Hall in hindsight?

[Jtown]

Yup substitute Hall for Ghost this past season and we wouldn't skip a beat......

i disagree. fortunately for us Time moves forward and that means we will have opportunities to see 2 very gifted offensive dmen fill in the shoes left by ghost as oppose to having literally no one to fill in the shoes for Hall.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

There's a decent chance that people look at Hall three or four years from in much the same way that people looked at Kessel during his peak offensive years in TOR.

It's hard to build around a winger--Benn and Ovi are rally the only two that come to mind. Could make an argument for Kane, but that's a stacked team.

I still think EDM is a better team with Lucic and Larsson than just Hall.

 

[LI Fly Guy]

i disagree. fortunately for us Time moves forward and that means we will have opportunities to see 2 very gifted offensive dmen fill in the shoes left by ghost as oppose to having literally no one to fill in the shoes for Hall.

That logic is fair enough. But Ghost is something special. I feel Provorov will be full package, a a Doughty type if he reaches ceiling. Sanheim is the wildcard. He's so gifted and has size and skating that's so rare together. If he hits his ceiling too.... Oh man. Still not willing to trade away Ghost because of what we MAY have in Samheim for a winger. Especially when we have Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek, Konecny, and there seems to be wingers that hit open market every summer (not as good as Hall) but close enough as to where I'm not trading any D for them. We've waited literally forever for homegrown D. That's always been the backbreaker for us (and goaltending) I'm not trading it for wingers. Center? Yes. But we're set there.

 

[Jtown]

That logic is fair enough. But Ghost is something special. I feel Provorov will be full package, a a Doughty type if he reaches ceiling. Sanheim is the wildcard. He's so gifted and has size and skating that's so rare together. If he hits his ceiling too.... Oh man. Still not willing to trade away Ghost because of what we MAY have in Samheim for a winger. Especially when we have Simmonds, Schenn, Voracek, Konecny, and there seems to be wingers that hit open market every summer (not as good as Hall) but close enough as to where I'm not trading any D for them. We've waited literally forever for homegrown D. That's always been the backbreaker for us (and goaltending) I'm not trading it for wingers. Center? Yes. But we're set there.

Having ghost lessens the value of provorov and sanheim over time. Ghost is special no doubt , but we are trading from a position of luxury for a position of need. This team is desperate for even strength scoring. We tried a variety of things such as moving voracek and simmer off giroux line and trying to make it a two line team with not great success.

Hall would make this team a legit 2 line even strength line. And allow Provorov and Sanheim the ability to maximize their value by being allowed to be teh PP qb for this team. As long as Ghost is on this team they will never qb the first unit.

 

[Winston Wolf]

I really don't have any desire to import any of the Oilers' malcontents into the locker room, and I assume Taylor Hall was at the forefront of the Oilers' poor culture. He's the kind of player this team should be looking at adding in three years when the roster is set and they're ready to contend, not right now.

As good as Hall is, he has four years left on his deal and how many of those years will the Flyers really be in contention? Maybe the last year or last two years, if they're lucky? Let the Devils spin their wheels in constant mediocrity, the Flyers don't need to be making moves like this right now.

I think a guy like Subban will play his ass off to make the Habs look stupid, while I wouldn't be surprised to see Hall pout for the next year or so.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Could have, would have, should have.

Honestly, Taylor Hall has had one good season since becoming an NHL regular and even then, that one season has to have an asterisk on it because he was a -14. He's only been a plus player once in his career. I know people will say "well, he played in Edmonton", but that can only bear so much weight.

Fact is, if he wanted to be one of the 'pillars' to be built upon, his defensive game would have improved, and it hasn't. As well, you have to ask yourself - if Chiarelli has a list of untouchables, and if Hall wasn't on the list, why would he be the first to go? You'd have to figure that Eberle and RNH could have brought back a decent package, so why did they stay and why was Hall moved? Maybe there's more to moving Hall than just 'that was the asking price.' Maybe Hall was one of those guys MacLellan couldn't get through to and maybe he had to go.

As for Larsson, I think he'll rebound just nice. Don't forget that Peter DeBoer nearly ruined him. It wasn't until DeBoer was fired and Scott Stevens got to work with Larsson that his game began to turn around. Then, John Hynes took over and got him back on track. This is a big, smooth skating defenseman that is going to be the shut down guy in Edmonton. He's not going to be asked to run the power play and a guy like Darnell Nurse might have that room to roam a little bit because of Larsson.

This is a good deal for both teams.

 

[Striiker]

Having ghost lessens the value of provorov and sanheim over time. Ghost is special no doubt , but we are trading from a position of luxury for a position of need. This team is desperate for even strength scoring. We tried a variety of things such as moving voracek and simmer off giroux line and trying to make it a two line team with not great success.

Hall would make this team a legit 2 line even strength line. And allow Provorov and Sanheim the ability to maximize their value by being allowed to be teh PP qb for this team. As long as Ghost is on this team they will never qb the first unit.

Defense is not a position of luxury and winger is not a position of need.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

I'm not willing to trade any of Ghost, Morin, Sanheim, Provorov, or Meyers for anything you could reasonably expect as a return. We need to keep all of them until we know what we have in them and/or the become too expensive to keep all

 

[LI Fly Guy]

Having ghost lessens the value of provorov and sanheim over time. Ghost is special no doubt , but we are trading from a position of luxury for a position of need. This team is desperate for even strength scoring. We tried a variety of things such as moving voracek and simmer off giroux line and trying to make it a two line team with not great success.

Hall would make this team a legit 2 line even strength line. And allow Provorov and Sanheim the ability to maximize their value by being allowed to be teh PP qb for this team. As long as Ghost is on this team they will never qb the first unit.

You're going to be severely disappointed if you think Provorov or Sanheim is just gonna walk in year one or year 2 or ever for that matter and do what Ghost did offensively.

Go sign a guy like Ericsson who's a little less the Player than Hall and keep all the Dman. Problem solved.

You're so sure of the D prospects coming in and being same caliber of Ghost, why can't you expect same out of Konecny, Allison, or Labarge than? Why not just stay the course. I guess you didn't learn in 2004 and 2010 of losing out on a chance to win a cup because of defense.

 

[Jtown]

I'm not willing to trade any of Ghost, Morin, Sanheim, Provorov, or Meyers for anything you could reasonably expect as a return. We need to keep all of them until we know what we have in them and/or the become too expensive to keep all

but having them all lessens their value to one another. You are seeing the same thing with the sixers. You can't play embiid , noel, okafor saric , simmons in the 4 and 5 positions and allow them to get the minutes to showcase what they are capable of. By having all those assets it hinders their value .

Same with our D , Just look at Morin. A guy many of of think may poteintally have some offensive value will never touch the ice in a offensive role with a flyers jersey simply because we have 4 dmen who project to be better than morin in that regard. Does that mean Morin does not have 30-40 pt potential? No , but it means he will never realize that potential in a flyers uniform.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

We have 6 slots they can play in. If we have 3 great d pairs for a few years that can all play 20 minutes a night I'll take that over what they could potentially bring back right now

 

[LI Fly Guy]

but having them all lessens their value to one another. You are seeing the same thing with the sixers. You can't play embiid , noel, okafor saric , simmons in the 4 and 5 positions and allow them to get the minutes to showcase what they are capable of. By having all those assets it hinders their value .

Same with our D , Just look at Morin. A guy many of of think may poteintally have some offensive value will never touch the ice in a offensive role with a flyers jersey simply because we have 4 dmen who project to be better than morin in that regard. Does that mean Morin does not have 30-40 pt potential? No , but it means he will never realize that potential in a flyers uniform.

It going to totally suck having 4 maybe even 5 stud defensmen, we need more wingers who can't play defense!

 

[Random Forest]

but having them all lessens their value to one another. You are seeing the same thing with the sixers. You can't play embiid , noel, okafor saric , simmons in the 4 and 5 positions and allow them to get the minutes to showcase what they are capable of. By having all those assets it hinders their value .

Same with our D , Just look at Morin. A guy many of of think may poteintally have some offensive value will never touch the ice in a offensive role with a flyers jersey simply because we have 4 dmen who project to be better than morin in that regard. Does that mean Morin does not have 30-40 pt potential? No , but it means he will never realize that potential in a flyers uniform.

Good thing the point of hockey is to win and not simply maximize the value of your individual assets then.

 

[Jtown]

We have 6 slots they can play in. If we have 3 great d pairs for a few years that can all play 20 minutes a night I'll take that over what they could potentially bring back right now

right but not all 6 slots are even correct? For instance on dzone faceoffs certain dmen take over those assignments, and vice versa for ozone faceoffs. Do you think it is in our best interest to play morin over ghost, provorov and sanheim in the ozone faceoffs ?


Do you think becuase of that , that will lessen his overall value any mitigate and potentiall offensive contribution he could make? do you think that could poentianlly pigeon hole him into a role in the nhl that he most likekly will never get out of?

 

[deadhead]

Yeah, Ghost didn't have much of an impact last year.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I'm not even sure if Hextall & co would want Hall. Dudes a ****ing dog out there which is likely why Edmonton moved him in the first place. He only plays when the puck is on his stick. He doesn't back check at all.

 

[Random Forest]

I'm not even sure if Hextall & co would want Hall. Dudes a ****ing dog out there which is likely why Edmonton moved him in the first place. He only plays when the puck is on his stick. He doesn't back check at all.

I don't think it's going to be very long until he becomes one of those talented players who really pisses his own fans off. A lot like Nash. Being on the Oilers masked his deficiencies since you could chalk it up to his team being a dumpster fire, but he won't get away with it on another team.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

right but not all 6 slots are even correct? For instance on dzone faceoffs certain dmen take over those assignments, and vice versa for ozone faceoffs. Do you think it is in our best interest to play morin over ghost, provorov and sanheim in the ozone faceoffs ?


Do you think becuase of that , that will lessen his overall value any mitigate and potentiall offensive contribution he could make? do you think that could poentianlly pigeon hole him into a role in the nhl that he most likekly will never get out of?

If they all develop like we hope and come close to their potentials there won't be a zone or situation that we would really have to worry about with any of them. They could all play about 20 minutes a night and split dzone face offs. The biggest problem would be the availability of power play time. At most 4 of them could play on the power play.

If you trade one you better hope you make the right decision on who to trade. At this point the only one we know anything about at the NHL level is Ghost.

 

[LI Fly Guy]

If they all develop like we hope and come close to their potentials there won't be a zone or situation that we would really have to worry about with any of them. They could all play about 20 minutes a night and split dzone face offs. The biggest problem would be the availability of power play time. At most 4 of them could play on the power play.

That's what they call "a good problem to have" or a "luxury"

 

[achdumeingute]

but having them all lessens their value to one another. You are seeing the same thing with the sixers. You can't play embiid , noel, okafor saric , simmons in the 4 and 5 positions and allow them to get the minutes to showcase what they are capable of. By having all those assets it hinders their value .

Same with our D , Just look at Morin. A guy many of of think may poteintally have some offensive value will never touch the ice in a offensive role with a flyers jersey simply because we have 4 dmen who project to be better than morin in that regard. Does that mean Morin does not have 30-40 pt potential? No , but it means he will never realize that potential in a flyers uniform.

Its better to have a guy who is better forced to be on a lower line rather than having bad players play on a top line. Its outstanding to have picked Provo and Sanheim after Morin. Morin can EXCEL with only having top 4 expectation.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

That's what they call "a good problem to have" or a "luxury"

I'm all for it. I hope they all reach their potential including Hagg and we have a chance at a few cups with an amazing defense

 

[LI Fly Guy]

Talking about trading Ghost for Taylor Hall when we can sign Okposo or Ericsson and keep everyone. What a time to be alive.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don't think it's going to be very long until he becomes one of those talented players who really pisses his own fans off. A lot like Nash. Being on the Oilers masked his deficiencies since you could chalk it up to his team being a dumpster fire, but he won't get away with it on another team.

I know McLellan tried to change the culture there this year & basically gave up on a lot of the guys who've been there for too long. A lot of those guys are so used to doing whatever they want because management allowed it for so long, A lot of these guys would set up high in their own zone waiting for the defense to get back the puck & get it back to them. They wouldn't back check & they go off for changes in the middle of the other team taking the puck up ice. It's embarrassing what those guys were allowed to do there over the years & they wonder why they are where are. Hall's pretty much the epitome of that.

 

[achdumeingute]

Talking about trading Ghost for Taylor Hall when we can sign Okposo or Ericsson and keep everyone. What a time to be alive.

IMO Hall is better offensively, younger and cheaper (currently, with UFA expectations) of that group.

Such is UFA these days, overpay for lesser talent.

 

[LI Fly Guy]

IMO Hall is better offensively, younger and cheaper of that group.

Such is UFA these days, overpay for lesser talent.

Without a doubt. But give me any of those guys overpaid along with Ghost on this team than having Hall and not Ghost. That's the point I'm trying to make. Yes wingers as good as Hall rarely hit the market. But you can get good wingers easier than you can a Dman like Ghost.