Have the Sharks made enough changes to the roster?

[Led Zappa]

I think the guy I'm interested in a lot this season is Hertl. Considering he was healthy throughout the year, he wasn't the guy we hoped he would be. Maybe it was lingering issues with the legs but I am curious to know if he got his conditioning up this summer and is back to being the guy who looked fast and dangerous in his first year. I'm not expecting a 4 goal repeat performance, but I would like to see Hertl be at least a 20-25 goal scorer.

I also hope the new guys fit in nicely and watching Jones be that #1 starter will be interesting as the season progresses.

End of season injury report said Hertl had a knee injury. It didn't say how long or which knee, so we don't really know how much it affected him.

He looked good in the strengthening run in the sand FB post he just put up though. Hopefully we see some real growth from him this year.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

End of season injury report said Hertl had a knee injury. It didn't say how long or which knee, so we don't really know how much it affected him.

He looked good in the strengthening run in the sand FB post he just put up though. Hopefully we see some real growth from him this year.

I guess when I say Healthy, I mean the number of games played since the Brown hit. I don't recall him being "injured" last season, just almost non-existent most games.

 

[Painful Quandary]

A lot of it depends on whether Jones can be an average to above average starter (which I am optimistic about) and if DeBoer can properly use the roster. The roster itself is actually pretty decent; still could use a few more depth moves.

I also think this extended offseason is probably a plus as well.

 

[OrrNumber4]

If Raffi can come back, that would be a huge bonus. Obviously Hertl, Nieto, and Tierney need to step up and Marleau needs to rebound. But those things seem reasonably certain to me.

Plenty of times, players with bad years continue to trend downwards. Maybe Nieto/Hertl's aberrative years were their first years...maybe age has caught up to Marleau.

In particular, I think that Nieto's train has been a little overhyped. Hertl clearly has very good potential. Tierney is almost universally considered to have 2nd-line potential. But Nieto...outside of some Shark-biased posters on the internet, it seems like most have him pegged as a 30-point, third-line winger...and that in his prime. His 2015 season showed a lot more of that than this top-six, 20-goal winger some are hoping he can become...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

A lot of it depends on whether Jones can be an average to above average starter (which I am optimistic about) and if DeBoer can properly use the roster. The roster itself is actually pretty decent; still could use a few more depth moves.

I also think this extended offseason is probably a plus as well.

The goaltending will depend on how the defense plays, plain and simple. Jones is going to look like Niemi last year if Jones gets the same type of defensive effort and execution that Niemi got from the team last year.

The team doesn't need a franchise goalie and their year doesn't depend on Jones. It depends on their defense. You're not going to win with a PK like they had last year and it infected their play five on five too. If DeBoer canfix the defense, they will have a good year.

 

[Mattb124]

As many have hit on, it is primarily going to come down to DeBoer's system and Jones' play. If the system works (and I have every reason to think it should be better, if only because of the change) and Jones can outplay the Niemi of last year, we are a play-off team. I don't have any particular concerns about our skaters.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Plenty of times, players with bad years continue to trend downwards. Maybe Nieto/Hertl's aberrative years were their first years...maybe age has caught up to Marleau.

In particular, I think that Nieto's train has been a little overhyped. Hertl clearly has very good potential. Tierney is almost universally considered to have 2nd-line potential. But Nieto...outside of some Shark-biased posters on the internet, it seems like most have him pegged as a 30-point, third-line winger...and that in his prime. His 2015 season showed a lot more of that than this top-six, 20-goal winger some are hoping he can become...

I think Nieto spends his career as an excellent speedy defensive playmaking winger who puts up awesome possession numbers and 15-25-40 most seasons and kills penalties at a high level. That would make him a low-end 2nd line winger.

Last season wasn't great for him, but I see no reason he can't play like his rookie season. He won't be the 70 point top liner that a lot of this board was ready to crown him as after a hot end to last year, but I don't think 50 points is out of the question completely, especially if he can improve his shot a lot.

 

[thasanjoseshawksdood*]

Enough for ol Wilson to keep his job.

 

[T0uGh C0oki3]

Enough for ol Wilson to keep his job.

He could have done nothing and still manage to keep his job.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Let's be honest:

The season will come down to if the team is right that Jones is a legit #1 goalie right now.

 

[Led Zappa]

Let's be honest:

The season will come down to if the team is right that Jones is a legit #1 goalie right now.

I tend to agree. If he's not, the season won't live up to expectations, but other things could lead to a crappy season as well.

 

[Kcoyote3]

I am excited for Jones. If he is what we think he is, then we've acquired a goalie for the team for the next 10 years.

He's very young, and like Tierney, Mueller, Hertl, Nieto, Goldobin, Roy, Bergman, Meier, Labanc, he's going to make us a better team once Thornton and Marleau are gone.

Still have a midrange core in Vlasic, Burns, Pavelski, Couture.

Pretty exciting for right now and for the future. More than likely Joe and Patty leave as rentals on their last contract year, adding more to the future of the team.

It's going to take awhile, but with shrewd pickups, I think we can compete again with a new core.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Let's be honest:

The season will come down to if the team is right that Jones is a legit #1 goalie right now.

Disagree completely.

 

[FSS]

Disagree completely.

I disagree as well, if there's a bad defense, I don't care how good the goalie is...and we had a bad defense last year. Defense is also not just the defensemen alone (that should be obvious), it also means the forwards playing defense & back-checking.

I'm very happy with the off-season moves so far, I think Martin & Ward will add a lot to our team. Getting Jones was a great move, really excited to see him in net for us. I'm interested to see the new system in effect, and how the forwards who had bad years last year respond. I think we've done enough to go into this season as we stand today, we'll see how things go, see what's Torres' condition is by the trade deadline (I don't expect to see him play for us again, but I really hope to be wrong), and then hopefully make a trade that positions us for a deep Cup run.

Let's just drop the puck already!

 

[matt trick]

Disagree completely.

Is it the definition of "come down to" or Jones impact that makes you disagree?

We cannot be an elite/very good team if Jones is not a legit #1. That alone doesn't guarantee he will be at that level-I believe there is still a clear need for a top 4 d-man with offensive capabilities to compliment Burns. That said, I do believe it is the most critical piece.

If Thornton collapses or Vlasic/Burns get injured, we're screwed.

 

[LadyStanley]

More than likely Joe and Patty leave as rentals on their last contract year, adding more to the future of the team.

Those two have this season and next under contract.

Do realize that with potential expansion teams coming, you need to start considering the impact/timing of the expansion draft on your roster.

Both those guys have NMCs -- they won't move unless they want to. I'm thinking that these two would rather retire at the end of their contracts than move to another team.

 

[Hold the Pickles]

Hmmm, do NMC's cover the expansion draft?

just curious if that was a possibility. I'm sure wed protect them anyway

 

[Led Zappa]

Hmmm, do NMC's cover the expansion draft?

just curious if that was a possibility. I'm sure wed protect them anyway

From reading this thread I agree that unless we find out otherwise you would still have to protect players with NMC's. Strongest argument being that NMC's are agreements between player and team and not the league.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1773445

 

[Alwalys]

I think what the team did last year was to transition away from one of the most defensive systems in the league among strong teams to a more offense oriented, or perhaps just more balanced system like the most successful teams are using. That ended up exposing the defense and, specifically, Niemi who I have felt from day 1 the team had to play defensively to protect.

As a result they decided Niemi wasn't going to be good enough to backstop a system that had enough offense to compete, so they moved him out and bolstered defense with Martin.

Some people mistook this for a lack of defensive commitment from the forwards as compared to previous years -- i think this was by design. You can tell in the deployment numbers that they were doing things differently last year and IMO they were stress testing the team.

I don't think it should have taken a lost season to find out what they did, but maybe doug felt he had to give certain players the chance to step up.

 

[Suddenly Zyuzin]

One of Hertl/Nieto will need to show that they are top 6 material.
Marleau needs to bounce back, even if not back to a 30 goal scorer, needs to be better than he was.
Couture needs to be better.
Joe and Joe need to not drop off much.
Need one of the young guys like Tierney, Karlsson, Goldobin to break out.
Need Martin and Ward to be steady and not show a clear decline.

Stalock/Jones need to be solid.

 

[one2gamble]

I think they have made enough changes to be relevant. I dont think their D is well rounded enough to go deep and I still think they are missing some goal scoring up front.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Is it the definition of "come down to" or Jones impact that makes you disagree?

We cannot be an elite/very good team if Jones is not a legit #1. That alone doesn't guarantee he will be at that level-I believe there is still a clear need for a top 4 d-man with offensive capabilities to compliment Burns. That said, I do believe it is the most critical piece.

If Thornton collapses or Vlasic/Burns get injured, we're screwed.

Both. This team's success will not be defined by whether Jones is or isn't a legit #1. This team's success will be defined by how they fix their many defensive issues. If it isn't fixed, Jones isn't going to be much of anything and it's unrealistic to expect him to be good enough to cover up for that.

I disagree that the team can't be elite/very good without Jones being a legit #1. I don't believe goaltending is ever the basis of a team, good or bad. If Thornton or Vlasic are out for extended periods of time and the team is screwed then it still didn't come down to Martin Jones being the #1. Team defense is the #1 thing, imo, that will determine where this team goes. Jones and Stalock will play a part in that but it's not as large as people make it out to be. It doesn't completely lay at their feet.

Hmmm, do NMC's cover the expansion draft?

just curious if that was a possibility. I'm sure wed protect them anyway

It's up to the league. Expansion rules are pretty much made up on the spot for the situation.

 

[Timo Time]

Forward depth: Improved.
Defense: Vastly Improved.
Goaltending: ?
Coaching Staff: ?

 

[bigwillie]

After years and years of constantly ****ing these things up, I'm giving up this year. All I know is I'm excited to see some new faces. That is all.

 

[tahoesharksfan]

All I know is I'm excited to see some new faces.

This! Especially after last year's debacle! I'm holding high hopes there will be some entertaining hockey. Making the playoffs would just be an added bonus.

I've seen a couple of Jones' games down here in Staples and he's definitely got great potential. Hopefully he becomes the goalie everyone in the FO thinks he can be!