Prospect Info: Has prospect development improved significantly since this season?

[Legend123]

We all know how bad prospect development has been with the habs in the MB era.
Traded up prospect Tinordi was a complete mess and a lost cause. Its almost he busted as soon as we drafted him. Next, Beaulieu. Ahh so much promise so much potential. Unfortunately, like tinordi, he was braindead and busted as well. McCarron is struggling big time. Galchenyuk has been sabotaged by Therrien, Bergevin and now Julien, tho he seems to be excelling despite the low point total. JDLR is a nothing and a waste of a 2nd.
And of course we haven't drafted and developped a superstar since Subban.

But recently, as a criticizing at everything fan, I've been very impressed by almost all Habs prospect in the pipeline.
Sherback has been extremely impressive and hopefully becomes our star player.
Juulsen has been rock solid and looks no where close to as braindead as the famous 2.
Mete, a 4th round pick, is already playing in the NHL as a 19 YO and looks decisevely smarter and better defensively than Sergs. He won gold playing on the top pairing for Canada.
Poehling is looking like a steal so far. More points in college that Mittlestat (WJC... yeah I know).
Other impressive players are hudon and rookie year Lehks.
Then you look at our other prospects and so far Brook and Fleury are looking great with the later also looking like a steal.
Finally, we're about to draft top 5-10 with as of now 4 2nd rounders with chances of acquiring more.
I think our development has improved tremendously. But with that being said fire Berge and Sly. We all know their tendencies. They simply mess things up. A new GM can really capitilaze on this and propel us to a succesful rebuild. All we need are some big league stars to complement these fine pieces. We have this draft plus hopefully the next few drafts. Look at the Sabres, for example, still struggling despite the stars they have. Why? Cuz they got no debt. I'm having a tough time identifying any non-top 10 picks doing well in Buffola.
What do you guys think?

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[Legend123]

Damn feels like I wrote a huge text wall. God damn it.

 

[montreal]

You seem to be mixing development and drafting.

Poehling, Brook, Fleury, haven't been developed by us, Lehkonen by Frolunda and Mete in London.

Hudon has been developed well in the AHL, Scherbak despite being so poorly handled is looking like he could be the player we drafted him to be. Juulsen played in only 31 games in the AHL so not sure how much he learned there but was always a safe bet to play in the NHL. A smart pick by Timmins but we need to see how much his offensive game can develop.

 

[Legend123]

You seem to be mixing development and drafting.

Poehling, Brook, Fleury, haven't been developed by us, Lehkonen by Frolunda and Mete in London.

Hudon has been developed well in the AHL, Scherbak despite being so poorly handled is looking like he could be the player we drafted him to be. Juulsen played in only 31 games in the AHL so not sure how much he learned there but was always a safe bet to play in the NHL. A smart pick by Timmins but we need to see how much his offensive game can develop.

In a way, AHL is not the only development league. For instance, the habs heavily pressured Tinordi and Big Mac to join the OHL. They even requested he be switched to C.
Imo development is more than just the A. Its about keeping tabs on their prospects in each league and providing their tips and analysis. And so on.

 

[Andrei79]

If Poehling's a steal then what are Tolvanen and Heponiemi ?

He's doing very well, but he's not crushing expectations. I say this as a fan of his game, he was very good at the U18, especially the finals.

Timmins has done much better lately, but the only prospect to really get excited about was traded, again.

 

[Unclewhalebone]

It seems to me that the players who were "developed" the best WITHIN the organization are the guys who were left in the minors to mature. Specifically Hudon and Scherbak.

 

[Runner77]

In a way, AHL is not the only development league. For instance, the habs heavily pressured Tinordi and Big Mac to join the OHL. They even requested he be switched to C.
Imo development is more than just the A. Its about keeping tabs on their prospects in each league and providing their tips and analysis. And so on.

Doesn't every club do that? Certainly, there are paths for certain players to take that are more beneficial to their long term development. I don't know that the Habs have taken them for the most part.

Talk to me about development when Lefebvre is replaced by the likes of Dominique Ducharme.

 

[Gabriiel40]

Doesn't every club do that? Certainly, there are paths for certain players to take that are more beneficial to their long term development. I don't know that the Habs have taken them for the most part.

Talk to me about development when Lefebvre is replaced by the likes of Dominique Ducharme.

I would love that coach change, Ducharme seems to know how to get the best out of his players. Maybe we can bring in his GM from the WJC too lol

 

[Runner77]

I would love that coach change, Ducharme seems to know how to get the best out of his players. Maybe we can bring in his GM from the WJC too lol

Wasn't it Joel Bouchard? They seem to make a great tandem. Bring in both.

 

[Gabriiel40]

Wasn't it Joel Bouchard? They seem to make a great tandem. Bring in both.

Wasn't sure on the name which is why I didnt say it, but yes bring both in. Bouchard as Assistant Gm before Bergevin gets fired and Ducharme as coach for laval. Bouchard for future gm down the road sounds good.

 

[Runner77]

Wasn't sure on the name which is why I didnt say it, but yes bring both in. Bouchard as Assistant Gm before Bergevin gets fired and Ducharme as coach for laval. Bouchard for future gm down the road sounds good.

I'd bring Bouchard along slowly. He could replace Larry Carrière. For the NHL job, you need NHL-ready and NHL-experienced talent, like a Julien BriseBois. However, it's a development thread, so I don't want to derail it. Let's just say, we need to know what happens to Lefebvre at season's end -- that's going to give us a good indication of whether another year of misery lies ahead.

 

[Gabriiel40]

I'd bring Bouchard along slowly. He could replace Larry Carrière. For the NHL job, you need NHL-ready and NHL-experienced talent, like a Julien BriseBois. However, it's a development thread, so I don't want to derail it. Let's just say, we need to know what happens to Lefebvre at season's end -- that's going to give us a good indication of whether another year of misery lies ahead.

when does Lefebvre's contract end?

 

[Andrei79]

Wasn't it Joel Bouchard? They seem to make a great tandem. Bring in both.

You don't really need high profile names like Bouchard, though it would be nice.

Cooper kind of came out of nowhere, but was a great USHL coach. TB nailed that interview process and found someone who could have a positive impact on development. Like the Hunters in London.

But that's why you need a great assistant GM who's open minded on the process.

 

[sandviper]

when does Lefebvre's contract end?

I believe his extension was 2-years when he signed last summer, so he’s here until the end of 2018-2019 season. Unless MB wakes up and fires his ass.

 

[voyageur]

Doesn't every club do that? Certainly, there are paths for certain players to take that are more beneficial to their long term development. I don't know that the Habs have taken them for the most part.

Talk to me about development when Lefebvre is replaced by the likes of Dominique Ducharme.

I don't think Lefebvre has done so bad in the development process. Hudon is a good example of a player who graduated from the AHL NHL ready. Sherbak has been impressive. Lindgren. Juulsen too. 3 players he coached, Deslauriers-Froese-Carr actually vaulted the Canadiens into contention. Mc Carron is hard to assess, lacks NHL foot speed. DeLaRose lacks NHL skill.


I don't see him as the problem. I think Daigneault is. Bring in Ducharme, and a new d coach, and there is a different perspective. Still not a Julien fan, not a guy who plays to win, he plays not to lose. But loses anyways. I think if Bergevin goes, Julien goes too.

 

[Runner77]

I don't think Lefebvre has done so bad in the development process. Hudon is a good example of a player who graduated from the AHL NHL ready. Sherbak has been impressive. Lindgren. Juulsen too. 3 players he coached, Deslauriers-Froese-Carr actually vaulted the Canadiens into contention. Mc Carron is hard to assess, lacks NHL foot speed. DeLaRose lacks NHL skill.


I don't see him as the problem. I think Daigneault is. Bring in Ducharme, and a new d coach, and there is a different perspective. Still not a Julien fan, not a guy who plays to win, he plays not to lose. But loses anyways. I think if Bergevin goes, Julien goes too.

You're really tallying small victories that don't justify 6 years of Lefebvre. Look at his track record. Who did he develop before he was named head coach for the AHL team? What is his pedigree? What particular skills and attributes does he own?

Scherbak hasn't proven anything at the NHL level and he won't prove anything now that he's going to play a bunch of meaningless games. He's still a project. Juulsen has just been called up -- are we really going to extrapolate from the few games he's played so far?

Are you kidding me about Deslauriers? Lefebvre had ZERO to do with who he is as a player -- he only had him on the Rocket for a grand total of 13 games. Froese is a typical 4th liner that any team can "develop". Carr isn't good enough to crack the lineup, he's in and out and looks more like he's on his way out.

How is McCarron "hard to assess"? He also looks like a player who is on his way out.

So all of these success stories you mention are all Lefebvre's doing but not DLR cause he lacks skill. Interesting. At what point does Lefebvre become accountable for something? Have you been reading his team's place in the standings, upside down?

 

[NORiculous]

Tinordi was a complete mess and a lost cause. Its almost he busted as soon as we drafted him.

Tinordi was a very bad pick. It has nothing to do with the Habs development.

He did not have the brains.

 

[Andrei79]

You're really tallying small victories that don't justify 6 years of Lefebvre. Look at his track record. Who did he develop before he was named head coach for the AHL team? What is his pedigree? What particular skills and attributes does he own?

Scherbak hasn't proven anything at the NHL level and he won't prove anything now that he's going to play a bunch of meaningless games. He's still a project. Juulsen has just been called up -- are we really going to extrapolate from the few games he's played so far?

Are you kidding me about Deslauriers? Lefebvre had ZERO to do with who he is as a player -- he only had him on the Rocket for a grand total of 13 games. Froese is a typical 4th liner that any team can "develop". Carr isn't good enough to crack the lineup, he's in and out and looks more like he's on his way out.

How is McCarron "hard to assess"? He also looks like a player who is on his way out.

So all of these success stories you mention are all Lefebvre's doing but not DLR cause he lacks skill. Interesting. At what point does Lefebvre become accountable for something? Have you been reading his team's place in the standings, upside down?

McCarron was pacing the right way the moment he was traded to London. He carried that over to his first AHL year but a series of premature callups and terrible AHL advice and he's never looked as good since.

Something similar happened to De La Rose.

You need to put these guys in positions where they can succeed, build confidence and if they're projects, let them build their games in the AHL. Who cares if you see De La Rose as a third liner at best ? You develop him like any top offensive player by giving him PP time, top 6 minutes, offensive responsibilities. Give PK time to offensive players... develop well rounded players who get used to being key players on their teams.

If you're developping a third liner in the AHL, what the hell do you expect him to be at the NHL level ?

 

[Runner77]

McCarron was pacing the right way the moment he was traded to London. He carried that over to his first AHL year but a series of premature callups and terrible AHL advice and he's never looked as good since.

Something similar happened to De La Rose.

You need to put these guys in positions where they can succeed, build confidence and if they're projects, let them build their games in the AHL. Who cares if you see De La Rose as a third liner at best ? You develop him like any top offensive player by giving him PP time, top 6 minutes, offensive responsibilities. Give PK time to offensive players... develop well rounded players who get used to being key players on their teams.

If you're developping a third liner in the AHL, what the hell do you expect him to be at the NHL level ?

True that McCarron was doing much better in London. So do we assume that if Lefebvre had a hand in helping some players move up, he can't take responsibility for those that falter under him? What about the Louis Leblanc saga, didn't Lefebvre play a part in that? And DLR? How about Beaulieu and Tinordi, both first round picks? How many first round picks failed under Lefebvre's tutelage? McCarron, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Leblanc ...

 

[Andrei79]

True that McCarron was doing much better in London. So do we assume that if Lefebvre had a hand in helping some players move up, he can't take responsibility for those that falter under him? What about the Louis Leblanc saga, didn't Lefebvre play a part in that? And DLR? How about Beaulieu and Tinordi, both first round picks? How many first round picks failed under Lefebvre's tutelage? McCarron, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Leblanc ...

McCarron had a good AHL rookie season. He actually looked like he could both score and dish the puck at center.

Then, they told him he'd never be an offensive player in the NHL. That's the difference between a Hunter and what we're stuck with.

Beaulieu I mind less, he was worth a try at the draft but he ended up having no toolbox (which I'm scared could happen to Merkley in this draft). Tinordi had no puck skills, he was drafted 15 years too late.

Leblanc looked good early own, but its well known he suffered intimidation. But that said, some people on this board think that's a good thing and that psychological violence is something everyone should be immune to. They probably laughed when they heard Brisebois cried before the home games at the Molson Center.

 

[voyageur]

You're really tallying small victories that don't justify 6 years of Lefebvre. Look at his track record. Who did he develop before he was named head coach for the AHL team? What is his pedigree? What particular skills and attributes does he own?

Scherbak hasn't proven anything at the NHL level and he won't prove anything now that he's going to play a bunch of meaningless games. He's still a project. Juulsen has just been called up -- are we really going to extrapolate from the few games he's played so far?

Are you kidding me about Deslauriers? Lefebvre had ZERO to do with who he is as a player -- he only had him on the Rocket for a grand total of 13 games. Froese is a typical 4th liner that any team can "develop". Carr isn't good enough to crack the lineup, he's in and out and looks more like he's on his way out.

How is McCarron "hard to assess"? He also looks like a player who is on his way out.

So all of these success stories you mention are all Lefebvre's doing but not DLR cause he lacks skill. Interesting. At what point does Lefebvre become accountable for something? Have you been reading his team's place in the standings, upside down?

It's a slippery slope. You may be right.

It's hard to assess. Standings aren't the only measure of success at the minor league level. I think the onus is to get players to the next level. I call McCarron and DLR as I see them, busts. I don't know if any coach will make them into anything. Deslauriers wasn't seen as much. But hometown pride can make a player better than he is, take Begin for example. Froese came out of a good Lightning organization, run by Brisebois. Then coached by Babcock. He managed to do what Mc Carron and DLR couldn't. Produce. And kill penalties well. It is Sly who facilitated the chemistry between him and Carr, that carried forward. Carr's biggest problem is that he does not kill penalties, and in terms of talent I think Hudon is ahead of him.

I don't know what coach could do anything with the depth he has been given. One star player in his time (Scherbak). And now a good d prospect, who has probably graduated already.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Guys get better as they gain more experience... that includes coaches as well...

 

[Habs178]

You're really tallying small victories that don't justify 6 years of Lefebvre. Look at his track record. Who did he develop before he was named head coach for the AHL team? What is his pedigree? What particular skills and attributes does he own?

Scherbak hasn't proven anything at the NHL level and he won't prove anything now that he's going to play a bunch of meaningless games. He's still a project. Juulsen has just been called up -- are we really going to extrapolate from the few games he's played so far?

Are you kidding me about Deslauriers? Lefebvre had ZERO to do with who he is as a player -- he only had him on the Rocket for a grand total of 13 games. Froese is a typical 4th liner that any team can "develop". Carr isn't good enough to crack the lineup, he's in and out and looks more like he's on his way out.

How is McCarron "hard to assess"? He also looks like a player who is on his way out.

So all of these success stories you mention are all Lefebvre's doing but not DLR cause he lacks skill. Interesting. At what point does Lefebvre become accountable for something? Have you been reading his team's place in the standings, upside down?

Lefebvre will be held accountable when his jackass boss is held accountable. Joke of an organization.

 

[c3z4r]

It's a slippery slope. You may be right.

It's hard to assess. Standings aren't the only measure of success at the minor league level. I think the onus is to get players to the next level. I call McCarron and DLR as I see them, busts. I don't know if any coach will make them into anything. Deslauriers wasn't seen as much. But hometown pride can make a player better than he is, take Begin for example. Froese came out of a good Lightning organization, run by Brisebois. Then coached by Babcock. He managed to do what Mc Carron and DLR couldn't. Produce. And kill penalties well. It is Sly who facilitated the chemistry between him and Carr, that carried forward. Carr's biggest problem is that he does not kill penalties, and in terms of talent I think Hudon is ahead of him.

I don't know what coach could do anything with the depth he has been given. One star player in his time (Scherbak). And now a good d prospect, who has probably graduated already.

Can you please tell me how many games they played on the same line in Laval?

 

[Runner77]

It's a slippery slope. You may be right.

It's hard to assess.

Look at it another way. Do you believe that a talented development coach will see opportunities offered to him so that he can move up the ranks? Look at what happened when Lefebvre's contract with the AHL team was up last year. He asked Bergevin for 2 months before he would give him on answer on whether he'd return. He claimed that he wanted to be an assistant coach at the NHL level and was seeking opportunities.

And we all know how in May, spots open up across the league. There are always several teams with roster turnovers.

How many NHL clubs showed an interest in Lefebvre? He apparently got an interview with Housley cause they shared the same agent. No one who knows Lefebvre, and knew he was available, solicited him otherwise he'd have a job by now.

A guy no one across the NHL wants, has been entrusted with the critical responsibility to develop our best assets.