Have Oiler Players Tuned Out Their Coach Again?

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

They need new players. Players that fit a system. Look at LA once again this year adding Lucic,Vinny, Schenn and now getting rid of Erhoff and not keeping Sekera, Jones etc...

The problem we have and I hope it's more because we have an unfamiliar GM, is we are afraid of losing a deal. Previous Gm's thought this way and so do a lot of fans.

Yep good players can look bad in the wrong spot or system.

Sekera looked bad in LA as a right d. Here he looks much better.

Perron looked good here, bad in Pitts and good in Anaheim.

 

[joestevens29]

I randomly assume there are a group of players that had so much success under motivational free-wheeling coaches like Krueger and Nelson and because of their playmaking skills and draft success....that they do veer off the game plan sometimes...or maybe don't really get to that 100% because they're not able to play the same sort of hockey they have in the past.

They may not be intentionally tuning out the "work harder" and system details of some of the more structured coaches but they are probably conflicted, ill-motivated or just "resenting the hockey" a little bit because of the cluster-**** of playmakers, ahl players, and strategy that has been happening.

Those guys seemed to play well when the games didn't matter. Even Eberle came out last year and said how it was easier to play because the guys knew the season was over and there was no pressure.

 

[Up the Irons]

They need new players. Players that fit a system. Look at LA once again this year adding Lucic,Vinny, Schenn and now getting rid of Erhoff and not keeping Sekera, Jones etc...

The problem we have and I hope it's more because we have an unfamiliar GM, is we are afraid of losing a deal. Previous Gm's thought this way and so do a lot of fans.

This is a HUUUUUUUGE part of the problem. That, and I do believe they (management) genuinely thought Hall, Ebs, Nuge and Schultz were a core that could contend for the cup. They were wrong (only one top tier player among them), but they did believe it. They weren't afraid to trade them, they didn't want trade to them (perhaps they still don't).

As long as they keep trying to prove they were right, by force feeding the Hall core, we are hooped. This lineup, with a few mid level moves, will contend for 30th place next year.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

This is a HUUUUUUUGE part of the problem. That, and I do believe they (management) genuinely thought Hall, Ebs, Nuge and Schultz were a core that could contend for the cup. They were wrong (only one top tier player among them), but they did believe it. They weren't afraid to trade them, they didn't want trade to them (perhaps they still don't).

As long as they keep trying to prove they were right, by force feeding the Hall core, we are hooped. This lineup, with a few mid level moves, will contend for 30th place next year.

We will see how afraid he really is in the off season and draft. Being afraid to lose a deal in season is a legit concern a lot of teams have unless they are selling off rentals.

If they are afraid in a time of year when draft picks are worth a lot players values are much less "what have you done for me lately" that's a major major problem.

Let's see if Chia can get it done.

 

[PBandJ]

If there's any tuning out going on, then start shipping out players.

Only so many coaches can fall on the sword before you start looking elsewhere.

 

[joestevens29]

We will see how afraid he really is in the off season and draft. Being afraid to lose a deal in season is a legit concern a lot of teams have unless they are selling off rentals.

If they are afraid in a time of year when draft picks are worth a lot players values are much less "what have you done for me lately" that's a major major problem.

Let's see if Chia can get it done.

I don't think Chia is going to end up the same way Mact and Tambo were. I mean we've already seen him waive guys on contracts that in the past would've guaranteed those players a roster spot.

Just think he wanted himself and TM to identify what they like and dislike about certain guys and then the big part of it is just waiting. A lot of the guys we want to target simply aren't available at this time of year.

 

[HotToddy75]

My theory these days is this:

For 5 years we've thought the goalies were an issue. Several goalies were auditioned, all had their sv% plummet.

For 5 years we've thought the defense was ultra weak. Oodles of dmen have been auditioned, all have seen their +/- and GA60 plummet.

I've concluded that the 'core' has an attitude problem and are refusing to consistently play within a system that will let the goalies and dmen do their jobs as they should.

I'd even go so far as to say Schultz has been hung out to dry to some degree because the forwards around him are inept.

Specifically, I believe that the 3rd line has been this way, and then rotating individual culprits on the other lines.

It's like a big chess game. You see the dmen and goalies getting hung out to dry, but it was the move 3 steps earlier that created the check-mate situation.

TL;DR The forwards defensive acumen is to blame for all of this.

 

[Frank the Tank]

I've posted this before; however, I've never read anything that so closely resembles the situation Lowe & friends put Eberle, Hall, and RNH into with the Oilers:

It’s the nightmare scenario for any modern basketball star — jump to the NBA after one college season, land on a few lottery teams, never meet the right veteran teammate, never play for the right coach. We pay them like franchise players before they’re ready, and we expect them to magically evolve into leaders by watching a few dozen sports movies or getting advice from their buddies from home. Too many times, they end up like Kevin Love did: mired for six solid years in the wrong situation, learning all the wrong lessons on the wrong team. And then we wonder why they can’t lead a mediocre team to the playoffs. They can’t win, and they can’t win.

 

[Halibut]

My theory these days is this:

For 5 years we've thought the goalies were an issue. Several goalies were auditioned, all had their sv% plummet.

For 5 years we've thought the defense was ultra weak. Oodles of dmen have been auditioned, all have seen their +/- and GA60 plummet.

I've concluded that the 'core' has an attitude problem and are refusing to consistently play within a system that will let the goalies and dmen do their jobs as they should.

I'd even go so far as to say Schultz has been hung out to dry to some degree because the forwards around him are inept.

Specifically, I believe that the 3rd line has been this way, and then rotating individual culprits on the other lines.

It's like a big chess game. You see the dmen and goalies getting hung out to dry, but it was the move 3 steps earlier that created the check-mate situation.

TL;DR The forwards defensive acumen is to blame for all of this.

I think you are using some faulty logic there. Look at who we've had on defence and where they've been forced to play here. Look at where they end up once they leave here. It's always lower down the depth chart than we were playing them with much better defencemen ahead of and around them to cushion them.

Petry left here as one of our best defencemen. He's second pair in Montreal with at least two better dmen on the team.

Smid left here after being considered one of our best guys and playing top pair for a long time. He's barely 3rd pair in Calgary.

Gilbert was a top guy here for a bit , third pair after he left here.

Marincin people were amazed at and thought he'd be in our top 4, now barely cracks the Leafs roster.

On and on it goes. We overrate what we have on defence, including Shultz, and bring in old overrated players to replace them i.e. Ference and Nikitin.

It amazes me that anyone thinks our problems up front are even worth considering before we fix our d.

 

[joestevens29]

I think you are using some faulty logic there. Look at who we've had on defence and where they've been forced to play here. Look at where they end up once they leave here. It's always lower down the depth chart than we were playing them with much better defencemen ahead of and around them to cushion them.

Petry left here as one of our best defencemen. He's second pair in Montreal with at least two better dmen on the team.

Smid left here after being considered one of our best guys and playing top pair for a long time. He's barely 3rd pair in Calgary.

Gilbert was a top guy here for a bit , third pair after he left here.

Marincin people were amazed at and thought he'd be in our top 4, now barely cracks the Leafs roster.

On and on it goes. We overrate what we have on defence, including Shultz, and bring in old overrated players to replace them i.e. Ference and Nikitin.

It amazes me that anyone thinks our problems up front are even worth considering before we fix our d.

In all fairness when Smid left he was being outplayed by rookies. He was no where near the good Smid that we saw.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

I think you are using some faulty logic there. Look at who we've had on defence and where they've been forced to play here. Look at where they end up once they leave here. It's always lower down the depth chart than we were playing them with much better defencemen ahead of and around them to cushion them.

Petry left here as one of our best defencemen. He's second pair in Montreal with at least two better dmen on the team.

Smid left here after being considered one of our best guys and playing top pair for a long time. He's barely 3rd pair in Calgary.

Gilbert was a top guy here for a bit , third pair after he left here.

Marincin people were amazed at and thought he'd be in our top 4, now barely cracks the Leafs roster.

On and on it goes. We overrate what we have on defence, including Shultz, and bring in old overrated players to replace them i.e. Ference and Nikitin.

It amazes me that anyone thinks our problems up front are even worth considering before we fix our d.

Our defense being rough exposes our forwards deficiencies more then should be shown.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Our defense being rough exposes our forwards deficiencies more then should be shown.

I agree about the defense not helping matters. At the same time, it is almost like the forwards need a skilled player, who also knows how win board battles in the dressing room and at practice to demonstrate to certain players how effective a skill player that is strong along the boards can be in this league. If Hossa didn't have that albatross of a contract (and also the cap recapture penalties make it so Chicago will never risk trading him), I would love to bring him in at the twilight of his career.

The good news is McDavid is already leading by example. He tore apart the Leafs along the boards on numerous occasions. It started to rub off on Eberle and hopefully the other guys. Draisaitl also can win board battles (his recent slump aside).

 

[Doc Scurlock]

Yep good players can look bad in the wrong spot or system.

Sekera looked bad in LA as a right d. Here he looks much better.

Perron looked good here, bad in Pitts and good in Anaheim.

And that has also been why we've essentially sucked for so long. Every year some team won the Stanley Cup, Lowe and MacT or whoever our GM at the time was like that's the model we have to follow. That's fine but you can't shake it up every year. One year we're going to be like Detroit, next year lets be like Chicago, oh, look LA won so lets acquire a bunch of big guys and be like them.

Pick a plan and stick with it. Hopefully, under Chiarelli we're going to have that vision this time and I don't see him as a guy who will let others meddle with his plans.