Prospect Info: Has prospect development improved significantly since this season?

[voyageur]

Can you please tell me how many games they played on the same line in Laval?

I believe the lines to start were

Terry-McCarron-Sherbak
Holland-Froese-Carr.

I remember reading a scouting report on Carr from Sly, saying that he had become a #1 PKer with Froese, then never got a chance as a pro.

 

[Unclewhalebone]

McCarron was pacing the right way the moment he was traded to London. He carried that over to his first AHL year but a series of premature callups and terrible AHL advice and he's never looked as good since.

Something similar happened to De La Rose.

You need to put these guys in positions where they can succeed, build confidence and if they're projects, let them build their games in the AHL. Who cares if you see De La Rose as a third liner at best ? You develop him like any top offensive player by giving him PP time, top 6 minutes, offensive responsibilities. Give PK time to offensive players... develop well rounded players who get used to being key players on their teams.

If you're developping a third liner in the AHL, what the hell do you expect him to be at the NHL level ?

This is incredibly well said in my opinion. Let them stay and learn how to carry a team first, instead of coming to the bigs to play spot duty filler rolls. I'm convinced that most of the premature call ups for these guys (and I include Mete and Juulsen in that) are to try to sell us Habs fans on "the future" and have nothing to do with "development'.

 

[voyageur]

This is incredibly well said in my opinion. Let them stay and learn how to carry a team first, instead of coming to the bigs to play spot duty filler rolls. I'm convinced that most of the premature call ups for these guys (and I include Mete and Juulsen in that) are to try to sell us Habs fans on "the future" and have nothing to do with "development'.

Spot on. Both are essentially converted wingers too. DeLaRose sent back to learn C because of a gaping hole, after a year of being an NHL winger. Mc Carron rushed because of his size. When the Jets converted 3rd rounder Adam Lowry to C, they gave him the entire year to learn it. And again as an example, he could have made the NHL as a LW at 19, he had a great camp, but the Jets had to find a replacement for a stunted developed player in Burmistrov, who was a coach's nightmare.

 

[Unclewhalebone]

I think the philosophy needs to change. Let them play for 2, 3 years in the A. Just make that the norm. Let them become men without being seduced by fame. Let them continue to refine skills through ups and downs. Let them be leaders and develop chemistry with the guys they will hopefully eventually win with on the habs.
Even Chuck could have benefited from pumping the breaks a bit I think.

 

[c3z4r]

I believe the lines to start were

Terry-McCarron-Sherbak
Holland-Froese-Carr.

I remember reading a scouting report on Carr from Sly, saying that he had become a #1 PKer with Carr, who never got a chance as a pro.

Carr missed some of the first AHL games due to his father's death, then he lines were



Knowing Froese only spent 11 games in Laval, they couldn't have played together more than 4-5 games on the same line, no?

So how much of that chemistry did Sly facilitate considering Froese was signed to be a top 6 guy in the AHL, and he barely played with Carr when he was there anyway? Honestly, it just seems like you are reaching for things to praise SLy. Why not praise him for Gallagher's development too?

 

[voyageur]

Carr missed some of the first AHL games due to his father's death, then he lines were



Knowing Froese only spent 11 games in Laval, they couldn't have played together more than 4-5 games on the same line, no?

So how much of that chemistry did Sly facilitate considering Froese was signed to be a top 6 guy in the AHL, and he barely played with Carr when he was there anyway? Honestly, it just seems like you are reaching for things to praise SLy. Why not praise him for Gallagher's development too?

I forgot about that. Mc Carron got the 1st call. Reway was jettisoned quick. Terry-Holland-Sherbak I remember. Carr-Froese emerged somewhere. I'm old and damaged I forget things in their entirety. You can carry on, I will keep my thoughts to myself on this subject.

 

[durojean]

I don't think Lefebvre has done so bad in the development process. Hudon is a good example of a player who graduated from the AHL NHL ready. Sherbak has been impressive. Lindgren. Juulsen too. 3 players he coached, Deslauriers-Froese-Carr actually vaulted the Canadiens into contention. Mc Carron is hard to assess, lacks NHL foot speed. DeLaRose lacks NHL skill.


I don't see him as the problem. I think Daigneault is. Bring in Ducharme, and a new d coach, and there is a different perspective. Still not a Julien fan, not a guy who plays to win, he plays not to lose. But loses anyways. I think if Bergevin goes, Julien goes too.

Don't kid yourself... Lefevbre is a big problem : Froese Carr and Deslauriers did not have time to play a lot for him before going up.

 

[Andrei79]

I think the philosophy needs to change. Let them play for 2, 3 years in the A. Just make that the norm. Let them become men without being seduced by fame. Let them continue to refine skills through ups and downs. Let them be leaders and develop chemistry with the guys they will hopefully eventually win with on the habs.
Even Chuck could have benefited from pumping the breaks a bit I think.

Thats how I see it as well, especially in this market.

 

[habsfan909]

Is SLY part of the solution? NO. Even if you argue he hasn't been horrible - and you say he has been "fair" then that is not good enough and it's time to wipe it clean. Get someone who is part of the solution. Not someone you want to argue and use small examples that he may be AVERAGE on his best day. His career potential as a developer and AHL coach is average. That is his Max. Do you really think we should keep someone whose best potential is only average?

 

[montreal]

Is SLY part of the solution? NO. Even if you argue he hasn't been horrible - and you say he has been "fair" then that is not good enough and it's time to wipe it clean. Get someone who is part of the solution. Not someone you want to argue and use small examples that he may be AVERAGE on his best day. His career potential as a developer and AHL coach is average. That is his Max. Do you really think we should keep someone who's best potential is only average?

well said!

 

[Scintillating10]

We all know how bad prospect development has been with the habs in the MB era.
Traded up prospect Tinordi was a complete mess and a lost cause. Its almost he busted as soon as we drafted him. Next, Beaulieu. Ahh so much promise so much potential. Unfortunately, like tinordi, he was braindead and busted as well. McCarron is struggling big time. Galchenyuk has been sabotaged by Therrien, Bergevin and now Julien, tho he seems to be excelling despite the low point total. JDLR is a nothing and a waste of a 2nd.
And of course we haven't drafted and developped a superstar since Subban.

But recently, as a criticizing at everything fan, I've been very impressed by almost all Habs prospect in the pipeline.
Sherback has been extremely impressive and hopefully becomes our star player.
Juulsen has been rock solid and looks no where close to as braindead as the famous 2.
Mete, a 4th round pick, is already playing in the NHL as a 19 YO and looks decisevely smarter and better defensively than Sergs. He won gold playing on the top pairing for Canada.
Poehling is looking like a steal so far. More points in college that Mittlestat (WJC... yeah I know).
Other impressive players are hudon and rookie year Lehks.
Then you look at our other prospects and so far Brook and Fleury are looking great with the later also looking like a steal.
Finally, we're about to draft top 5-10 with as of now 4 2nd rounders with chances of acquiring more.
I think our development has improved tremendously. But with that being said fire Berge and Sly. We all know their tendencies. They simply mess things up. A new GM can really capitilaze on this and propel us to a succesful rebuild. All we need are some big league stars to complement these fine pieces. We have this draft plus hopefully the next few drafts. Look at the Sabres, for example, still struggling despite the stars they have. Why? Cuz they got no debt. I'm having a tough time identifying any non-top 10 picks doing well in Buffola.
What do you guys think?

Most prospects look good until they turn pro. Once this board had Tinordi, Leblanc as future NHLers. Fleury looks good but remember he was a year older in his draft. Reminds me of a Darren Dietz actually. But we will see.

This coming draft should be good for Habs. Every year we have missed the playoffs been a good draft, 2007, 2012 and 2016. We draft higher in every round plus have more picks. Much easier to have a good draft when we are drafting 6th overall each round compared to say 25th.

 

[Habs76]

I've been saying this for a while now, our drafting isn't the issue. It's development. In general most of our prospects look fantastic until they hit the pros. Lefebvre has got to go

 

[Habs Halifax]

Tinordi was a very bad pick. It has nothing to do with the Habs development.

He did not have the brains.

Bet you Yzerman would of "developed" Tinordi into the next Hedman

Totally agree. Tinordi was just a bad pick and we even traded down to draft him. Tinordi had 9pts in 26 games in his draft year with USHL. I know we were looking for defenseman but we also needed centers... Coyle was taken 28th and if we didn't make that trade, we had the 27th pick.

Gauthier

 

[Habs Halifax]

I've been saying this for a while now, our drafting isn't the issue. It's development. In general most of our prospects look fantastic until they hit the pros. Lefebvre has got to go

Ok... Who have we failed in development? Tinordi and Leblanc?

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Our development has been brutal in the AHL
Besides Hudon, Scherback and Juulsen have not played much down there
It's time for the Habs to clean house and bring up a better coaching staff for Laval
Ducharme or Bouchard would be excellent for that position

 

[Habs Halifax]

Our development is looking better this year and will look better in future years... Why? Because we are starting to recover from only 8 top 100 picks from the 2008-2011 draft years. I am not a fan of Sly as he has don't nothing to coach our AHL team to be better. However, development is on the players, not Sly. You can't develop a fringe NHL player into a top 6F or top 4D player. It's ridiculous to think that we can.

Look at the teams that are in our boat (2008-2011 draft years)...

Pens
- 7 top 100 picks (ranks last)
- 0 top 10 pick
- 22 total picks (ranks 29th)

Habs
- 8 top 100 picks (tied 2nd last)
- 0 top 10 pick
- 25 total picks (ranks 21st)

Sharks
- 8 top 100 picks (tied 2nd last)
- 0 top 10 pick
- 26 total picks (ranks 19th)

Flyers
- 8 top 100 picks (tied 2nd last)
- 1 top 10 pick
- 23 total picks (ranks 28th)

Canucks
- 8 top 100 picks (tied 2nd last)
- 1 top 10 pick
- 25 total picks (ranks 21st)

Now... ask me who these teams have developed with the lack of picks in that 4 year span, how many points in the NHL their players have accumulated, and where it ranks vs all other teams who had more picks, more top 100 picks, and more top 10 picks.

 

[Kwikwi]

Timmins is doing is job but in the 1st pick decision i have a feeling 10 guys are yapping at everyone and no one listening to each other.

Then the later rounds, day 2 of the draft. Things get more professional.

 

[SquiddFX]

You just named 3 teams who are currently in the playoffs. One of said teams is back to back SC champs. It looks like they recovered just fine. What is the Habs excuse?

 

[Belial]

Our development has been brutal in the AHL
Besides Hudon, Scherback and Juulsen have not played much down there
It's time for the Habs to clean house and bring up a better coaching staff for Laval
Ducharme or Bouchard would be excellent for that position

Who exactly did you expected to became a stud and he was ruined in the AHL?

 

[optimus2861]

Our development is looking better this year and will look better in future years... Why? Because we are starting to recover from only 8 top 100 picks from the 2008-2011 draft years. I am not a fan of Sly as he has don't nothing to coach our AHL team to be better. However, development is on the players, not Sly. You can't develop a fringe NHL player into a top 6F or top 4D player. It's ridiculous to think that we can.

Look at the teams that are in our boat (2008-2011 draft years)...

Pens
- 7 top 100 picks (ranks last)
- 0 top 10 pick
- 22 total picks (ranks 29th)

Habs
- 8 top 100 picks (tied 2nd last)
- 0 top 10 pick
- 25 total picks (ranks 21st)

Sharks
- 8 top 100 picks (tied 2nd last)
- 0 top 10 pick
- 26 total picks (ranks 19th)

Flyers
- 8 top 100 picks (tied 2nd last)
- 1 top 10 pick
- 23 total picks (ranks 28th)

Canucks
- 8 top 100 picks (tied 2nd last)
- 1 top 10 pick
- 25 total picks (ranks 21st)

Now... ask me who these teams have developed with the lack of picks in that 4 year span, how many points in the NHL their players have accumulated, and where it ranks vs all other teams who had more picks, more top 100 picks, and more top 10 picks.

You and your "top 100 picks" again. All while you're comparing apples to oranges:

Penguins: as of 2008 they were almost a finished product. They went to the final in 08, won the Cup in 09, and were highly competitive through to their next Cups in 16 & 17, though often getting derailed by injuries.

Sharks: highly competitive throughout the decade, though often falling short in the playoffs. Finally reached the SCF in 16.

Flyers: also frequently highly competitive and reached the SCF in 10.

Canucks: as of 2008 they already had the Sedins nearly fully matured, were highly competitive from ~09-12, and reached the SCF in 11.

Habs: .... Yeah. One fluke ECF run in 10 and another better run in 14, but nobody ever mistook the Canadiens as a highly competitive team that had a legit shot at making a Cup final, never mind actually win one.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Who exactly did you expected to became a stud and he was ruined in the AHL?

The 4 most disappointing ones are probably McCarron, Thrower, Fucale and Lernout
Some made the jump right away and avoided going to the AHL
Lehkonen was in Europe
Scherback and Juulseen really didn't play much under SL
Come on, please don't tell me you think SL is doing a good job with our prospects and team down there

 

[Belial]

The 4 most disappointing ones are probably McCarron, Thrower, Fucale and Lernout
Some made the jump right away and avoided going to the AHL
Lehkonen was in Europe
Scherback and Juulseen really didn't play much under SL
Come on, please don't tell me you think SL is doing a good job with our prospects and team down there

McCarron, Thrower, Fucale and Lernout! What a list of studs!!! Come on man...

 

[Habs Halifax]

You and your "top 100 picks" again. All while you're comparing apples to oranges:

Penguins: as of 2008 they were almost a finished product. They went to the final in 08, won the Cup in 09, and were highly competitive through to their next Cups in 16 & 17, though often getting derailed by injuries.

Sharks: highly competitive throughout the decade, though often falling short in the playoffs. Finally reached the SCF in 16.

Flyers: also frequently highly competitive and reached the SCF in 10.

Canucks: as of 2008 they already had the Sedins nearly fully matured, were highly competitive from ~09-12, and reached the SCF in 11.

Habs: .... Yeah. One fluke ECF run in 10 and another better run in 14, but nobody ever mistook the Canadiens as a highly competitive team that had a legit shot at making a Cup final, never mind actually win one.

You didn't answer the question and you missed the point. Habs have Gallagher to show for the 2008-2011 terrible 4 years. What prospects did the Pens, Sharks, Flyers, and Canucks develop from those 4 years who also had similar picks that the Habs had.

It's hilarious how you don't see the coloration between your ability to develop players and how many picks you have... especially in the lower rounds of the draft.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

McCarron, Thrower, Fucale and Lernout! What a list of studs!!! Come on man...

Those are all players drafted in the top 2 rounds
Who has SL developed in your opinion?

 

[Belial]

Those are all players drafted in the top 2 rounds
Who has SL developed in your opinion?

I don't care about Sly, you can't develop something that's not there! Sly or not Sly...

If you have it in you, you will make it no matter how bad your coach is and if you don't have it in you you wont make it no matter how good your coach is!

Coaches don't ruin players or generate elite skill/talent. They're there to guide/motivate you and that's it.