Hawks-Oilers What Happened Since 2008?

[La Bamba]

Yes I remember those guys looking very good early in their careers but for some reason just not panning out. I figured with the help of the high draft picks things would turn around, but the growth curve doesn't seem to be there as of yet.

Toews was obviously a very good and well rounded player when he came into the league, Kane was dynamic offensively but was very much a perimeter player and didn't play much defense early. Now, he'll go to the tough spots, and has become a passable defensive player, which a lot of people have given credit to Coach Q for bringing that out of him. Has coaching been pretty much a failure since '08?

Pretty much after MacT was fired, the Oilers haven't been able to find a good coach. He took a lot of heat but Horcoff, Hemsky, Stoll, Pisani and many other players that didn't have much draft pedigree were turned into solid players.

Coaching was a huge problem and could possibly be the reason why the Oilers & their previous young guns didn't pan out.

 

[Comrade Blunderbore]

It's interesting, here's how much "luck" gets involved. From '97 to '08, the Hawks made the playoffs one time. And we had the worst owner in professional sports old man Bill Wirtz. I have no doubt the team would've stayed in the dumps, but, and it's horrible to say this, but it's the truth, when he died, and he son took over, things did a complete 180. It sure didn't take long after we had competent management, so maybe something can happen on that front?

last i checked, Katz is going pretty strong, and his curly plump offspring doesn't exactly look like a world beater as well.

 

[hawksfan79]

The Hawks were able to draft and develop core players at both forward and defense who were ready to be competitive around the same time.

The Hawks got Quenneville while the Oiler have had poor coaching and don't have a coach right now who will take them to a new level - they need someone experienced

THe other thing that doesn't really get discussed but that I think had a big impact was the death of Bill Wirtz and Rocky Wirtz taking over as owner. Before Rocky took over it was to the point where the Hawks were a non-entity on the Chicago sports scene...their home games weren't even televised. Rocky wanted to bring the team back to legitimacy and was willing to do what it took to do that. He didn't have the luxury of sitting there dismissively saying he was only concerned with the paying customer - lol he didn't have many of them. There was a huge motivation to turn the team competitive to help drag it out of the wilderness. The Oiler management doesn't have that same pressure - what are the consequences to Katz if the team keeps losing? None! As long as the paying, tier 1, fans are around management is happy.

Absolutely right, as morbid to say this as it is, it took old man Wirtz dying to turn the franchise around, what will be that moment for the Oilers?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

 

[Oil80]

Dubnyk never looked like a starter. Always let in soft goals, not sometimes, every game

 

[AlowlyMcOilersfan]

yeah, should have kept Glencross too

 

[Replacement*]

Gagner, Cogliano and Nilsson who were suppose to be the equivalent of the Hawk's Kane & Toews didn't exactly pan out...

Gagner didn't grow at all offensively, Cogliano regressed offensively, Nilsson was a bust, Hemsky, Souray & Visnovsky couln't stay healthy, Gilbert & Gresbeshkov ended up being terrible.


Everyone was expecting Gagner, Cogliano, Nilsson to be kinda like what RNH, Hall & Eberle are but never happened.

In summary, guys who were supposed to be the franchise cornerstones didn't pan out like we thought they would.

The bolded is seriously off. c'mon.

Nillson and Cogs were flash in a pan and I knew it. There was a whole lot of what i call happenchance going on there. Similar to the improbability drive Flames were riding till as little as a weak ago.

The kidline had no worries, no expectations, hockey was fun and they put together a string with nothing on the line. Try doing that as a go to guy getting line matching, checking attention, and more focus. it gets much harder to even sustain numbers.

Case in point Eberles 34goals, 74 pts. it'll never happen again.

To his credit Gagner has at least sustained his production while drawing more checking, expectation, pressure.

 

[Replacement*]

Absolutely right, as morbid to say this as it is, it took old man Wirtz dying to turn the franchise around, what will be that moment for the Oilers?

This here question won't lead anywhere good in these parts..

just saying..

 

[Wheathead]

Steve Tambellini.

/end thread.

 

[hawksfan79]

The bolded is seriously off. c'mon.

Nillson and Cogs were flash in a pan and I knew it. There was a whole lot of what i call happenchance going on there. Similar to the improbability drive Flames were riding till as little as a weak ago.

The kidline had no worries, no expectations, hockey was fun and they put together a string with nothing on the line. Try doing that as a go to guy getting line matching, checking attention, and more focus. it gets much harder to even sustain numbers.

Case in point Eberles 34goals, 74 pts. it'll never happen again.

To his credit Gagner has at least sustained his production while drawing more checking, expectation, pressure.

Interesting point you bring up, so in the subsequent seasons, those young players just didn't produce with more on the line, were they not as good as it seemed like they were to begin with? I think both teams were on a simlar plane, but the Hawks took off with more pressure and expectations while the Oilers didn't, and I couldn't figure out why.

 

[hawksfan79]

This here question won't lead anywhere good in these parts..

just saying..

Ha! Fair enough lol I know you guys don't need my empathy, but as a fan who has followed some truly crappy franchises with seemingly no hope around the horizon, it always seems like it will take something dramatic to turn it around.

 

[Replacement*]

Interesting point you bring up, so in the subsequent seasons, those young players just didn't produce with more on the line, were they not as good as it seemed like they were to begin with? I think both teams were on a simlar plane, but the Hawks took off with more pressure and expectations while the Oilers didn't, and I couldn't figure out why.

Kane and Toews were always going to be some pretty good players, they were premier prospects. Gagner not quite in that light. Cogs and Nillson aren't even in the same conversation really and not too much surprise.

tbh I was annoyed a little that the kid line effectively shoved Stoll, Torres off the map. A whole lot more jam in those boys. I like Gagner, but never had any use for cogs and Nillson.
Nillson by his own accounts played atypically well that year and explained that he was embarassed how much effort the kids put up and he felt he should try to match. It was the only time he was motivated.

 

[Comrade Blunderbore]

Ha! Fair enough lol I know you guys don't need my empathy, but as a fan who has followed some truly crappy franchises with seemingly no hope around the horizon, it always seems like it will take something dramatic to turn it around.

do you think Rocky would go for major changes if the Hawks were still drawing full arena at the point of his dad having kicked the bucket? because Oilers always get the arena sold out however terrible the on-ice showing is...

 

[Replacement*]

Ha! Fair enough lol I know you guys don't need my empathy, but as a fan who has followed some truly crappy franchises with seemingly no hope around the horizon, it always seems like it will take something dramatic to turn it around.

ha, you missed I was talking respective owners with that..

I remember lots of conversations with Hawks fans a dozen years ago before these boards came to be. Usually on usenet newsgroups. Always enjoyed speaking with hawks fans back then and did lots of commiserating with them as well. Good to see you guys have had something to cheer for again.

Really good hockey fans imo in Chicago. Put up with a lot.

 

[hawksfan79]

do you think Rocky would go for major changes if the Hawks were still drawing full arena at the point of his dad having kicked the bucket? because Oilers always get the arena sold out however terrible the on-ice showing is...

Good question,

It's hard to say, but the reason why I think things still might have changed is that he has a much more customer friendly, marketing oriented view of the team vs. just solely selling out the stadium. First was obviously putting home games on tv, then welcoming back old Hawks alumni who were ostracized by the old administration, bringing back the popular play by play guy Pat Foley who was fired under the old administration, bringing in the Cubs marketing guru who helped the team's marketing which was woefully outdated. Rocky cares about how the team is perceived in the city and wants to be a winner, so we're lucky to have an owner who cares and is competent.

 

[Del Preston]

I remember back in 2008 when the Hawks and Oilers had that great game late in the season that you guys won at the United Center which kept the Hawks out of the playoffs

I found the highlights. Just a crazy back-and-forth game.



This was the second game of Cogliano's three game OT winner streak.

 

[hawksfan79]

I found the highlights. Just a crazy back-and-forth game.



This was the second game of Cogliano's three game OT winner streak.

Yeah that was a hell of a game, that's for sure!

 

[CB420]

I found the highlights. Just a crazy back-and-forth game.



This was the second game of Cogliano's three game OT winner streak.

Wow, that seems like an eternity ago, huh? It was only 5 years ago. I remember going to the Joey Moss game that preseason and the hope around the club that year was high. As usual. Wasen't Anson Carter invited to training camp that season? I believe. Wow the last 5 years have been a blur...

Seabrook and Keith are really the 2 essential peices that have elevated the Hawks rebuild to an elite level within that timespan. Oilers have had no Defensive duo compareable to that. Pronger yeah, but a) We never drafted him like Seabrook and Keith b) The dude only played one season in copper and blue then bailed.

The Bowmans hockey intelligence and overall player management has been far superior than %85 of the league. Dale Tallon gets alot of credit of course, assembling, and putting together key peices. Byfuglien turned out big for them, unexpectantly. Except for this season, is he still goaless, Wtf? I took him in my hockey pool

I remember going to a Philadelphia Flyers game when they came to town one year, back when Sharp was playing for the Flyers. He caught my attention in some way, and I've always liked the way hes played since then. That must have been back before the lockout now really, looking back on it. Dudes been incredible for them, what an underrated player, even still. Sharp I think will make the Canadian Olympic team this year. 2 time Cup winner, and Allstar game MVP, and he still probably doesnt get enough respect as an elite player around the league. I think that trade panned out for Eric Meloche and Matt Ellison, Elli-who?

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Absolutely right, as morbid to say this as it is, it took old man Wirtz dying to turn the franchise around, what will be that moment for the Oilers?

Sabotaging Katz's brand new $50M Bombardier Global Express XRS jet he had delivered to YEG a few months ago when he, MacTavish, Lowe, Smith and Buchberger are on it so we can rid this franchise of all the incompetence and book-boys club in one fell swoop.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Oilers could really use Horcoff in his prime, Stoll, Torres, Glencross and a Staios in his prime on this team

 

[Joey Moss]

Let's just take a look at our busts:

Nilsson
Cogliano
Schremp
Omark
O'Sullivan
Gilbert
Chorney
O'Marra
Thoresen

Then we have the tier that never lived up to expectations:

Gagner
Smid
Horcoff
Jones
Grebeshkov
Cole

And of course, the ones that management pissed away:

Glencross
Visnovsky
Stoll
Greene
Pitkanen
Brodziak
Smid

There's probably more. But we can start there. It's becoming painfully obvious that this organization has a severe delusion when it comes to asset management. They cannot for the life of them evaluate players' worth. And it's also becoming very obvious that they have no idea how to develop players. Yakupov being the most high profile example of that.

This basically explains it all.

 

[Psychoil]

I found the highlights. Just a crazy back-and-forth game.



This was the second game of Cogliano's three game OT winner streak.

What game. It looked like we had so much passion and hard work in our game. That team is 1000x better than the one we have today