Have the flyers gotten soft?

[TheLegendkiller]

Yes, but....

The Flyers have spent 25 years trying to live up to the tough guy image established with the Bullies. That hasn't worked because the game has evolved to become a more skilled, offensive game.

I want a tough team (who doesn't), but it cannot come at the expense of skill. Skilled, tough players need to be drafted and developed.... things the Flyers haven't had as much ability to do because of a lack of picks.

Meh, I think its more cause of a couple things; no goalie, not enough depth, and being derailed by dynasties. I don't think it has much to do with the tough guy mentality.

 

[hckyplayer8]

Yes, but....

The Flyers have spent 25 years trying to live up to the tough guy image established with the Bullies. That hasn't worked because the game has evolved to become a more skilled, offensive game.

I want a tough team (who doesn't), but it cannot come at the expense of skill. Skilled, tough players need to be drafted and developed.... things the Flyers haven't had as much ability to do because of a lack of picks.

Correct. Our '09/'10 and '11-'12 teams were good examples of skilled, but tough to play against teams.

Both teams were simply a goalie and a goalie + D away from being favorites.

This team though, major step back mentally.

Feel that is on the coach.

 

[Rebels57]

Boston the year they won the cup had everything you wanted in terms of toughness and skill (and a great goalie)

Same with LA, especially in 2012. They were a big, heavy, relentless forechecking team with a superstar Defensemen and Goaltender.

 

[Rebels57]

Correct. Our '09/'10 and '11-'12 teams were good examples of skilled, but tough to play against teams.

Both teams were simply a goalie and a goalie + D away from being favorites.

This team though, major step back mentally.

Feel that is on the coach.

The issues with the 11-12 team had a lot to do with Laviolettes lack of adjustment too. We should not have lost 4 straight to that New Jersey team. Lavvy was like a dear in headlights trying to figure out why we had no sustained attack.

 

[GingerFetish]

Yes in a few ways sense.


Chief does not want anything out of them in fear of penalties, so they are held back a bit.

There has been less fighting over the past seasons. (In the NHL as a whole?)

The helmet rule.

4th lines are about to be REAL energy lines and not include enforcers. If a line like Raffl - PEB - Straka came together for example. 4th lines need speedy euros who can also do some grind, which can be taught. This is the future.

We aren't a heavy as forechecking team and we play a specific system that relies on being in stride with other skaters, shutting them down and overall positional IQ.

This is the correct system to instill in the upcoming years with our D pool as blossoming as ever, and it WILL pay off. It does not suit our current team now though, but that's okay. When the time comes around that our team has the talent to execute it correctly, it will be THE system to play and a dominant one.

 

[TheLegendkiller]

Yes in a few ways sense.


Chief does not want anything out of them in fear of penalties, so they are held back a bit.

There has been less fighting over the past seasons. (In the NHL as a whole?)

The helmet rule.

4th lines are about to be REAL energy lines and not include enforcers. If a line like Raffl - PEB - Straka came together for example. 4th lines need speedy euros who can also do some grind, which can be taught. This is the future.

We aren't a heavy as forechecking team and we play a specific system that relies on being in stride with other skaters, shutting them down and overall positional IQ.

This is the correct system to instill in the upcoming years with our D pool as blossoming as ever, and it WILL pay off. It does not suit our current team now though, but that's okay. When the time comes around that our team has the talent to execute it correctly, it will be THE system to play and a dominant one.

No team will be successful with whatever system Berube instills. They still need to get in other team's ****.

 

[gto64dr]

This is on the coaching staff. It needs to be changed now. The players are losing their will.

 

[renberg]

There was an article on a site yesterday pusing Guy Boucher as coach for the Flyers. The author basically stated that the team has tuned out Berube.

 

[deadhead]

This team would tune out any coach, half the roster knows it won't be here in a year or two, they're not going to make the playoffs, so how would you motivate them?

What you're seeing is an ugly transition year, Sixers went through this for a couple years until Hinkie cleared house, Eagles in 2012, etc. When a team is in limbo, neither competitive nor rebuilding, the players are at sea.

Sure, bring a new coach who'll yell at them, they'll respond for a few weeks, then sink back into the malaise. The solution is simple, but will take two years, dump the mediocre veterans and bring in hungry kids and FAs happy for an opportunity to play on a regular basis. You saw what happened to Vinnie when he got benched? But you can't bench half the team, and they don't have the organizational depth to replace underachievers right now.

 

[Domino666]

Soft, yes absolutely, Berube has them all on a short leash which is ok if the PK didn't suck something awful, and speaking about the PK that too is worrisome how bad it is this year another strike against the coaching staff, the lack of heart is sad, when G gets railroaded by Buff, and B.Schenn attempts to hit Buff and that's it, something is wrong, I don't want a line of Jon Scott types, but more Lucic types,
First things first, the FO needs to be let go, the coaching staff needs to be replaced, hire a legit coach let him hire his guys and then build the team accordingly to the coach and his system

 

[BernieParent]

It's a difficult point to address: the playoffs are a long shot and I honestly can't say how motivated the FO would be -- Snider and his accountant notwithstanding -- about eeking in and suffering a first-round exit and ensuing mediocre pick. At the same time, no squad is pleased with consistent failure, and I believe that fiery ex-players like Hextall and Berube are even more desirous of a winning franchise. It's a contradictory position, and Hextall has repeated that he is focused on the long-term success of the team, but his blood must be boiling over how lacklustre the players routinely look.

I would want Hextall to be looking for a coach who can start to foster good strategies and habits in the team, and more importantly be a positive leader during the incorporation of rookies over the next couple of years. It's a touchy thing balancing out leaning on the team leaders while still making enough appropriate space for the rookies to play significant minutes and to grow despite the typical rookie mistakes.

In regard to "wasting" Giroux and Voracek's prime years, teams can change quickly. Let's say that during the 2016-17 season, a legit #1 Dman is potentially available via trade for one of the big 4 prospects (+ other nonprimary pieces to the line-up), and 2 others have started to play important roles on the defensive squad. That could possibly ratchet up the team's viability as a cup contender well ahead of our collective projections with the time it takes for Morin, Gostisbehere, Sanheim and Hagg to become defensive leaders. I'm not advocating this move or saying it has a high percentage chance of occurring, but just illustrating one scenario to show that surprises can happen in our careful planning.

 

[KrazyKat]

RUMOR: Bieksa + Kassian are being moved in a package. Kassian would be sort of like a Hartnell type player. Bieksa is a leader and would be an upgrade over someone like Grossmann.

Read + Del Zotto + 2nd Round Pick

for

Bieksa + Kassian + Gaunce


then move Grossmann for a 3rd/4th round pick. Maybe retain some salary. Next year?

LW C RW
Schenn - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Couturier - Raffl
Kassian - Laughton - Williams
Leier - Gaunce - Bellemare

LD RD
Morin Streit
Bieksa Coburn
Macdonald Schenn


I signed Williams the former Flyer to come and end his Career here on the 3rd line. Obviously that wont happen. I just felt like doing that.

Would you guys like something like this?

 

[ILoveStephanieBrown]

Meh, I think its more cause of a couple things; no goalie, not enough depth, and being derailed by dynasties. I don't think it has much to do with the tough guy mentality.

i agree. the whole theory that tough teams cant win in this day and age is ********. soft teams like chicago and detroit have won, so have tough teams like boston and the kings. there isn't one way to build a cup winning team.

 

[gto64dr]

Say what you will but a good coach can make a mediocre team competitive. Berube's system, whatever it is, doesn't work for whatever reasons. A bad coach will ruin the team and it's spirit. There is way more talent on this team than the way they're playing. That's on the coaching staff

 

[renberg]

there is way more talent on this team than the way they're playing. That's on the coaching staff

This. They're playing like the dregs of the league. They're better than that. Some of these guys don't belong in an O&B sweater they're such an embarrassment. There is a tradition of the Flyers being a hard working team. That's not what we are seeing on the ice this season.