Confirmed with Link: Habs Sign Galchenyuk to 3 year deal, $4.9M AAV

[CauZuki]

As Habs fans, and certainly as one who has seen almost every Habs game since Galchenyuk joined the team, we've watched Galchenyuk for 5 years now. If you aren't from Halifax or Tampa Bay, you probably can't say the same thing about Drouin.

Sure. Career highs so far, both at age 21:
Galchenyuk - 56
Drouin - 53

Guess we're back to the skills and potential evaluation to see the real differences...

So we ignore the fact that Galchenyuk has more points on a less offensive team. (got it)

Sorry, but skills evaluations are subjective. Outside of video games there aren't stats for shot, stickhandling, endurance, etc. With skill and experience, you evaluate the tools and the package. I'm not interested in hypotheticals of what could happen or how Galchenyuk could become as/more valuable. As it stands now, today, he's not. The only stat needed to prove that right now is their salaries.

As I mentioned salary is a case by case thing , the Drouin contract had a PR element to it as well (sign the local guy long term) doesn't speak to potential ceiling at all. (since many pundits agree that the contract could be very dangerous if he ends up hitting his full potential)

You can find it funny all you want. I've been watching both a tonne, for years. It is what it is, but it's also just my opinion. Well, not JUST mine, most outside of this board would certainly agree, too. But you're addressing me, so take it as the opinion of one guy who has watched more of these guys than most. Well... you can form your opinion weighing whatever you want as heavily as you want. I've been doing the same. But realize you have less of a leg to stand on arguing that Galchenyuk is either better or more valuable than the reverse.

This absolutely untrue and if you look in this same thread I've posted half a dozen articles from sports writer that clearly show the things that Galchenyuk brings to the table (quantified using regular & advanced stats).

My opinion is based on stats , seeing them both play (although I've seen a lot more of Galchenyuk) & common sense.
The idea that your opinion somehow outweighs mine just based on your own experience is absolutely ridiculous. How can you say that when you have no idea what I've watched and just because I'm not from Halifax means I can't compare the two? (what kind of premise is that??)

Here are the facts (and they don't care about your feelings) :

- Galchenyuk produced more at the same age on a more offensively anemic team.
- Galchenyuk as a Center if he reaches his potential will be more valuable than Drouin if he reaches his ceiling. (since they both project to being ppg players but Centers are usually more valuable than wingers).
- Galchenyuk leads his draft year in goals , points while averaging 1.5 minutes less of ice time per game than the top 10 forwards in his draft year.
- Galchenyuk reached a new high in assists the past year despite missing 25% of the season.
- Galchenyuk was top 5/10 in the league to start the season and kept a 70 point pace in between September 2015 and his injury in December 2016. (http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...16-12-04&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points)

So essentially you have an issue with him being among the top 15 in goals and top 35 in points over 1.25 seasons. While emphasizing his lackluster play when coming back from injuries (even then he nearly broke a Habs record for game winning goals). Is there a particular reason you are trying so hard to minimize Galchenyuks talents will emphasizing his weaknesses?
Seems like an agenda to me , especially when I've shown I can praise Drouin without having to bring down our homegrown 3rd overall pick.

Can you speak to Drouins weaknesses please? Especially when mentioning what you don't like about Galchenyuk's game.

Can't wait to see which of the two gets first crack at it...because one of them will have to be one of our 2 top 6C's

I unfortunately don't see a scenario where Drouin plays C he has little experience at the NHL level and his stats are worse than Galchenyuk at nearly all Center metrics.
I'm sure anything is possible and they might give a try if Galchenyuk really falters at C , I see no reason to do so assuming Galchenyuk returns to his pre-injury form.
Besides Drouins game screams elite winger , I know that once they give Galchenyuk his chance and assuming no freak injuries we should be in for a treat.

Drouin - Galchenyuk - Lekhonen
Pacioretty - Danault - Gallagher
Byron - Plekanec - Shaw/Hemsky

Could be very interesting.

 

[MXD]

Actually, since when producing on a weaker offensive team is necessarily a plus?

 

[le_sean]

Actually, since when producing on a weaker offensive team is necessarily a plus?

Or pretending that playing with Pacioretty and Radulov is similar to playing with Boyle and Killorn.

 

[CauZuki]

Actually, since when producing on a weaker offensive team is necessarily a plus?

Do you think if Panarin produces less in Columbus he is automatically playing worse? The reality is many players produce differently with different linemates/systems. I would think producing 70 points in Nashville would be more impressive than 70 points playing in Chicago. Especially if the team plays a style that emphasizes defensive approach (less aggressive/protect the lead). Look at Toronto they play a more offensive style they had 7 players reach 50+ points , does that necessarily mean that those players would all produce the same way in the Habs system?

Or pretending that playing with Pacioretty and Radulov is similar to playing with Boyle and Killorn.

Yeah lets ignore that 40% of his points came from the powerplay and he mostly played with Kucherov ,Palat and Point on the powerplay. Let's also ignore that Tampa is one of the offensive leaders in the NHL. I'm not trying to belittle his skillset since I do believe he can be a perennial 70-80 point winger. I just don't understand why many posters are so quick to put Drouin on a pedestal (what I like to call shinny new toy syndrome). While ignoring all the good that Galchenyuk has done , especially when considering that he is always worked hard to improve his game.

 

[1909]

We have BOTH, Drouin and Galchenyuk on OUR team. Can we enjoy it for a while ?

Didn't we have enough of DD vs Eller, and Subban vs Weber ?

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Or pretending that playing with Pacioretty and Radulov is similar to playing with Boyle and Killorn.

Did Chucky really play with Patches and Radulov all that much? I thought it was Philip Desharnault who mooched off them for the majority of the season (esp the times when our team couldn't buy a goal).

We have BOTH, Drouin and Galchenyuk on OUR team. Can we enjoy it for a while ?

Didn't we have enough of DD vs Eller, and Subban vs Weber ?

Subban and Weber never played together. But I agree.

I don't understand why this is even a discussion.

 

[Toene]

So we ignore the fact that Galchenyuk has more points on a less offensive team. (got it)



As I mentioned salary is a case by case thing , the Drouin contract had a PR element to it as well (sign the local guy long term) doesn't speak to potential ceiling at all. (since many pundits agree that the contract could be very dangerous if he ends up hitting his full potential)



This absolutely untrue and if you look in this same thread I've posted half a dozen articles from sports writer that clearly show the things that Galchenyuk brings to the table (quantified using regular & advanced stats).

My opinion is based on stats , seeing them both play (although I've seen a lot more of Galchenyuk) & common sense.
The idea that your opinion somehow outweighs mine just based on your own experience is absolutely ridiculous. How can you say that when you have no idea what I've watched and just because I'm not from Halifax means I can't compare the two? (what kind of premise is that??)

Here are the facts (and they don't care about your feelings) :

- Galchenyuk produced more at the same age on a more offensively anemic team.
- Galchenyuk as a Center if he reaches his potential will be more valuable than Drouin if he reaches his ceiling. (since they both project to being ppg players but Centers are usually more valuable than wingers).
- Galchenyuk leads his draft year in goals , points while averaging 1.5 minutes less of ice time per game than the top 10 forwards in his draft year.
- Galchenyuk reached a new high in assists the past year despite missing 25% of the season.
- Galchenyuk was top 5/10 in the league to start the season and kept a 70 point pace in between September 2015 and his injury in December 2016. (http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...16-12-04&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points)

So essentially you have an issue with him being among the top 15 in goals and top 35 in points over 1.25 seasons. While emphasizing his lackluster play when coming back from injuries (even then he nearly broke a Habs record for game winning goals). Is there a particular reason you are trying so hard to minimize Galchenyuks talents will emphasizing his weaknesses?
Seems like an agenda to me , especially when I've shown I can praise Drouin without having to bring down our homegrown 3rd overall pick.

Can you speak to Drouins weaknesses please? Especially when mentioning what you don't like about Galchenyuk's game.




I unfortunately don't see a scenario where Drouin plays C he has little experience at the NHL level and his stats are worse than Galchenyuk at nearly all Center metrics.
I'm sure anything is possible and they might give a try if Galchenyuk really falters at C , I see no reason to do so assuming Galchenyuk returns to his pre-injury form.
Besides Drouins game screams elite winger , I know that once they give Galchenyuk his chance and assuming no freak injuries we should be in for a treat.

Drouin - Galchenyuk - Lekhonen
Pacioretty - Danault - Gallagher
Byron - Plekanec - Shaw/Hemsky

Could be very interesting.

This is the top-9 lines I hope for too.

 

[LaP]

Did Chucky really play with Patches and Radulov all that much? I thought it was Philip Desharnault who mooched off them for the majority of the season (esp the times when our team couldn't buy a goal).

No he did not. Before his injury he played with Byron and Radulov. Byron is a 3rd line player. Radulov according to many here is nothing special just an average 50 points winger like many other wingers in the league. It's not according to me it's according to lot of posters around here.

After his injury he played with Patch and Radu for a while. Maybe 10 games or so. Then he was sent to the wing playing mainly with 3rd line grinders for the rest of the year.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

So we ignore the fact that Galchenyuk has more points on a less offensive team. (got it)

More opportunity on a less offensive team vs. less opportunity on a more offensive team. Guess what...

56 vs 53

Not that raw points are the be-all, end-all of anything anyway.

As I mentioned salary is a case by case thing , the Drouin contract had a PR element to it as well (sign the local guy long term) doesn't speak to potential ceiling at all. (since many pundits agree that the contract could be very dangerous if he ends up hitting his full potential)

Drouin, at age 22, going from $3M/year to over $6M in salary doesn't speak to potential ceiling? Are you even serious?

This absolutely untrue and if you look in this same thread I've posted half a dozen articles from sports writer that clearly show the things that Galchenyuk brings to the table (quantified using regular & advanced stats).

My opinion is based on stats , seeing them both play (although I've seen a lot more of Galchenyuk) & common sense.
The idea that your opinion somehow outweighs mine just based on your own experience is absolutely ridiculous. How can you say that when you have no idea what I've watched and just because I'm not from Halifax means I can't compare the two? (what kind of premise is that??)

Here are the facts (and they don't care about your feelings) :

- Galchenyuk produced more at the same age on a more offensively anemic team.
- Galchenyuk as a Center if he reaches his potential will be more valuable than Drouin if he reaches his ceiling. (since they both project to being ppg players but Centers are usually more valuable than wingers).
- Galchenyuk leads his draft year in goals , points while averaging 1.5 minutes less of ice time per game than the top 10 forwards in his draft year.
- Galchenyuk reached a new high in assists the past year despite missing 25% of the season.
- Galchenyuk was top 5/10 in the league to start the season and kept a 70 point pace in between September 2015 and his injury in December 2016. (http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...16-12-04&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=points)

You can rationalize it as elaborately as you want, it changes nothing. I think most people who know what they're talking about would agree that you throw more money at Drouin than Galchenyuk. If you disagree, that's fine. If you don't disagree, then maybe revisit/re-think your criteria above, because obviously most of it would have to be fairly irrelevant or framed with the wrong perspective, at least.

So essentially you have an issue with him being among the top 15 in goals and top 35 in points over 1.25 seasons. While emphasizing his lackluster play when coming back from injuries (even then he nearly broke a Habs record for game winning goals). Is there a particular reason you are trying so hard to minimize Galchenyuks talents will emphasizing his weaknesses?
Seems like an agenda to me , especially when I've shown I can praise Drouin without having to bring down our homegrown 3rd overall pick.

Are you claiming I'm "bringing Galchenyuk down"? By saying he doesn't have as much to offer as Drouin? Give me a break. You're not the first to inject something you want to argue against into my posts, but it still gets tedious to address.

Can you speak to Drouins weaknesses please? Especially when mentioning what you don't like about Galchenyuk's game.

See the Drouin thread, where we talk about him.

I unfortunately don't see a scenario where Drouin plays C he has little experience at the NHL level and his stats are worse than Galchenyuk at nearly all Center metrics.

Neither has much experience at the position, but the eye test certainly suggests that one would be more "suitable" for the role than the other, stats be damned. It's entirely possible, however, that neither guy ever blossoms into that role. Only the defensive side can hold Drouin back, while Galchenyuk's puck management (a problem Drouin decidedly doesn't have) is an extra element beyond the defense that might see him stay on the wing instead.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Do you think if Panarin produces less in Columbus he is automatically playing worse? The reality is many players produce differently with different linemates/systems. I would think producing 70 points in Nashville would be more impressive than 70 points playing in Chicago. Especially if the team plays a style that emphasizes defensive approach (less aggressive/protect the lead). Look at Toronto they play a more offensive style they had 7 players reach 50+ points , does that necessarily mean that those players would all produce the same way in the Habs system?



Yeah lets ignore that 40% of his points came from the powerplay and he mostly played with Kucherov ,Palat and Point on the powerplay. Let's also ignore that Tampa is one of the offensive leaders in the NHL. I'm not trying to belittle his skillset since I do believe he can be a perennial 70-80 point winger. I just don't understand why many posters are so quick to put Drouin on a pedestal (what I like to call shinny new toy syndrome). While ignoring all the good that Galchenyuk has done , especially when considering that he is always worked hard to improve his game.

I think you are being overly defensive of Galchenyuk.

They are both very talented but Drouin has a distinct advantage in skating and hockey IQ. Neither one should play center next season but I suspect Galchenyuk will be forced to by default.

Considering their ages and the final 40 games for both players it is beginning to sound silly how you are grasping at straws to try and pretend that they are equals. If you actually watched Drouin last season we would not be having this discussion.

I have always been a fan of Galchenyuk but have always known that Drouin is the superior talent. If we did a poll of NHL GM's do you really think that any where near half of them prefer Galchenyuk......?

 

[CauZuki]

More opportunity on a less offensive team vs. less opportunity on a more offensive team. Guess what...

56 vs 53

Not that raw points are the be-all, end-all of anything anyway.



Drouin, at age 22, going from $3M/year to over $6M in salary doesn't speak to potential ceiling? Are you even serious?



You can rationalize it as elaborately as you want, it changes nothing. I think most people who know what they're talking about would agree that you throw more money at Drouin than Galchenyuk. If you disagree, that's fine. If you don't disagree, then maybe revisit/re-think your criteria above, because obviously most of it would have to be fairly irrelevant or framed with the wrong perspective, at least.



Are you claiming I'm "bringing Galchenyuk down"? By saying he doesn't have as much to offer as Drouin? Give me a break. You're not the first to inject something you want to argue against into my posts, but it still gets tedious to address.



See the Drouin thread, where we talk about him.



Neither has much experience at the position, but the eye test certainly suggests that one would be more "suitable" for the role than the other, stats be damned. It's entirely possible, however, that neither guy ever blossoms into that role. Only the defensive side can hold Drouin back, while Galchenyuk's puck management (a problem Drouin decidedly doesn't have) is an extra element beyond the defense that might see him stay on the wing instead.

I don't see a point in reiterating my posts when I've given stats and apparently some posters eye test trumps all facts and metrics.

My last question is if in this scenario Galchenyuk playing C, flourishes under that role and he puts up a 70 points is he then still worth less than Drouin? (assuming Drouin puts up similar stats on wing)

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I don't see a point in reiterating my posts when I've given stats and apparently some posters eye test trumps all facts and metrics.

My last question is if in this scenario Galchenyuk playing C, flourishes under that role and he puts up a 70 points is he then still worth less than Drouin? (assuming Drouin puts up similar stats on wing)

Any player can increase/decrease their value with their play/development. There's nothing earth-shattering about that. Your hypothetical situation doesn't interest me in the least. As it stands right now, Drouin is, most likely, our best and most valuable forward. There is nothing about that which reflects negatively on Galchenyuk, no matter how you interpret or twist it in that direction.

 

[CauZuki]

Any player can increase/decrease their value with their play/development. There's nothing earth-shattering about that. Your hypothetical situation doesn't interest me in the least. As it stands right now, Drouin is, most likely, our best and most valuable forward. There is nothing about that which reflects negatively on Galchenyuk, no matter how you interpret or twist it in that direction.

That's your take but to me it looks like there is nothing Galchenyuk can do in your eyes to outvalue Drouin and that's a scary notion.

I asked you a simple yes/no question and you were unable to answer it without platitudes.

 

[NobleSix]

Did Chucky really play with Patches and Radulov all that much? I thought it was Philip Desharnault who mooched off them for the majority of the season (esp the times when our team couldn't buy a goal).


Subban and Weber never played together. But I agree.

I don't understand why this is even a discussion.

Nope, he didnt. This is a huge misconception around here. He played with Radulov a tonne before his injury, with Byron on his left.

Galchenyuk barely played with Radulov at all after returning from injury though, and barely played with Pacioretty at all at any point last season. The most he played with them after coming back from injury was on the PP.

For whatever reason, Danault was stubbornly kept on that 1st line even after his production totally fell off a cliff at the midway point of the season.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Nope, he didnt. This is a huge misconception around here. He played with Radulov a tonne before his injury, with Byron on his left.

Galchenyuk barely played with Radulov at all after returning from injury though, and barely played with Pacioretty at all at any point last season. The most he played with them after coming back from injury was on the PP.

For whatever reason, Danault was stubbornly kept on that 1st line even after his production totally fell off a cliff at the midway point of the season.

Philip-David Desharnault is the new scapegoat, and for good reason. Dude was the reason we couldn't buy a goal in the second half of the year and in the playoffs. Brutally bad.

Chucky was bad in whatever ways he was, but I'm willing to bet a lot of it was due to confidence. This team has done a spectacular job of taking a hard-working, never-say-quit mentality and totally dismantling it over the years - imposing an overbearing, personal, intensely incompetant coach in Therrien does that to a team's mentality. Chucky is far from being the only one, Emelin, Petry, Beaulieu, all the busted prospects - they all waxed and waned in their performance with their confidence. Clod didn't show much else either, placing Chucky on a line with non-NHLers Martinsen and Ott.

But yeah, it's all Chucky's fault

 

[BaseballCoach]

Philip-David Desharnault is the new scapegoat, and for good reason. Dude was the reason we couldn't buy a goal in the second half of the year and in the playoffs. Brutally bad.

Chucky was bad in whatever ways he was, but I'm willing to bet a lot of it was due to confidence. This team has done a spectacular job of taking a hard-working, never-say-quit mentality and totally dismantling it over the years - imposing an overbearing, personal, intensely incompetant coach in Therrien does that to a team's mentality. Chucky is far from being the only one, Emelin, Petry, Beaulieu, all the busted prospects - they all waxed and waned in their performance with their confidence. Clod didn't show much else either, placing Chucky on a line with non-NHLers Martinsen and Ott.

But yeah, it's all Chucky's fault

Check the stats. Danault more ES points than Radulov, and his production did NOT fall off a cliff in the second half. He had 9 points in his first 26 games, as a bottom-six player, and 29 points in 47 games in the second part of the season as a Top-6 (15:01 o more of TOI).

 

[ColinO]

Check the stats. Danault more ES points than Radulov, and his production did NOT fall off a cliff in the second half. He had 9 points in his first 26 games, as a bottom-six player, and 29 points in 47 games in the second part of the season as a Top-6 (15:01 o more of TOI).

But Radulov is an $8 mill player. There's no way a 3rd or 4th line scrub like Danault could have gotten more points than him.

 

[MXD]

If you think Philip Danault is the kind of player on whom the load of the offense should rest on at NHL level, maybe it's time to reconsider whether you truly understand this game well enough to follow it to the point of posting on a dedicated message board.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Check the stats. Danault more ES points than Radulov, and his production did NOT fall off a cliff in the second half. He had 9 points in his first 26 games, as a bottom-six player, and 29 points in 47 games in the second part of the season as a Top-6 (15:01 o more of TOI).

Why ES points only? Goals are goals. I'm not even referring to stats, but his general play. He wasn't effective going forward. Our team wasn't effective going forward. In the playoffs Danault was one of our worst players, in fact.

Also, 29 in 47 is 0.6 PPG, which is a ~50 point paice... but is it really good to get 50 points playing with Pacioretty and Radulov? I think it's not good enough. And now that Rads is gone and an inferior RW will replace him, I doubt Danault flirts with 0.6ppg again - unless something really changes in his game.

If you think Philip Danault is the kind of player on whom the load of the offense should rest on at NHL level, maybe it's time to reconsider whether you truly understand this game well enough to follow it to the point of posting on a dedicated message board.

Well said burn aside... I don't think that at all.

Philip David Desharnault is going to get a lot of ice-time with players that are better than him. That's the concern. They did it before with Desharnais and wrecked the balance of the team, they'll do it again with Danault. Danault is a much better hockey player than Desharnais but he's still going to be overplayed and over-relied upon. Giving Chucky and whoever else tougher matchups, making them less effective.

 

[LaP]

Check the stats. Danault more ES points than Radulov, and his production did NOT fall off a cliff in the second half.

It did not fall off a cliff in the 2nd half but it did at the end of the season. Danault had 13 points in his last 31 games (February 1st to the end of the season). This is a pace of 34 points every 82 games and this while playing mostly with Patch and Radulov 17:04 minutes a game. If you consider this good be my guest. But reality is it's not at all. It's actually very bad. AG post this kind of production while playing 17 minutes a game with Patch and Radulov and he is out after not even 10 games.

 

[MXD]

Well said burn aside... I don't think that at all.

Philip David Desharnault is going to get a lot of ice-time with players that are better than him. That's the concern. They did it before with Desharnais and wrecked the balance of the team, they'll do it again with Danault. Danault is a much better hockey player than Desharnais but he's still going to be overplayed and over-relied upon. Giving Chucky and whoever else tougher matchups, making them less effective.

Whoever is playing Center on that line will end up playing with players better than him. Whether it's Desharnault, Bustchenyuk or Seniornek.

And WTH, Danault wasn't getting easy matchups when playing with Pacioretty and Radulov, and if he was, that was mostly on the opposite coach for not deploying his forwards in a intelligent manner...

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Whoever is playing Center on that line will end up playing with players better than him. Whether it's Desharnault, Bustchenyuk or Seniornek.

And WTH, Danault wasn't getting easy matchups when playing with Pacioretty and Radulov, and if he was, that was mostly on the opposite coach for not deploying his forwards in a intelligent manner...

Fair points, sure.

But Danault was poor in the last bit of the season and especially the playoffs. I'd rather see Chucky with Patches than more Danault. We're gonna see Danault though, because this organisation hates doing smart things.

 

[Belial]

Nope, he didnt. This is a huge misconception around here. He played with Radulov a tonne before his injury, with Byron on his left.

Galchenyuk barely played with Radulov at all after returning from injury though, and barely played with Pacioretty at all at any point last season. The most he played with them after coming back from injury was on the PP.

For whatever reason, Danault was stubbornly kept on that 1st line even after his production totally fell off a cliff at the midway point of the season.

Galchenyuk's most common linemates :

Radulov 445:46 TOI
Pacioretty 307:27 TOI
Gallagher 275:16 TOI
Lehkonen 256:12 TOI
Byron 249:22 TOI
Shaw 227:28 TOI

Misconception? More like denial from your part.

 

[MXD]

Fair points, sure.

But Danault was poor in the last bit of the season and especially the playoffs. I'd rather see Chucky with Patches than more Danault. We're gonna see Danault though, because this organisation hates doing smart things.

You realizes this means Danault will play with Drouin, right?

 

[MXD]

Galchenyuk's most common linemates :

Radulov 445:46 TOI
Pacioretty 307:27 TOI
Gallagher 275:16 TOI
Lehkonen 256:12 TOI
Byron 249:22 TOI
Shaw 227:28 TOI

Misconception? More like denial from your part.

This shows two things :
- That AG's most consistent linemates were Pacioretty and Radulov.
- That "consistent linemates" might be a misnomer.