Post-Game Talk: Habs lose game 3. Leafs lead 2-1

[abo9]

I really don't want to let him go ! I'm scared that he will sign for too much that that the pressure will suffocate him. I would not let go of Tatar either, I'm competely against losing assets for nothing and I feel that after a really good summer. The Habs are in direction for a really bad one and a big set back for 3 or 4 years because we will have a lot of loss for absolutely nothing.

I want to argue that he is overhyped and overused. He does bring things that are pretty valuable for a team.

I see them as "free" rentals. Usually you'd pay a couple futures (probably a 1st for each of them) to get those guys in for the playoffs.

So losing them in the Summer is just par for the course for rentals. We (very) fortunately did not have to give anything to get them though. Last year we should have done it - we were 26th and out of the playoff race, but I get that this year, MB was not gonna lose the chance for a run in the playoffs. His job is on the line after all

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

Zero flow to their game and the passing is horrid. No sustained attack at least until the third. That was a winnable game, despite how boring it was. Campbell saw pretty much everything. I don't know why the Habs play such a perimeter game. They should park Weber in front on the PP. He's useless on the point.

You raise a great point, for Habs or just in general: why is it such a big freaking deal to go to the “dirty” areas? Do some of the guys look in the mirror, with their 100 goals scored over seven seasons, and see Mike Bossy?

What is there to lose, other than the interest of NHL teams, by not going where the percentages suggest one might best be able to get a goal?

Are injuries mostly a by-product of driving to the net? I doubt it.

Team passing looked the blackshirts of a bottom feeder at training camp. God awful, and that surely helps make us look slow.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

If we have the means to chase a cup with Price, we should. He is too good to not at least try. These playoffs have dispelled any myth that he is not one of the greatest goalies on earth still.

We have a good core group, and some great pieces to upset teams on the back of Price. We should try to see that through, not just tank for lottery picks --- If Oilers moves McDavid or Sabres move Eichel + Senators, Red Wings, Ducks, Kings all suck.... going to be hard to be worse than those teams

They're all poised to do better

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I see them as "free" rentals. Usually you'd pay a couple futures (probably a 1st for each of them) to get those guys in for the playoffs.

So losing them in the Summer is just par for the course for rentals. We (very) fortunately did not have to give anything to get them though. Last year we should have done it - we were 26th and out of the playoff race, but I get that this year, MB was not gonna lose the chance for a run in the playoffs. His job is on the line after all

That's all fine and dandy as a perspective when you're all-in and you have a team built to compete. It becomes less forgiveable when the team isn't at that stage and all you're doing is setting yourself back for the future, no matter the spin job you come up with to justify losing those assets.

 

[Dhaemon]

Goes back further than 9yrs imo...

Habs won a Cup in 1993 based mostly on miraculous performances from Patrick Roy.

They've been trying to recreate that formula ever since.

Roy has always been my fav, but it wasn't just Roy.
If it wasn't for the stick call in game 2 and Eric Desjardins coming up big, we possibly never get to the Cup.

 

[abo9]

There's zero comparison to make between the value of a Danault and the value of a Gorges. They're not in the same stratosphere.

I'm not sure if you're defending Danault here or Gorges...

Imo Gorges was the much more important player. Such a beauty on the PK.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

Thing is tho, Gorges was never number 2.

06-07, he played 7 games
07-08, Markov, Hamrlik (arguably Komi too)
08-09, Markov, Hamrlik (arg. Schneider)
09-10 Markov, Hamrlik (add PK in the POs)
10-11 Hamrlik, Subban
11-12 Subban, toss between JG and Hamr
12-13 onwards: Markov, Subban

I can't believe we only had Hamrlik for 4 seasons. It felt like he was here for a decade

 

[abo9]

That's all fine and dandy as a perspective when you're all-in and you have a team built to compete. It becomes less forgiveable when the team isn't at that stage and all you're doing is setting yourself back for the future, no matter the spin job you come up with to justify losing those assets.

I would have traded them last year when we were 26th in the league.
This year MB was not gonna do it

 

[CHfan1]

 

[Miller Time]

weber... 2/11 in zone exits... nuff said.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Bruh....I didn't know you liked Ducharme this much.

I got the tattoo long before Dum Dom...loved that movie, creepy as Hell...goes with the Demonic Toys theme on my left arm...

...young and stupid, I was...well, younger and just as stupid LOL...

 

[417]

Roy has always been my fav, but it wasn't just Roy.
If it wasn't for the stick call in game 2 and Eric Desjardins coming up big, we possibly never get to the Cup.

Agreed....but the major storyline will always be Roy carrying the Habs.

There's always a need to make it all about the goalie in Montreal.

 

[Schwang]

You raise a great point, for Habs or just in general: why is it such a big freaking deal to go to the “dirty” areas? Do some of the guys look in the mirror, with their 100 goals scored over seven seasons, and see Mike Bossy?

What is there to lose, other than the interest of NHL teams, by not going where the percentages suggest one might best be able to get a goal?

Are injuries mostly a by-product of driving to the net? I doubt it.

Team passing looked the blackshirts of a bottom feeder at training camp. God awful, and that surely helps make us look slow.

Even Gally wasn't there much. And that's about all he can do to score goals.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Holy shit, Weber’s zone exits

 

[expy]

yeah I don't see that.

we had, again, great goaltending and spent the entire third, down a single goal, in their end. You have to focus on the process not just the results.

we have a lot to fix, but we held the much much more talented leafs team to 2 goals last night. Outside of game 2, goal scoring is even between the two teams.

I have no idea if we will advance, but if we do its gonna be on the backs of games like 1 and three,

Requiring Price to basically stand on his head to keep the game close shouldn't be part of the process.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Agreed....but the major storyline will always be Roy carrying the Habs.

There's always a need to make it all about the goalie in Montreal.

Wasn't always this way and won't always be this way. Question is, will we witness and live through the change?

 

[Mackiaveli]

we could have traded for picks or prospect and we lose them. We get "nothing" for the asset we lose.

Correct, but the reason they weren't traded was so that we could make a playoff push and contend. Unless we lose in 5, not trading Tatar/Danault was fine. If we lose in 5, then Bergevin is a goofball and he should be fired.

We get Hamilton and "something".

This is idealistic. In the actual NHL, teams are not going to just let you dump money on them. If you look at our players that we would want to move to dump their money (Byron, Chiarot, Weber) teams are going to ask us to pay them to take that money on. If we were to sign Tatar and Danault to extensions, we would not be trading them within 365 days for cap space - that just very rarely happens in the NHL. What we effectively lost by keeping them is a couple of late 2nd round draft picks or VERY late 1sts. What we got in return was a playoff run.

They're all poised to do better

Columbus will probably not get much better (48pts)
Red Wings don't have any big ticket players coming in to fix their team (48 points)
Blackhawks look like garbage and they don't have any gamebreakers in the pipeline as Kane gets older (55 points)
Sabres have been shit for years and if they move Eichel it will only get worse (37 points)
Devils are just flat out bad - nothing is saving them anytime short of a mircale (45 points)
Sharks are only going to continue to get worse as their core ages. Nothing in the pipeline to save them, and abysmal goaltending with limited cap flexibility (49 points)
Ducks are terrible - Zegras will be a huge addition and Gibson is amazing but they don't have much of anything offensively on that team and their market sucks for attracting free agents. Need massive growth from Comtois, Steel, Jones and Lunderstrom if they want a shot in hell of doing anything (43 points)
Kings aren't that great but with some trades could spice it up. This is the one team I suspect will surprise in 2021-2022 but their goaltending is a big ? still. (49 points)
Coyotes have been terrible for years and nothing will change that short of Matthews going there as a free agent in a few years (54 points)
Canucks are bad, and they might get better but their GM continually makes them worse so I wouldn't hold my breath. (50 points)
Senators are terrible but getting a lot better - another year or two and they might make some noise (51 points)
Calgary should be better next year.

Reasonably, the Habs could stink significantly enough to fall below some teams like the Canucks/Flames/Coyotes, and we could say that some team will come out and shock everyone (Anaheim + LA + Chicago) next year, but that still puts the Habs around a 7th overall pick. They aren't going to fall far enough, fast enough, to draft a player like Bedard or Wright unless Price stops playing and we play with 15+ million in cap space for the next few years.

 

[417]

One of the most noticeable Dmen in this series for both teams is rookie Rasmus Sandin.

A player emboldened by his head coach. Amazing what faith and confidence from your coach can do.

I'd give props to Keefe for this...but it's such basic shit.

Meanwhile...DD

 

[417]

Wasn't always this way and won't always be this way. Question is, will we witness and live through the change?

You sure about that?

I think the media that covers this team, the fans who follow it and the organization are all about having the goalie be "The Man".

I hope you're right but I have my doubts.

 

[Hins77]

Holy shit, Weber’s zone exits

Ducharmes thinks the lack of scoring is a problem made by the forward group. Hell no. I mean. They are a part of the problem, but the real and main part of the problem is the inhability from our D corp to transiitonning the puck on forward stick. Many of their pass are finished by turnovers, many are in skates forward, or by the board, or too long, thats awful to watch. It such frustratring for a forward. Cause you think you gonna receive that pass at the right place and finally. You have to use your energy for back checking and make a change up right after. Thats so frustratring, and whats this reactions brings? A less support by the forward group to the D corp so more space to leafs for scoring. They are tired and angry to use a lot energy to back checking so what are u doing if you want to keep it? Expense less energy in D zone. Thats a vicious circle

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Correct, but the reason they weren't traded was so that we could make a playoff push and contend. Unless we lose in 5, not trading Tatar/Danault was fine. If we lose in 5, then Bergevin is a goofball and he should be fired.



This is idealistic. In the actual NHL, teams are not going to just let you dump money on them. If you look at our players that we would want to move to dump their money (Byron, Chiarot, Weber) teams are going to ask us to pay them to take that money on. If we were to sign Tatar and Danault to extensions, we would not be trading them within 365 days for cap space - that just very rarely happens in the NHL. What we effectively lost by keeping them is a couple of late 2nd round draft picks or VERY late 1sts. What we got in return was a playoff run.



Columbus will probably not get much better (48pts)
Red Wings don't have any big ticket players coming in to fix their team (48 points)
Blackhawks look like garbage and they don't have any gamebreakers in the pipeline as Kane gets older (55 points)
Sabres have been shit for years and if they move Eichel it will only get worse (37 points)
Devils are just flat out bad - nothing is saving them anytime short of a mircale (45 points)
Sharks are only going to continue to get worse as their core ages. Nothing in the pipeline to save them, and abysmal goaltending with limited cap flexibility (49 points)
Ducks are terrible - Zegras will be a huge addition and Gibson is amazing but they don't have much of anything offensively on that team and their market sucks for attracting free agents. Need massive growth from Comtois, Steel, Jones and Lunderstrom if they want a shot in hell of doing anything (43 points)
Kings aren't that great but with some trades could spice it up. This is the one team I suspect will surprise in 2021-2022 but their goaltending is a big ? still. (49 points)
Coyotes have been terrible for years and nothing will change that short of Matthews going there as a free agent in a few years (54 points)
Canucks are bad, and they might get better but their GM continually makes them worse so I wouldn't hold my breath. (50 points)
Senators are terrible but getting a lot better - another year or two and they might make some noise (51 points)
Calgary should be better next year.

Reasonably, the Habs could stink significantly enough to fall below some teams like the Canucks/Flames/Coyotes, and we could say that some team will come out and shock everyone (Anaheim + LA + Chicago) next year, but that still puts the Habs around a 7th overall pick. They aren't going to fall far enough, fast enough, to draft a player like Bedard or Wright unless Price stops playing and we play with 15+ million in cap space for the next few years.

You underrate what we'll lose. Maybe two core pieces in Danault amd Tatar. That's significant depth, gone. Then add one more top9f/top5d going at the Exdraft. Then add a year to Weber, Price and Petry, all closing or pass 35 at this time next year.

Unless there's a miracle and we sign some bonafide help like Hamilton, what's coming in as youth won't be nearly enough to compensate for those losses. And that's without considering Drouin might've played his last game here and we won't be getting much in return.

You seem to not apply the same level of criticism when considering the Habs as some of the exagerations in your analysis of some of those teams, especially the four I had bolded.

 

[admiralcadillac]

I got the tattoo long before Dum Dom...loved that movie, creepy as Hell...goes with the Demonic Toys theme on my left arm...

View attachment 438906

...young and stupid, I was...well, younger and just as stupid LOL...

Wut

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Wut

LOL...I have a lot of tattoos...got my first in '90...

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

You sure about that?

I think the media that covers this team, the fans who follow it and the organization are all about having the goalie be "The Man".

I hope you're right but I have my doubts.

I'm pretty sure it hasn't always been this way. The only constant in life is change. Nothing is static. Everything eventually falls apart. Even stars.

 

[LaP]

Goes back further than 9yrs imo...

Habs won a Cup in 1993 based mostly on miraculous performances from Patrick Roy.

They've been trying to recreate that formula ever since.

But they have been trying to recreate it with the wrong ingredients. Damphousse and Bellows were not Lemieux or Greztky but in the category "not good enough for HOF but damn close to it" they are some of the first names to come to my mind. Muller and LeClair were big but also skilled. LeClair at 50% was almost as good as Anderson at 100%. The guy was a monster like a real one. In the playoffs of 92-93 he was playing very well on the 2nd line. Then you had an injured Savard who was past his prime but he was not that old at 31. People always act like if he was not part of the team because he was injured but he was still part of the healthy lineup and you always have injuries it's part of the game. Defense was meh but had some good young guys. The team had more skills than people give it credit imo.