Post-Game Talk: Habs win 3-2 in OT in Arizona! Hoffman with the winner!

[Habs Halifax]

I just think Harris is soft, and besides the odd good outlet pass I don't see how he can be counted on in a tight game or series down the road, he's not physical at all. Remains to be seen about Hutson and that tiny body, that's why I'm sour on him too... but I hope he can fill out and be the quarterback we need. I don't know what we are building either, because if we are rebuilding why are we using Wideman, Dadano and Armia on special teams instead of our awesome kids? Guhle, Arbs and Slav should be getting that ice time when your PP is dead last.

I don't think he soft like Mete but yeah, he's not going to turn the physical meter for what a D can do. I just don't have him penciled in as a future top 4D solution. Tough things to say on Harris who is a rookie so if he don't like it, prove me wrong. We want to be wrong.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

I don't think he soft like Mete but yeah, he's not going to turn the physical meter for what a D can do. I just don't have him penciled in as a future top 4D solution. Tough things to say on Harris who is a rookie so if he don't like it, prove me wrong. We want to be wrong.

Issue I've always had with him is lack of tools. What does he bring to the table other than just being there and not screwing up too much?

I feel like he'd be a decent bottom pairing guy at a low price for a cap-strapped team but not much more than that.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

So... this team is supposed to be better than Ducharme's team, right? These are some very telling stats. And this doesn't include, of course, the greatest stat of them all - scoring on PP. Sigh. Why I compare this to Ducharme's team is not really the stats though... I mean you can't hope for much better with the group that only has 3 NHL forwards and 3 NHL dman. It's the vibe and lack of any visibly enthusiasm, feistiness, competitiveness that gives me the Ducharme vibes. When St Louis first came there was that feeling of the new, fresh, different... I suppose you can go only as far on sheer enthusiasm and good will before you regress back to the state that reflects the talent level of both hockey players and the coaching staff.

View attachment 624337

Can't expect much out of a lineup like that, so I won't hold it against a rookie like MSL. A bit of perspective here though. We were 7-20-5 last year after 32. 19 vs 32 points. You can't stand there and say it's the same when they have 13 more points than last year.

The big difference is that the youth is developing. Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Ghule and Jackeye have all progressed and that's all you can really ask for at this point.

This false equivalency of MSL = Ducharme needs to stop.

 

[Habs]

I don't think he soft like Mete but yeah, he's not going to turn the physical meter for what a D can do. I just don't have him penciled in as a future top 4D solution. Tough things to say on Harris who is a rookie so if he don't like it, prove me wrong. We want to be wrong.

I don't think he means to be soft ,that's just not his style of play. Edmundson used to be a tough guy to play against, now he's a total creampuff too.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Issue I've always had with him is lack of tools. What does he bring to the table other than just being there and not screwing up too much?

I feel like he'd be a decent bottom pairing guy at a low price for a cap-strapped team but not much more than that.

I tend to agree. He's on the Dermott and Sandin track. Maybe Beaulieu as well. He doesn't suck but penciling him as a future top 4D solution is very premature and I just don't see it.

If Harris is in your top 4D in 3-5 years, he either shows us something we don't see today or we are not a contender and we are still struggling to fill our our D in terms of moving the needle.

He has good hockey IQ, skating, and vision. I like that but my eyes are on what the player would look like when the going gets rough in the playoffs.

 

[BLONG7]

Did Guhlie get added to the top PP or the #2 PP last night?

I have always wondered why most teams just have a main unit, and use those guys for almost the full two minutes, and the habs send out a 2nd unit with a mish mash of vets that we have right now?

 

[hvac412]

What blows my mind is that nobody in the media is questioning Marty's PP... like are they that jaded?

Stu Cowan

No, actually, it is a science bud

It's just that hockey managers are not trained scientists.



At this rate, either he quits or takes advil as his sponsor

Serves him right for keeping Burrows around,also said it before give these players to much rope and they will eat you alive,yes you can have fun but in the end it's a job Marty.I didn't watch the game but apparently from what I'm reading they didn't get the message.One thing for sure I'm not dedicating my Sat. nights for this crap.

 

[Runner77]

Can't expect much out of a lineup like that, so I won't hold it against a rookie like MSL. A bit of perspective here though. We were 7-20-5 last year after 32. 19 vs 32 points. You can't stand there and say it's the same when they have 13 more points than last year.

The big difference is that the youth is developing. Suzuki, Caufield, Dach, Ghule and Jackeye have all progressed and that's all you can really ask for at this point.

This false equivalency of MSL = Ducharme needs to stop.

Without bringing Ducharme into the discussion, we were leading the league in man games lost to injury last season. Would that not have also played a role in last season’s record?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Without bringing Ducharme into the discussion, we were leading the league in man games lost to injury last season. Would that not have also played a role on last season’s record?

I doubt that it can explain such a wide margin in points. Like last year, we have Price missing and we've lost quite a few players that were good vets which Ducharme had, like Lekhonen, Toffoli and Chiarot. They are not -injuries-, but they count just as much when comparing what was there then and what we have now.

 

[Runner77]

I doubt that it can explain such a wide margin in points. Like last year, we have Price missing and we've lost quite a few players that were good vets which Ducharme had, like Lekhonen, Toffoli and Chiarot. They are not -injuries-, but they count just as much when comparing what was there then and what we have now.

Only mentioning man games lost on account of the Habs having obliterated the record by over 100 games that had been set 20 years before by the Kings. I don’t think we’re on pace for anything close to that this season.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Only mentioning man games lost on account of the Habs having obliterated the record by over 100 games that had been set 20 years before by the Kings. I don’t think we’re on pace for anything close to that this season.

Montreal has already pilled significant injuries so far at the 32 game mark. We are sitting at #4 with 187 (dec 16th). Edit: Habs were at 212 at the same date last year. 25 in 32 games is really not significant.

Price, Matheson, Monahan, Drouin, Savard, Edmundson, Byron, Gallagher and I forget some. Then add the players that Ducharme had and who have left since; Lekhonen, Toffoli, Chiarot. We are not getting contributions from them.

We were also missing Weber, part of the injuries last year, but this year he's replaced by Dud-onov and that doesn't appear in the injuries, but really, between missing Weber and having Dud-onov replace him, there really isn't a whole lot of difference, I'd even wager the latter is far worst because he's such a hindrance. It's far worst for the optics.

The one significant difference is Allen not missing games, but that doesn't explain how Monty is doing much better too.

Also of note, Toronto is among the present leaders in MGLI, missing 224 games (Edit), yet it doesn't seem to affect their standings.



Edit: Habs were at 212 at the same date last year:



I think we can rest the whole injury argument.

 

[the valiant effort]

Reilly, Muzzin…who else are the Leafs missing to add up to over 200?

 

[Runner77]

Montreal has already pilled significant injuries so far at the 32 game mark. We are sitting at #4 with 187 (dec 16th). Edit: Habs were at 212 at the same date last year. 25 in 32 games is really not significant.

Price, Matheson, Monahan, Drouin, Savard, Edmundson, Byron, Gallagher and I forget some. Then add the players that Ducharme had and who have left since; Lekhonen, Toffoli, Chiarot. We are not getting contributions from them.

We were also missing Weber, part of the injuries last year, but this year he's replaced by Dud-onov and that doesn't appear in the injuries, but really, between missing Weber and having Dud-onov replace him, there really isn't a whole lot of difference, I'd even wager the latter is far worst because he's such a hindrance. It's far worst for the optics.

The one significant difference is Allen not missing games, but that doesn't explain how Monty is doing much better too.

Also of note, Toronto is among the present leaders in MGLI, missing 224 games (Edit), yet it doesn't seem to affect their standings.



Edit: Habs were at 212 at the same date last year:



I think we can rest the whole injury argument.

Not really. Your example with Toronto doesn’t hold up. Their top players are not out of the lineup. Regardless, I’m not going to spend my afternoon going on with an endless tirade about how a record season of lost man games can impact results. I can’t get to where you are at and will not put anything to rest — it’s a contributing factor no matter how often or how much your posts are downplaying it.

Agree to disagree. Enjoy your afternoon.

 

[Runner77]

I think it's to the point now Slafv is getting purposely targeted. Like he has a bullseye on him. It's like almost every game someone is looking to take his head off. Wether he has his head up or down.

Posted this in the Slaf thread — pretty obvious that the whole league is aware. I hope opponents are not making bets on who nails him first or worst.

 

[Runner77]

HuGo should've punted these guys to Laval after pre-season when they showed nothing, instead of making them Marty's problem.

That’s an interesting take. I thought this whole time that Gorton, Hughes and Marty were as thick as thieves and would have been on the same wavelength about the plan for these deadweight players.

Maybe Hughes’ hands are tied for now?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Not really. Your example with Toronto doesn’t hold up. Their top players are not out of the lineup. Regardless, I’m not going to spend my afternoon going on with an endless tirade about how a record season of lost man games can impact results. I can’t get to where you are at and will not put anything to rest — it’s a contributing factor no matter how often or how much your posts are downplaying it.

Agree to disagree. Enjoy your afternoon.

212 vs 187 games so far

The difference at the same date is insignificant, yet you just talk about my Toronto argument.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Reilly, Muzzin…who else are the Leafs missing to add up to over 200?

Lilijegren was out for awhile. He missed beginning of season. Jarnkrok & Murray too. Probably others here & there.

As long as they have Marner, Nylander, Matthews & Tavares going they're fine. They're playing a much more conservative D to protect the defense which has seen the most injuries.

 

[hvac412]

Just got done watching barely two periods of last night's game couldn't stand it anymore our game was not great that's for sure but holy crap this refereeing is a complete joke , there was a clear slash on Guhle right in front of the referee/striped jackass before they tied it up, I guess we're still paying for Marty's press conference .

 

[JianYang]

That was an awful game. Guhle, Montembeault, Richard & sometimes the Suzuki line deserved this win. The rest of the lineup .... bleh.

We didn't deserve a point nevermind 2, but if we continue to play this way, I expect we're not winning another game this road trip. This win was important to keep some morale going.

PP continues to suck yet somehow Guhle & Xhekaj aren't getting opportunities before Wideman & Drouin on point, or Slafkovsky before Dadonov ... yeah, ok.

The number of odd man rushes that are coming out of the blue are especially mind boggling.

It's almost as if they are trying to be outnumbered.

That was the textbook definition of an ugly win, and certainly not a sustainable recipe for success.

 

[JianYang]

Just got done watching barely two periods of last night's game couldn't stand it anymore our game was not great that's for sure but holy crap this refereeing is a complete joke , there was a clear slash on Guhle right in front of the referee/striped jackass before they tied it up, I guess we're still paying for Marty's press conference .

I thought Marty was pretty composed after that game. He held back alot, and it sure as heck felt that one referee had some sort of agenda against Montreal.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Posted this in the Slaf thread — pretty obvious that the whole league is aware. I hope opponents are not making bets on who nails him first or worst.

He needs to start pushing back instead of just taking it. Try some reverse hits. He hasn't gotten his man strength yet though. He's still a kid. He's big, but like Guhle not Xhekaj. Eventually, he'll be more like Xhekaj & guys won't go near him because they'll bounce off him, or he'll hurt them.

I'm not worried about him at all. He had his head up and saw it all the way.

If we get some players back, I'd go back to giving him "training" days, where they give him a game off here & there to work on his overall game. That was built into the development plan for him. MSL said as much during training camp, as it is, they've needed him to play and that plan has gone out the window.

 

[JianYang]

He needs to start pushing back instead of just taking it. Try some reverse hits. He hasn't gotten his man strength yet though. He's still a kid. He's big, but like Guhle not Xhekaj. Eventually, he'll be more like Xhekaj & guys won't go near him because they'll bounce off him, or he'll hurt them.

I'm not worried about him at all. He had his head up and saw it all the way.

If we get some players back, I'd go back to giving him "training" days, where they give him a game off here & there to work on his overall game. That was built into the development plan for him. MSL said as much during training camp, as it is, they've needed him to play and that plan has gone out the window.

I don't know if it's about strength as much as it is about situational awareness.

Some of these collisions and near collisions he has in open ice are avoidable, and I do see some shades of lindros the way he exposes himself in vulnerable areas of the ice.

He's got to adapt and learn before its too late. Simply fighting back will deter some players but definitely not all.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I don't know if it's about strength as much as it is about situational awareness.

Some of these collisions and near collisions he has in open ice are avoidable, and I do see some shades of lindros the way he exposes himself in vulnerable areas of the ice.

He's got to adapt and learn before its too late. Simply fighting back will deter some players but definitely not all.

He'll adapt. Game is faster than he's used too. He's improved a lot already regardless of him struggling a bit in this game. He was getting visibly frustrated with himself, so he completely understands his situation and is self-aware.

I believe in his ability to work on his game and get better.

 

[hvac412]

I thought Marty was pretty composed after that game. He held back alot, and it sure as heck felt that one referee had some sort of agenda against Montreal.

Didn't watch last night's press conference , sounds like he's learning .I was referring to the press conference a couple of games ago where they asked him what he thought of the officiating and his response was "well you saw the game right ! "

 

[NHLInjuryViz]

Reilly, Muzzin…who else are the Leafs missing to add up to over 200?

I'll stress that they're still top 5-10 in injuries regardless, but 90+ of that number is due to six players who've spent time on Season Opening IR who either very likely wouldn't be on the roster anyway (Abramov, Amirov, Kressler, Rindell, Woll) or were marginal to do so at best (Dahlström).

The Habs had a couple of players (Heineman and Mailloux) spend a few games on SOIR too, but that's about 17 games' worth. But then I don't count Price in their numbers either, which I'll avoid getting into after being shouted at for a year by everyone telling me Shea Weber hadn't retired...