Has your opinion of Jim Benning changed?

[WetcoastOrca]

I agree that he prolonged the rebuild by trying to retool on the fly when it was clear that couldn’t work. Hard to say how much of that was marching orders from a meddling owner but Benning still should wear that imo as he’s the guy in charge.
But drafting Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes without a top three pick is pretty elite drafting in those years. Especially picking up a top center and D which are the cornerstones of any team. And then adding Miller and Pearson in the past year as well.

I’m not sold that he can take the team to the elite contender status but he has built a competitive team with a lot of the key pieces in place. And he’s done it without a top three pick.

When I look around the NHL I’m not sure that I can find more than a handful of GMs who have done a better job. He’s kind of in a group with a bunch of GMs who are middle of the pack. And then there are the terrible ones.

 

[GOilers88]

I agree that he prolonged the rebuild by trying to retool on the fly when it was clear that couldn’t work. Hard to say how much of that was marching orders from a meddling owner but Benning still should wear that imo as he’s the guy in charge.
But drafting Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes without a top three pick is pretty elite drafting in those years. Especially picking up a top center and D which are the cornerstones of any team. And then adding Miller and Pearson in the past year as well.

I’m not sold that he can take the team to the elite contender status but he has built a competitive team with a lot of the key pieces in place. And he’s done it without a top three pick.

I think this deserves more credit than is given. HF is famous for touting the "you need a top 2 pick to properly rebuild" bullshit.

I'm pretty sure the Aquillini's wanted the team to try and remain competitive while the Sedins were still playing. They've been rebuilding for a few seasons and are on the brink of being a post season team again. Personally, I think that's pretty damn good. I defy anyone to show me any team in the league without at least one or two "bad" contracts over their GM's tenure.

 

[Luminiferous]

Never had much of an opinion of him. Withholding judgement. Looking forward to what happens with his team.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

I have slightly more faith in his pro scouting and drafting, but he has still failed as a GM in Vancouver in rebuilding this team.

All you need to do is look at the assets he's converted and you can see how much value has been lost.

 

[hellstick]

The entry draft has worked out. But there's so many stories of ineptitude that went on behind the scenes. I think my favourite was the rumor that the league had to go in and help the Canucks get cap compliant. Or maybe the tampering fine awarded to one Mr Benning over Subban/Stamkos.

The struggle for Benning is the cap. I don't know how we're going to find room to re-up Markstrom while also being diligent enough to save space for Pettersson and Hughes the year after.

 

[Dump Itch]

A few lucky ones. Just because miller has turned out well doesn't mean tampa could have gotten anywhere close to that offer from anywhere else. Tampa was stuck due to cap and JT Miller was 26 coming off a down year. Most people were expecting a 2nd rounder to get it done, but this was 1st+3rd. Overpaying and getting lucky doesn't mean he isn't **** at trading.

How do you determine if someone is lucky or not? Not defending Benning but let's be honest, anything he does good, you'll say it's lucky. Anything that's "bad" is all on Benning.

 

[EXTRAS]

How do you determine if someone is lucky or not? Not defending Benning but let's be honest, anything he does good, you'll say it's lucky. Anything that's "bad" is all on Benning.

"Lets be honest" - no, if I thought it was a good value trade at the time I'd have said so. I don't dislike benning as a gm just for the heck of it. I think he's a poor gm. We haven't even paid most of our young elite players their first contracts of size yet and we are all ready cap crunched.

 

[canuckking1]

I find it hard to believe that he knew JT Miller was all of the sudden going to score 76 points.

I'm not one to defend benning but the two-season Prior Miller had 56 and then 58 points. In Bennings mind, he probably saw a versatile 60 point winger/center.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

An NHL GM has more to do than just being good at drafting and trading. End of the day, you look at the end product. I'm not sold of Vancouver being built to be a contender nor am I convinced they have the right pieces to become one. Their rebuild was too half efforted and it sucks for Canuck fans because they have the right pieces in some places (down the middle, Hughes) but not enough of them (where's their elite winger?) to make noise.

For that reason, no I'm not convinced. I'm convinced he got lucky not good.

Youre not convinced they are built to be a contender in the future or have the pieces to become one?

Having 3 consecutive Calder Finalist doesnt convince you? What will?

Elite winger? thats like the least important position on a team. but Canucks have Boeser and then prospects like Podkilzon and Hoglander.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

I see some posters are still obsessed with the term "rebuild"

To me a rebuild isnt trading every veteran or decent player you have for magic beans of picks and prospects. There is something to be said about surrounding your young core so the dont get their butt kicked every night and ruin any confidence or growth they could be having. Its also not allowing your youth to grow into a losing culture then expect them to all of a sudden magically be able to win when the rebuild is over.

Yes the Canucks didnt do a full tear down, how could they? they had 2 hall-of -famers on the team that had never won the cup. They wanted to give them that opportunity to do so.

Im comfortable with Benning as the GM. His Drafting is elite and his trading is average and getting better. He has work to do with his signings but he is a way different GM from what he was when the Twins were on the team and he was under different marching orders.

 

[GodPucker]

Youre not convinced they are built to be a contender in the future or have the pieces to become one?

Having 3 consecutive Calder Finalist doesnt convince you? What will?

Elite winger? thats like the least important position on a team. but Canucks have Boeser and then prospects like Podkilzon and Hoglander.

Nail Yakupov was a Calder finalist and robbed of it. Ep40 has regressed this year. A lot of it depends on what he does next year and what is ceiling is.I do not see true elite talent, a lot of teams don't have it, to be a cup contender.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Because you put this on the main boards as though most fans have an opinion about the Canucks GM....

I clicked the thread because I had no idea who he was... which I suspect is pretty common if you aren't Canadian...

lol just because you arent aware of who Jim Benning is doesnt mean Non Canadians are as well. Dont paint everyone with the same brush as your level of hockey knowledge. Its an insult to other non Canadian hockey fan bases.

 

[dKs89]

What is your point? Rooting for your team to suck is pathetic. I don't give a **** what team you cheer for. That makes you as far from a fan as possible.

Watch out, might upset those that participate in the tank thread. They are after all, self-proclaimed “intellectuals” that “know better” and “want more” than those ridiculous casuals that support the team and the players!!

Those same “intellectuals” will go to the ends of the earth to try to make you believe that Benning signing bottom six players was “a desperate attempt” to keep them competitive. Cause having vets to insulate kids is horrible. As you pointed out, just drafting high and relying on kids had worked out well for your team, and the Sabres. Super well.

They’ll say he never tried to rebuild and ignore the fact that this team had the most bare cupboard of prospects in the NHL at the time he took over. Literally only Horvat, who was far from ever looking like a 70 point 1B centre he has become. They’ll have you believe he “should’ve never traded a first (nothing until proven otherwise) for Miller because they’ve been the worst team in the NHL for the last four years!” Because somehow 3, 4 years ago is relevant to the current teams state. Even 2 years ago is not remotely relevant. Team had no idea what EP40 was at the NHL level, Horvat had become top 6 but still not the level he increased to today. They didn’t have what they believed could be a franchise changing #1D in Hughes. Markstrom was a question mark rather than team MVP.

Obviously he’s made mistakes. Some bigger than others. But he turned a team that had absolutely no future into a team with potentially the brightest. They have a 1C, arguably a 1B C, a future #1 D who on some nights leads the team in TOI. They have a bright future in terms of goaltending and forward prospects. Moves like Miller, Pearson (on pace for 76 and 61 points) and Leivo(above 0.5ppg) have added much needed depth, and in more ways than just scoring.

He’s far from “the worst gm in the NHL.” He’s made bad moves. He’s made moves that were sidegrades. But all of those don’t come close to bringing down the positive he accomplished for this team.

The tank thread is one of the most toxic, bitter places you can find on the internet. An echo chamber of deluded thoughts. One of my favourites after the Canucks win against the Sharks. A win which put them first in the Pacific with games in hand on everyone behind them other than the Oilers. “Barely making the playoffs this year would be unfortunate and shortsighted for the overall goal of creating a long term contender.”

Because just like Boston, St. Louis, Washington, New Jersey, Edmonton, Buffalo have all shown. You have to exclusively draft high non stop, which magically creates you a contending team. No teams have ever gone long periods of making the playoffs and drafting low while staying contending. It’s not possible to draft well with late picks.

Anyways, Benning should be middle of the pack.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

Nail Yakupov was a Calder finalist and robbed of it. Ep40 has regressed this year. A lot of it depends on what he does next year and what is ceiling is.I do not see true elite talent, a lot of teams don't have it, to be a cup contender.

I stopped reading after i saw this. lol EP40 on pace for 35 goals and leading the team in assists is apparently regression for a 21 yr old sophomore.

 

[GodPucker]

I stopped reading after i saw this. lol EP40 on pace for 35 goals and leading the team in assists is apparently regression for a 21 yr old sophomore.

I mean compared to last year he doesn't stand out much and I am talking long term. I never meant he is regressing and that is it. He has tons of time. I meant overall elite talent on the team, not Ep40 himself. bad choice of words.

 

[innitfam]

His contract negotiations are still awful. He was able to get out of a couple of them (Gudbranson, Sbisa) but way too much $ and term handed out to Beagle, Eriksson, Sutter, Baertschi and Ferland.

It's not that all these players have been terrible - in Ferland's case it's more not enough of a sample size - but overall, it's too much for what is brought to the table. Over $20M dollars there in those five players.

Eriksson has mostly been quite bad but he is playing fairly well lately, though still grossly overpaid.

Sutter is too much money and term for a 3C (re: cost of a 3C when he signed) and is often injured. Decent player overall though. Ditto for Beagle except he's a 4C, and Baertschi for a middle-6 winger.

Drafting has been very good and trades a complete mixed bag.

Overall, his cumulative performance is best weighed when/if he is negotiating the goalie issue and Pettersson + Hughes contracts and the Canucks post-season success (if any) in 2020 and 2021.

 

[FreeMcdavid]

His contract negotiations are still awful. He was able to get out of a couple of them (Gudbranson, Sbisa) but way too much $ and term handed out to Beagle, Eriksson, Sutter, Baertschi and Ferland.

It's not that all these players have been terrible - in Ferland's case it's more not enough of a sample size - but overall, it's too much for what is brought to the table. Over $20M dollars there in those five players.

Eriksson has mostly been quite bad but he is playing fairly well lately, though still grossly overpaid.

Sutter is too much money and term for a 3C (re: cost of a 3C when he signed) and is often injured. Decent player overall though. Ditto for Beagle except he's a 4C, and Baertschi for a middle-6 winger.

Drafting has been very good and trades a complete mixed bag.

Overall, his cumulative performance is best weighed when/if he is negotiating the goalie issue and Pettersson + Hughes contracts and if the Canucks make the playoffs in 2020 or 2021.

I'll take that if thats the biggest complaint we have on Benning compared to the other problems other teams are dealing with.

Baertschi and Suter's contract expires next year, Loui and Beagle in 2 years.

If Markstrom prices himself out then we have Demko and Dipietro in the wings. Im very confident in our goalie coach in Ian Clarke who has been behind Markstrom's success and also Bobrovsky's Vezina seasons.

 

[AvroArrow]

Amazing scout, pretty awful at everything else

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Nail Yakupov was a Calder finalist and robbed of it. Ep40 has regressed this year. A lot of it depends on what he does next year and what is ceiling is.I do not see true elite talent, a lot of teams don't have it, to be a cup contender.

Lol. EP is much better this year than last year. Bonus points for working Yakupov into your post!

 

[WetcoastOrca]

His contract negotiations are still awful. He was able to get out of a couple of them (Gudbranson, Sbisa) but way too much $ and term handed out to Beagle, Eriksson, Sutter, Baertschi and Ferland.

It's not that all these players have been terrible - in Ferland's case it's more not enough of a sample size - but overall, it's too much for what is brought to the table. Over $20M dollars there in those five players.

Eriksson has mostly been quite bad but he is playing fairly well lately, though still grossly overpaid.

Sutter is too much money and term for a 3C (re: cost of a 3C when he signed) and is often injured. Decent player overall though. Ditto for Beagle except he's a 4C, and Baertschi for a middle-6 winger.

Drafting has been very good and trades a complete mixed bag.

Overall, his cumulative performance is best weighed when/if he is negotiating the goalie issue and Pettersson + Hughes contracts and the Canucks post-season success (if any) in 2020 and 2021.

I think that’s a pretty fair post. The only thing I’d add is that most of his mistakes were in the earlier years and he appears to be at least learning. But I have to admit I’m scared to see what he actually does when he has cap space again. Being up against the cap has in many ways been a good thing.

 

[nowhereman]

Nail Yakupov was a Calder finalist and robbed of it. Ep40 has regressed this year. A lot of it depends on what he does next year and what is ceiling is.I do not see true elite talent, a lot of teams don't have it, to be a cup contender.

EP has regressed and the Canucks don't have any true elite talent?

Any other dumb takes you'd lie to add to the conversation, lmfao?

 

[WTG]

"Rebuilding while remaining competitive"
Over Benning's tenure, his team is 25th in Point %. Including the first year where he inherited Gillis's team. If you exclude that year the Canucks are 29 out of 31 in points %.
Benning has most definitely not "rebuilt while remaining competitive".

Benning has had 5 top 10 picks.

Virtanen - middle 6 forward
Juolevi - a prospect that MIGHT become an NHL player
Pettersson - Elite player
Hughes - Elite player (I hope)
Podkolzin - good prospect nowhere close to as good of a prospect as Hughes or Pettersson

The Juolevi pick is such a bizarre one too. Juolevi and Tkachuk both player on the London Knights. Meaning that he must have watched the London Knights and come away thinking that somehow Juolevi was a better prospect than Tkachuk. Benning compared Juolevi to Lidstrom. We are going to sit here and pretend he is some mastermind at scouting?

Any picks outside of the 1st round should not really be credited for the GM. I sincerely doubt a GM has that big of an impact on players outside of the top 15. I used to watch a lot of the Canucks prospects and that was a f*** TON of games.

Besides, I do not think amateur scouting is something a GM should do anyway. Benning has done well to give Brackett charge of scouting. But he is not directly responsible for Brackett's scouting. Remove Benning, the Canucks probably continue to scout at the level they are at now.

 

[GOilers88]

Watch out, might upset those that participate in the tank thread. They are after all, self-proclaimed “intellectuals” that “know better” and “want more” than those ridiculous casuals that support the team and the players!!

Those same “intellectuals” will go to the ends of the earth to try to make you believe that Benning signing bottom six players was “a desperate attempt” to keep them competitive. Cause having vets to insulate kids is horrible. As you pointed out, just drafting high and relying on kids had worked out well for your team, and the Sabres. Super well.

They’ll say he never tried to rebuild and ignore the fact that this team had the most bare cupboard of prospects in the NHL at the time he took over. Literally only Horvat, who was far from ever looking like a 70 point 1B centre he has become. They’ll have you believe he “should’ve never traded a first (nothing until proven otherwise) for Miller because they’ve been the worst team in the NHL for the last four years!” Because somehow 3, 4 years ago is relevant to the current teams state. Even 2 years ago is not remotely relevant. Team had no idea what EP40 was at the NHL level, Horvat had become top 6 but still not the level he increased to today. They didn’t have what they believed could be a franchise changing #1D in Hughes. Markstrom was a question mark rather than team MVP.

Obviously he’s made mistakes. Some bigger than others. But he turned a team that had absolutely no future into a team with potentially the brightest. They have a 1C, arguably a 1B C, a future #1 D who on some nights leads the team in TOI. They have a bright future in terms of goaltending and forward prospects. Moves like Miller, Pearson (on pace for 76 and 61 points) and Leivo(above 0.5ppg) have added much needed depth, and in more ways than just scoring.

He’s far from “the worst gm in the NHL.” He’s made bad moves. He’s made moves that were sidegrades. But all of those don’t come close to bringing down the positive he accomplished for this team.

The tank thread is one of the most toxic, bitter places you can find on the internet. An echo chamber of deluded thoughts. One of my favourites after the Canucks win against the Sharks. A win which put them first in the Pacific with games in hand on everyone behind them other than the Oilers. “Barely making the playoffs this year would be unfortunate and shortsighted for the overall goal of creating a long term contender.”

Because just like Boston, St. Louis, Washington, New Jersey, Edmonton, Buffalo have all shown. You have to exclusively draft high non stop, which magically creates you a contending team. No teams have ever gone long periods of making the playoffs and drafting low while staying contending. It’s not possible to draft well with late picks.

Anyways, Benning should be middle of the pack.

Well said, mate.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

"Rebuilding while remaining competitive"
Over Benning's tenure, his team is 25th in Point %. Including the first year where he inherited Gillis's team. If you exclude that year the Canucks are 29 out of 31 in points %.
Benning has most definitely not "rebuilt while remaining competitive".

Benning has had 5 top 10 picks.

Virtanen - middle 6 forward
Juolevi - a prospect that MIGHT become an NHL player
Pettersson - Elite player
Hughes - Elite player (I hope)
Podkolzin - good prospect nowhere close to as good of a prospect as Hughes or Pettersson

Any picks outside of the 1st round should not really be credited for the GM. I sincerely doubt a GM has that big of an impact on players outside of the top 15. I used to watch a lot of the Canucks prospects and that was a **** TON of games.

Besides, I do not think amateur scouting is something a GM should do anyway. Benning has done well to give Brackett charge of scouting. But he is not directly responsible for Brackett's scouting. Remove Benning, the Canucks probably continue to scout at the level they are at now.

The bolded is what I take issue with.
The GM is the guy responsible for the scouts. So of course just like in any big company he should get credit and blame for the picks. That’s how companies work. The boss delegates to the people he has put in place to make decisions and his job is to oversee those people and ultimately he has the final call.
And yes he’s had 5 top 10 picks but not a first overall pick and in fact not even a top 3 pick. And he’s acquired a top C and D with two of those top 10 picks and a top line winger with a pick in the 20’s.
There’s lots to criticize but I think he also deserves credit for the things that have worked just like any CEO would.

 

[Strangelove]

Vancouver board has a "tank thread" specifically created for posters to cheer on losing for Canucks to get Benning fired and to get draft picks, do other boards have this?

No, I do not think other teams have that, not to the degree of HFCanucks.

It is very perverse indeed... and that attitude has polluted many other threads over the last few years.

Said perversion has driven good posters to other Canuck message boards.

On these other boards you will find Canuck fans occasionally looking on in horror.

I have been posting on Canuck boards for 23 years and have never seen such a thing.

On my main board interesting theories have been offered up as to how it became this way.

To HFCanucks credit, they allowed a long thread there recently which acknowledged this problem.