Has the Rangers Window Closed?

[KingWantsCup]

I wanna know what nhl team is going to do us a favor and accept a trade for Nash, Girardi? Also what makes anyone think Girardi will waive his no trade?

Neither Girardi nor Nash may want to waste the twilight years of their careers being involved in a multi-year rebuild. Especially considering that neither have won a cup. Girardi wouldn't necessarily have to be moved though if we're rebuilding. He has little to no trade value and would be better served helping us reach the cap floor.

In the event that Rangers brass idiotically tries to keep going for the cup, trading Nash will make no sense and trading Girardi will likely cost us picks and/or prospects we do not have.

 

[nyr2k2]

I wanna know what nhl team is going to do us a favor and accept a trade for Nash, Girardi? Also what makes anyone think Girardi will waive his no trade?

If the team makes it clear he's no longer part of the plan, it's tough to see him refusing. He'd obviously want a say, but if the Rangers had a deal to move him up to Boston or Buffalo or one of the Ontario teams I'm sure he'd bite. Hell, Girardi himself may want to move on.

Obviously we can't be certain of anything, but Girardi doesn't strike me as the type that would fight a trade unless it was somewhere he absolutely did not want to play.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Not necessarily.

The Rangers have a solid group of guys already in place, and many of them are fairly young.

The window really depends on how the approach their arithmetic --- specifically additions and subtractions.

For me, a window is closed when they have nothing substantial to work with and must go out get those pieces. That's not necessarily the case here. They have some solid young forward pieces/potential. They still have Lundqvist, and they still have McD.

Defense is probably the biggest area that is going to need help and that's probably the biggest factor as to how we view the window. Potentially, you have at least McD, Klein, Skjei and McIlrath on the roster. If someone is acquired via a trade and someone else via free agency, that's not necessarily a bad place from which to move forward. But that's a big IF.

Fair enough, I can see your point of view.

 

[Miamipuck]

Depends on this off-season, but for the sake of argument I feel it has been closed since the offseason of 2014. I didn't think they could win it last year, or this year. Although last year you could at least make an argument for them getting a second shot. This year it was crystal clear after only a two months that this team was never going anywhere. Top-5 defense tho.

Where is the guy with 50,000 posts who kept insisting every team in the league would be tripping over themselves to trade their defense for the Rangers. He's been strangely silent.

Window closed- Yes, as a poster earlier said, this league with the pace of the game, getting rid of any player 28 and over, as of today, is probably a wise decision, except Hank. With the correct decisions it can repopen again.

 

[nyr2k2]

Neither Girardi nor Nash may want to waste the twilight years of their careers being involved in a multi-year rebuild. Especially considering that neither have won a cup. Girardi wouldn't necessarily have to be moved though if we're rebuilding. He has little to no trade value and would be better served helping us reach the cap floor. Yes, reach the cap floor.

If you're expecting a true rebuild, I think you'll be disappointed.

 

[OverTheCap]

I think they still have a decent enough group to be competitive, but they are lacking elite young players that can carry this team to a cup. There is no core nucleus of players equivalent to a Toews-Kane-Keith or Doughty-Kopitar that form the backbone of a cup-winning team.

We'll see, maybe the front office can find a way acquire players like that. But its awfully hard to find young talented players of that caliber unless you hit the draft lottery.

 

[KingWantsCup]

If you're expecting a true rebuild, I think you'll be disappointed.

I'm holding out hope and bracing for disappointment. Realistically this team is going to look like the '09-'10 team for a long, long time.

 

[Ghost of jas]

If the team makes it clear he's no longer part of the plan, it's tough to see him refusing. He'd obviously want a say, but if the Rangers had a deal to move him up to Boston or Buffalo or one of the Ontario teams I'm sure he'd bite. Hell, Girardi himself may want to move on.

Obviously we can't be certain of anything, but Girardi doesn't strike me as the type that would fight a trade unless it was somewhere he absolutely did not want to play.

I would be shocked if Ranger management hasn't already made it clear to both Girardi and Staal that neither one of them figures in the Rangers plans moving forward. The fact that AV referred to these playoffs as one last kick at the can for this group only certifies it stronger for me. I believed at the time that the deal for his brother was a parting gift to Staal. There is going to be turnover. The question is, will it go beyond the obvious - Nash, the Staals, Girardi, Moore and Boyle. Could players like Brassard, Klein..possibly Hayes, also get moved?

 

[Mac n Gs]

Where is the guy with 50,000 posts who kept insisting every team in the league would be tripping over themselves to trade their defense for the Rangers. He's been strangely silent.

Window closed- Yes, as a poster earlier said, this league with the pace of the game, getting rid of any player 28 and over, as of today, is probably a wise decision, except Hank. With the correct decisions it can repopen again.

Kind of ironic that CupWindow just suddenly disappeared except for a brief moment a few weeks ago

 

[TheTakedown]

I would be shocked if Ranger management hasn't already made it clear to both Girardi and Staal that neither one of them figures in the Rangers plans moving forward. The fact that AV referred to these playoffs as one last kick at the can for this group only certifies it stronger for me. I believed at the time that the deal for his brother was a parting gift to Staal. There is going to be turnover. The question is, will it go beyond the obvious - Nash, the Staals, Girardi, Moore and Boyle. Could players like Brassard, Klein..possibly Hayes, also get moved?

I said this as well. Not only was it a parting gift but it was also to get Marc going. Marc being homegrown made this make even more sense.

I think at this point the older guys with currently-active big contracts know their time is up on this team. That means ALL of Staal, Girardi, Nash, and Glass (considering his position and point output) are all on the hot seat. Honestly, I think we get better returns than we think.

Girardi can be traded with $1M retained to a team desperate for defense (Boston or Colorado come to mind). Could easily return a 2nd/3rd and a throwaway prospect, maybe another bad contract (Jason Pominville?)
Staal can be traded for a 2nd, prospect, and low end replacement roster player. Add in $1M retained and that trade becomes a 1st, Up and coming player (Nichushkin), and a prospect.
Nash could be traded for a 2nd, 4th, and prospect/roster player. Retain $1.8M and that easily becomes a 1st, 3rd, and up and coming prospective roster player
Glass could easily be traded with his play improving this year for a 5th

Those are still decent returns. It would have been better to do this at the deadline but it is what it is at this point.

The others with expiring contracts will walk:
Dan Boyle
Dom Moore
Eric Staal

The only question mark at this point is Yandle. it's up to the team to decide if they want to keep him or if they trade his rights for a 5th and someone gives him an 8 year deal.

 

[Miamipuck]

Kind of ironic that CupWindow just suddenly disappeared except for a brief moment a few weeks ago

Oh yes that's the guy, I kept wondering what he was seeing that I wasn't. It turns out it was nothing. lol

 

[rdhstlr23]

I believe the window has closed.

Until this team starts developing a star outside of a goalie, then we have no chance. It's clear we can't expect Lundqvist to be other-wordly anymore. He's been that for so long.

Until we have a #1 C and a #1 D, we just won't be able to win the Cup.

 

[Edge]

I believe the window has closed.

Until this team starts developing a star outside of a goalie, then we have no chance. It's clear we can't expect Lundqvist to be other-wordly anymore. He's been that for so long.

Until we have a #1 C and a #1 D, we just won't be able to win the Cup.

I think they have a #1 C and a #1 D. What they don't have is a franchise player at either position.

The biggest problem is that they have half a defense at the moment.

 

[bubba5]

If the team makes it clear he's no longer part of the plan, it's tough to see him refusing. He'd obviously want a say, but if the Rangers had a deal to move him up to Boston or Buffalo or one of the Ontario teams I'm sure he'd bite. Hell, Girardi himself may want to move on.

Obviously we can't be certain of anything, but Girardi doesn't strike me as the type that would fight a trade unless it was somewhere he absolutely did not want to play.

Yes but what nhl team is going to waste cap space and years for a run down defenseman?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Our fans have built up confidence in our players. Maybe not Hawks or Kings level, but we think we have some pretty good players. A potential problem with that is thinking we have better talent than we have. If this team had just been bad for the last three years, our fans would probably think we have much worse talent than we actually have. Thats just part of the psychology of fan opinion in sports.

I think some people don't realize how big some of our needs are. We need a top 4 RHD who can put up points, and probably someone with top 2 potential. We also need at least another first line forward, maybe two. Thats the point where we can contend for a cup. Unless we are acquiring those players in the offseason without giving up anything that important to the current team, we aren't going to be able to contend for a cup.

Some people just don't seem to grasp that our talent is going down the drain. This is what happens when you give up so many picks and prospects. The eventual needs for your team are not filled with young players because those players aren't available in your farm system.

 

[Inferno]

I think they have a #1 C and a #1 D. What they don't have is a franchise player at either position.

The biggest problem is that they have half a defense at the moment.

i think their biggest problem is their offense is SO reliant on scoring off the rush that they have no chance in the playoffs. theres a reason their scoring almost always tanks in the playoffs...its because you dont get 10 breakaways a night in the playoffs. these teams know how to defend.

my second problem with the team is man to man defense..over the years ive grown to despise it. you are almost always....heck maybe always always, chasing the play. you never let the play come to you, you never have the play in front of you, you are chasing, and team with decent rotation can have you outnumbered in front of the net with a winger trying to cover the slot. its so frikkin stupid.

 

[The Gloaming]

Our fans have built up confidence in our players. Maybe not Hawks or Kings level, but we think we have some pretty good players. A potential problem with that is thinking we have better talent than we have. If this team had just been bad for the last three years, our fans would probably think we have much worse talent than we actually have. Thats just part of the psychology of fan opinion in sports.

I think some people don't realize how big some of our needs are. We need a top 4 RHD who can put up points, and probably someone with top 2 potential. We also need at least another first line forward, maybe two. Thats the point where we can contend for a cup. Unless we are acquiring those players in the offseason without giving up anything that important to the current team, we aren't going to be able to contend for a cup.

Some people just don't seem to grasp that our talent is going down the drain. This is what happens when you give up so many picks and prospects. The eventual needs for your team are not filled with young players because those players aren't available in your farm system.

Agreed for the most part. I know you love McDonagh, but I'm going to go one step further and say that maybe we need a defenseman that would McD our number 2. For me, he's closer to a Seabrook-level defenseman than to Duncan Keith. And then we need a defenseman to push Klein to the bottom pair. And maybe a center better than Stepan and Brassard put together (Ok, that's a slight exaggeration, but you get the point).

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Agreed for the most part. I know you love McDonagh, but I'm going to go one step further and say that maybe we need a defenseman that would McD our number 2. For me, he's closer to a Seabrook-level defenseman than to Duncan Keith. And then we need a defenseman to push Klein to the bottom pair. And maybe a center better than Stepan and Brassard put together (Ok, that's a slight exaggeration, but you get the point).

To use the Hawks or Kings example, he's definitely not Doughty or Keith level, but I think he's safely above Seabrook or Muzzin level. I still get your point.

The easiest way to get those elite level talents is early draft picks. We've done a very good job of acquiring good hockey players without high draft picks, but its very hard to do, and even if we've shown we can build a team that can contend for the Stanley Cup, what we were missing at the end of the day were those elite level game winners, like Tavares did for the Isles last night. Our only player of that level was our goalie, and even he wasn't as clutch as he was needed to be at certain times in the 2014 and 2015 playoffs.

We don't have to get rid of everyone, we should be keeping around 3/5's of our roster, but there really are 5, 6, 7 players that should be going, and its not just the three whipping boys+Glass, its other pieces that people might like now, but won't in 3-4 years when we can probably be competitive again for the Stanley Cup.

 

[The Gloaming]

To use the Hawks or Kings example, he's definitely not Doughty or Keith level, but I think he's safely above Seabrook or Muzzin level. I still get your point.

The easiest way to get those elite level talents is early draft picks. We've done a very good job of acquiring good hockey players without high draft picks, but its very hard to do, and even if we've shown we can build a team that can contend for the Stanley Cup, what we were missing at the end of the day were those elite level game winners, like Tavares did for the Isles last night. Our only player of that level was our goalie, and even he wasn't as clutch as he was needed to be at certain times in the 2014 and 2015 playoffs.

We don't have to get rid of everyone, we should be keeping around 3/5's of our roster, but there really are 5, 6, 7 players that should be going, and its not just the three whipping boys+Glass, its other pieces that people might like now, but won't in 3-4 years when we can probably be competitive again for the Stanley Cup.

He's above the two guys you mentioned. But not enough. I think it goes something like this:

Keith_____________McDonagh_____Seabrook. So McDonagh's further from Keith than from Seabrook.

You think we can be competitive for the Cup in 3-4 years? I think that's rather optimistic, considering Hank is 34, our last first round pick was Brady Skjei in 2012, we have one of the worst prospect looks in the league, and no truly elite skaters to build a team around.

 

[Inferno]

hawks have Hossa and Keith on cheater contracts. thats why they are elite.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He's above the two guys you mentioned. But not enough. I think it goes something like this:

Keith_____________McDonagh_____Seabrook. So McDonagh's further from Keith than from Seabrook.

You think we can be competitive for the Cup in 3-4 years? I think that's rather optimistic, considering Hank is 34, our last first round pick was Brady Skjei in 2012, we have one of the worst prospect looks in the league, and no truly elite skaters to build a team around.

I think it depends. If Gorton is committed to rebuilding the team in the next 3-4 years with tanking, I think we could. If we are trading Hank, Klein, Nash, Staal, Girardi, and can get get 3/4 first round picks and a few decent prospects, I think we have a roster bad enough to be picking in the top 5 for the next few years. We have no firsts this year, but we could acquire a few with a fire-sale, and then we should have at least one early first for 2017, 2018, 2019 with a Leafs-esque bad team. I look at what the Leafs did, and I think we could do something similar. We actually have more talent to sell off than they did.

I posted this in the roster building thread last night, the plan for a contender in 2019-2020. The ?'s are positions that need to be sorted out and filled during the rebuild, hopefully from high picks and prospects acquired.

?-?-Buchnevich(24)
Kreider(28)-Stepan(29)-Miller(26)
Hayes(27)-Brassard(32)-Zuccarrello(32)
Nieves(25)-Hrivik(28)-Fast(27)
?

McD(30)-?
Skjei(25)-McI(27)
Graves(24)-?
?

Shesterkin(23)
Halverson(23)

 

[True Blue]

Slammed shut? No. But as others have noted, if changes to both philosophy and personnel are not made, then turn out the lights......

I think that we have seen the best of Henke. He will not be able to carry the team on his shoulders. But it does not mean he is a part of the problem. You fix issues by fixing the defense. You do not bring in a 30 year old fringe player like Diaz, when a Dylan MclRath exists. Instead of only thinking about puck moving skills, you give some thoughts to clearning the crease. Not letting players set up and be comfortable. Puck movement is important, but so too are other skills.

They can retool. Not rebuild. But again, foolish wastes of cap space and draft picks have made it VERY difficult. The trading of Nash is something that can be done. They should have traded Yandle, but that ship has sailed. Can they move Staal? Maybe. Can they move Girardi? That is not easy.

They can compete and not change the core. But it will require a readjustment of thinking from AV and Gorton making all the right moves.

 

[The Gloaming]

I think it depends. If Gorton is committed to rebuilding the team in the next 3-4 years with tanking, I think we could. If we are trading Hank, Klein, Nash, Staal, Girardi, and can get get 3/4 first round picks and a few decent prospects, I think we have a roster bad enough to be picking in the top 5 for the next few years. We have no firsts this year, but we could acquire a few with a fire-sale, and then we should have at least one early first for 2017, 2018, 2019 with a Leafs-esque bad team. I look at what the Leafs did, and I think we could do something similar. We actually have more talent to sell off than they did.

I posted this in the roster building thread last night, the plan for a contender in 2019-2020. The ?'s are positions that need to be sorted out and filled during the rebuild, hopefully from high picks and prospects acquired.

A true firesale and ensuing tank won't happen unless we trade Hank, which is where we get to a problem. Full NMC and loyalty to the guy who held this franchise up for a decade. That's not something you can just throw away. I like what the Leads have done. But if you consider their old core to be Kessel and Phaneuf, trading them was a lot easier since both of those guys were treated like **** by their media. Not only do we love and adore Hank in NY, but our wonder twins weren't heavily criticised except towards the end of this season.

 

[Inferno]

you can still tank with henrik.

u play him 50 games a season, and you put a defense that is actually worse than what we have now....which is almost impossible to think about.

 

[The Gloaming]

you can still tank with henrik.

u play him 50 games a season, and you put a defense that is actually worse than what we have now....which is almost impossible to think about.

Look at the defense he had before 2011. He got those teams to the playoffs, so he might be able to do the same.

I guess if you keep AV and all his favorites, next season can get pretty low in the standings.