shortly after. Bowman took over for him.

Tallon screwed up his early years in Chicago. After the lockout Tallon signed Cullimore, Lapointe and Khabibulin. He saw that Tampa (who had just won the Cup) had a lot of grinders contribute so he targeted them in free agency. The team lacked high end talent along with terrible coaching and was garbage for a couple more seasons. Being awful in 05-06 and 06-07 landed us Toews and Kane. The team turns the corner in Toews and Kane rookie seasons in 07-08 partly because Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Bolland are turning into NHL regulars.

Because of Tallon's bad free agent signings and terrible coach hires we stunk for 2 years. We got Toews and Kane from that though. Good job to him for making the right picks...
 
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Blackhawkswincup

RIP Fugu
Jun 24, 2007
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I don't exactly know what you're trying to say?

Mike Smith drafted Keith in '02. Pulford took over for Smith and drafted Seabrook, Crawford, Bolland, Bickell and Brouwer in '03 and '04.


Tallon took over right before the '05 draft and picked Hjalmarsson. Then Toews in '06 and Kane in '07 but no one else of relevance in '06, '07, '08 or '09 outside of Kruger in '09. He botched the contracts of players and was let go shortly after. Bowman took over for him.

Tallon screwed up his early years in Chicago. After the lockout Tallon signed Cullimore, Lapointe and Khabibulin. He saw that Tampa (who had just won the Cup) had a lot of grinders contribute so he targeted them in free agency. The team lacked high end talent along with terrible coaching and was garbage for a couple more seasons. Being awful in 05-06 and 06-07 landed us Toews and Kane. The team turns the corner in Toews and Kane rookie seasons in 07-08 partly because Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Bolland are turning into NHL regulars.

Because of Tallon's bad free agent signings and terrible coach hires we stunk for 2 years. We got Toews and Kane from that though. Good job to him for making the right picks...

2003 Smith was still GM when Seabrook, Crawford and Byfuglien were drafted. He was fired in October of 2003 after he and Pulford got into it one final time about Brian Sutter and Pulford got permission to fire him.

Sutter was not popular with players and several had agents go to Smith with issues which further enraged Pulford.

Smith 2002 and 2003 drafts were also heavily criticized by Pulford as awful drafts when he fired Smith

Pulford also made sure to muddy up Smith's name around league after he was fired

How Byfuglien was picked is amusing

There are no sure things in the later rounds of the NHL draft. Back in 2003, there were nine rounds.

“When you get down to the seventh, eighth, ninth round, they’re all maybes,” Smith says. “There’s something you like about them, but not much, otherwise you’d take them earlier.”

Byfuglien, a burly defenseman from Minnesota playing in Prince George, was on the Blackhawks’ radar. In pre-draft discussions, Blackhawks director of player development Marshall Johnston and western scout Bruce Franklin were at odds over Big Buff. Smith vividly recalls the debate.

Franklin: “He’s so f***ing fat, he can’t f***ing play.”

Johnston: “I don’t give a f*** how fat he is, he can f***ing play.”

Smith told them he’d consider taking him as a late-round flyer, and the Blackhawks wound up grabbing him in the now non-existent eighth round. Less than a week later, at prospect camp, Smith was thumbing through all the shirtless photos of all the players taken during their fitness tests as a way of evaluating body types and potential growth.

“Oh, my God, this guy is fat,” Smith recalls saying to no one in particular.
 
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Space umpire

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I stand corrected.

Point is, Tallon had nothing to do with the young players pre Hjalmarsson.
But you blame Tallon for not getting the QO’s out in time forcing the overpayment to 4 players (screwing the future cap).
It’s common knowledge that team capologist (Stan Bowman) thought they had to be sent on 7/1 when the reality was they had to be sent before 7/1.
Tallon took the hit with his “the buck stops here” interview but it was Bowman who screwed up.
 
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ClydeLee

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Mar 23, 2012
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But you blame Tallon for not getting the QO’s out in time forcing the overpayment to 4 players (screwing the future cap).
It’s common knowledge that team capologist (Stan Bowman) thought they had to be sent on 7/1 when the reality was they had to be sent before 7/1.
Tallon took the hit with his “the buck stops here” interview but it was Bowman who screwed up.
It's pretty commonly assumed. I don't think anything is confirmed in anyway other than like Sam Fels repeating it over and over and over.

That's like saying outlandish rumors of that era were true because they were a rumor. Like Kim Johnsson sleeping with some players wives instead of, he got a serious concussion and never played again.
 
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Wally1112pac

Three Year Rebuild lol
Jul 10, 2019
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But you blame Tallon for not getting the QO’s out in time forcing the overpayment to 4 players (screwing the future cap).
It’s common knowledge that team capologist (Stan Bowman) thought they had to be sent on 7/1 when the reality was they had to be sent before 7/1.
Tallon took the hit with his “the buck stops here” interview but it was Bowman who screwed up.

Yes.

Tallon was the GM at the time the contracts went out. If his "capologist" got the date wrong, Tallon shouldn't have. He wasn't a 1st year GM at the time.

As the GM it's his responsibility to oversee these things. Tallon admitted that with "the buck stops here" comment.
 

giza

Registered User
Jul 19, 2011
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Losing both Toews and Domi at the dot is going to hurt....Domi really impressed last year there ....I think the Hawks physicality ----especially at the forward position would be pretty impressive adding Domi to the team. The depth of the forwards would be quite solid.
 

Wally1112pac

Three Year Rebuild lol
Jul 10, 2019
1,206
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Losing both Toews and Domi at the dot is going to hurt....Domi really impressed last year there ....I think the Hawks physicality ----especially at the forward position would be pretty impressive adding Domi to the team. The depth of the forwards would be quite solid.

Indeed.

We will be dog food at face offs next season.

We will however be scoring more greasy goals with the additions of Foligno and Perry.
 
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Space umpire

Registered User
Nov 15, 2018
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Yes.

Tallon was the GM at the time the contracts went out. If his "capologist" got the date wrong, Tallon shouldn't have. He wasn't a 1st year GM at the time.

As the GM it's his responsibility to oversee these things. Tallon admitted that with "the buck stops here" comment.
Yes, he took the hit. … but it wasn’t his error.
Ironically the guy who made the error was given his job.

I’m not sure what you do but if my boss asks me if I’m going to get a task done timely and I tell her “yes”, she believes me.
In the hockey world there is a lot going on around 7/1. Many people are given tasks. The information is available. You count on your people to do their jobs.
Also note Bowman wasn’t necessarily Tallon’s pick. His Papa and McDonough had a close relationship.
Personally, I thought it was huge of Tallon to make the statement. Though Bowman should have simply been fired by Tallon I’m not sure with Scotty and McD above him he had that power.
 

hockeydoug

Registered User
May 26, 2012
3,889
392
I don't exactly know what you're trying to say?

Mike Smith drafted Keith in '02. Pulford took over for Smith and drafted Seabrook, Crawford, Bolland, Bickell and Brouwer in '03 and '04.

Tallon took over right before the '05 draft and picked Hjalmarsson. Then Toews in '06 and Kane in '07 but no one else of relevance in '06, '07, '08 or '09 outside of Kruger in '09. He botched the contracts of players and was let go shortly after. Bowman took over for him.

Tallon screwed up his early years in Chicago. After the lockout Tallon signed Cullimore, Lapointe and Khabibulin. He saw that Tampa (who had just won the Cup) had a lot of grinders contribute so he targeted them in free agency. The team lacked high end talent along with terrible coaching and was garbage for a couple more seasons. Being awful in 05-06 and 06-07 landed us Toews and Kane. The team turns the corner in Toews and Kane rookie seasons in 07-08 partly because Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Bolland are turning into NHL regulars.

Because of Tallon's bad free agent signings and terrible coach hires we stunk for 2 years. We got Toews and Kane from that though. Good job to him for making the right picks...
Answering the question, I'm saying the "patience" thing is sometimes misguided.
The Yzerplan is year after year of underwhelming returns because of his patience now. In 24' he's going to be spending big on 2 more players without having achieved anything. Toronto would be better off having hit the gas right when they drafted Matthews or the years after because of how they decided to spend. Buffalo and PHI went too fast. CGY kept changing speeds.

I think every franchise has unique circumstances and I think it's premature or foolish to say slow or fast is better. Most of the "overipening" or "patience" preferences tend to overlook too many important details related to how teams have to operate under the CBA. The last thing gms should do is try to time extensions, an that would have to be an important part of the "patience" approach.

Looks pretty projecting into the future but it's not how things play out with rare exception
 
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