Post-Game Talk: Habs lose game 3. Leafs lead 2-1

[Paddy17]

The biggest issue is not the Leafs skill. It's that they are beating the Habs to the loose pucks and winning the little wars. This wears on you over the course of the game and you always feel you have less time and this is where mental mistakes are made.

Habs are not playing physical like they did in game 1. They should be ashamed for only scoring 4 goals in 3 games while Price has been unreal for us.

Coaching to play safe is our problem. Ducharme has the same system as Julien. The tools are there for us to beat the Leafs but the style we are playing with our tools are flawed.

Agreed, but I would say that DD's system is much worse than Julien's.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

That's because you don't remember how Gorges was viewed at the time. He was our viewed as our #2 defencemen who stabilized everything and could play against the opponents best playing. and was a great leader ( that is what the media, and a lot of fans said ) We traded him and no difference whatsoever on the team performances. 3 year later he's not even playing in the NHL.

Danault is basically a worse Plekanec and we are using him as a 1st c. Let that sink in.

Thing is tho, Gorges was never number 2.

06-07, he played 7 games
07-08, Markov, Hamrlik (arguably Komi too)
08-09, Markov, Hamrlik (arg. Schneider)
09-10 Markov, Hamrlik (add PK in the POs)
10-11 Hamrlik, Subban
11-12 Subban, toss between JG and Hamr
12-13 onwards: Markov, Subban

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Thing is tho, Gorges was never number 2.

06-07, he played 7 games
07-08, Markov, Hamrlik (arguably Komi too)
08-09, Markov, Hamrlik (arg. Schneider)
09-10 Markov, Hamrlik (add PK in the POs)
10-11 Hamrlik, Subban
11-12 Subban, toss between JG and Hamr
12-13 onwards: Markov, Subban

Komisarek, Schneider, Wizniewski were definitely guys who were above on the depth chart when they were around. Gorges was between them and the Spacek, Gill, Kaberle type guys.

 

[durojean]

No, no, I do remember. Nobody viewed him as our number 2 (guys like Subban, Markov, Hamrlik) and he was generally viewed as a solid no.4 option (ideally) who played with heart. Danault's worth to a team is way more than a number 4 D. Losing Danault would hurt a shit ton more than losing Gorges.

Markov was injured and Hamrlik had left the team when Gorges had most of his icetime in MTL. Gorges was way overhyped. Gorges played a whole lot with Subban. I remember having those debate about Gorges on this very forum. Saying that he was not as useful as he seemed.

I'm arguing the same thing about Danault now. The difference is the position. And I am not saying that he is not useful. He is and he is a guy I would keep. But let's not overhype him. He is pretty replaceable. It's not like we are winning because of him. We are actually a losing teams in the last 5 years. Again, I'm not saying we are losing because of him. I'm saying it is really bad that we use him the way we are. I just hope for him that we won't give him 7 millions.

He is not ready for that kind of pressure. If I was him and wanted to stay in MTL. I'd actually ask to get paid less (around 4m). It would manage a lot of the pressure for him. At 7 /6 millions, it would not take 1 season before EVERY fans are on his back. Unless he suddenly puts a 70pts season.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Markov was injured and Hamrlik had left the team when Gorges had most of his icetime in MTL. Gorges was way overhyped. Gorges played a whole lot with Subban. I remember having those debate about Gorges on this very forum. Saying that he was not as useful as he seemed.

I'm arguing the same thing about Danault now. The difference is the position. And I am not saying that he is not useful. He is and he is a guy I would keep. But let's not overhype him. He is pretty replaceable. It's not like we are winning because of him. We are actually a losing teams in the last 5 years. Again, I'm not saying we are losing because of him. I'm saying it is really bad that we use him the way we are. I just hope for him that we won't give him 7 millions.

He is not ready for that kind of pressure. If I was him and wanted to stay in MTL. I'd actually ask to get paid less (around 4m). It would manage a lot of the pressure for him. At 7 /6 millions, it would not take 1 season before EVERY fans are on his back. Unless he suddenly puts a 70pts season.

Injuries have also placed Chiarot as our number 2. I'm not going to use that to fairly evaluate how a player was perceived. I get your point now but I think you used a pretty poor comparison. Danault is not a Gorges-level player at his position/worth. If you want to argue that we can survive his loss, okay - I think we probably could but it'd be very stupid to let him go - and I don't think there's any way in hell Danault gets anywhere near 6 or 7 millions so I'm not going to worry about it.

 

[durojean]

Thing is tho, Gorges was never number 2.

06-07, he played 7 games
07-08, Markov, Hamrlik (arguably Komi too)
08-09, Markov, Hamrlik (arg. Schneider)
09-10 Markov, Hamrlik (add PK in the POs)
10-11 Hamrlik, Subban
11-12 Subban, toss between JG and Hamr
12-13 onwards: Markov, Subban

Those where the year he began to be way overrated. Remember that Markov was injured a lot of those years. And that's where the hype came from.

 

[durojean]

Injuries have also placed Chiarot as our number 2. I'm not going to use that to fairly evaluate how a player was perceived. I get your point now but I think you used a pretty poor comparison. Danault is not a Gorges-level player at his position/worth. If you want to argue that we can survive his loss, okay - I think we probably could but it'd be very stupid to let him go - and I don't think there's any way in hell Danault gets anywhere near 6 or 7 millions so I'm not going to worry about it.

I really don't want to let him go ! I'm scared that he will sign for too much that that the pressure will suffocate him. I would not let go of Tatar either, I'm competely against losing assets for nothing and I feel that after a really good summer. The Habs are in direction for a really bad one and a big set back for 3 or 4 years because we will have a lot of loss for absolutely nothing.

I want to argue that he is overhyped and overused. He does bring things that are pretty valuable for a team.

 

[Schwang]

See, I don't mind Romanov getting that experience. Let's face it, barring some miracle, the habs aren't winning the cup. At the very least, the kids should get the feel of the playoffs.

There is no upside with Gustafsson. He'll likely be gone at the end of the season, and unlike Romanov who might get destroyed defensively against the leafs, Gustafsson WILL get destroyed. He's awful.

I agree but Gustafsson might provide more offense at least. This is a huge problem on the back end. If Petry isn't producing, they're in trouble. Theres no one else because we can't count on Weber.

 

[Mackiaveli]

I really don't want to let him go ! I'm scared that he will sign for too much that that the pressure will suffocate him. I would not let go of Tatar either, I'm competely against losing assets for nothing and I feel that after a really good summer. The Habs are in direction for a really bad one and a big set back for 3 or 4 years because we will have a lot of loss for absolutely nothing.

I want to argue that he is overhyped and overused. He does bring things that are pretty valuable for a team.

You have to understand that losing Danault and Tatar for "nothing" is not really true. We are gaining their cap hit as money to spend. The reality that this playoffs is showing us, is that neither player will be sorely missed. Danault's defensive play has always been celebrated but he has been invisible this series and Matthews has still gotten a ton of good looks regardless of Danault's play. Danault has also been abymsal in the circle this series. Tatar was going to be scratched if not for the Staal injury, and he played a great game 3 but still has been invisible for the last 15 or so games.

The Habs are going to free up somewhere between 12 and 13 million this offseason minus whatever it costs to bring some guys back (Lehkonen/Armia in bottom 6 roles wouldn't offend me) KK, and the 3 million raise that Gallagher gets. If they trade Drouin (don't have to) and pay Chiarot 25% retained + a pick to have Seattle take Byron, then the Habs will open up another 10+ million instantly.

X/Suzuki/Anderson
Toffoli/Kotkaniemi/Gallagher
X/X/Caufield
Lehkonen/Evans/Armia

Edmundson/Petry
Romanov/Weber
Kulak/X

Upcoming UFAs that would fit our needs:

Ovechkin (won't happen but wouldn't that be neat)
Getzlaf (probably won't happen but would be a great mentor for Suzuki and KK -> resign Perry and reunite them on the third line? )
Saad -> Could be a good fit with the image of the team, would rather a more skilled guy but he would be a great 3rd line guy for us
Hamilton -> I would throw the book at him. Let Weber be a defensive zone start, 3rd pairing juggernaut instead of the anchor.
Landeskog -> Highly highly doubt that he does not get an extension, but he would fit in our top 6 tremendously well.
Edler -> More great leadership, great PMD would fit really well instead of Kulak or if we move Romanov to the right side.
Larsson -> Probably re-signs but never know after those playoffs what the Oilers future holds
Barrie -> Probably going to be overpaid and hopefully not by us but he would fit our group well.

You also have some highly talented players who may be available this summer. Eichel, Reinhart, Laine are all players that it isn't unreasonable to see traded. The Habs have a good stock of assets and draft picks ... losing Tatar/Danult doesn't matter

 

[jfhabs]

I can't believe they're not playing Romanov.
Can't believe they didn't play KK and Caufield. Now they've been proven wrong on both decisions.

This management team sucks. Sure Bergevin won a few trades and sign a few good UFAs, however this team was never significantly better then the team in inherited.
I've defended him over the years, and still thinks a lot of Habs fans are not very rational, but no we can say in hindsight it didn't work out.

 

[Runner77]

So, 2 goals or LESS 24 games out of 32 playoff games now ? Something like that.......and some people hate on Pricer, lol
This team under MB has been such a horror movie. This seems to be more on the style of coaches we hire....win or lose this series, there better be a house cleaning real soon.
Laying it ALL on the goalie like this for years now, is beyond brutal.

This is the result of 9 years of poor planning and failed execution. Sure, there have been some positives along the way but only for parts, not the whole. Management's idea of team building for a Cup run is not in line with how modern, successful NHL teams are built. You can't fix incompetence, ultimately you sink with it. Unfortunately, ownership is asleep at the switch.

 

[jfhabs]

You have to understand that losing Danault and Tatar for "nothing" is not really true. We are gaining their cap hit as money to spend. The reality that this playoffs is showing us, is that neither player will be sorely missed. Danault's defensive play has always been celebrated but he has been invisible this series and Matthews has still gotten a ton of good looks regardless of Danault's play. Danault has also been abymsal in the circle this series. Tatar was going to be scratched if not for the Staal injury, and he played a great game 3 but still has been invisible for the last 15 or so games.

The Habs are going to free up somewhere between 12 and 13 million this offseason minus whatever it costs to bring some guys back (Lehkonen/Armia in bottom 6 roles wouldn't offend me) KK, and the 3 million raise that Gallagher gets. If they trade Drouin (don't have to) and pay Chiarot 25% retained + a pick to have Seattle take Byron, then the Habs will open up another 10+ million instantly.

X/Suzuki/Anderson
Toffoli/Kotkaniemi/Gallagher
X/X/Caufield
Lehkonen/Evans/Armia

Edmundson/Petry
Romanov/Weber
Kulak/X

Upcoming UFAs that would fit our needs:

Ovechkin (won't happen but wouldn't that be neat)
Getzlaf (probably won't happen but would be a great mentor for Suzuki and KK -> resign Perry and reunite them on the third line? )
Saad -> Could be a good fit with the image of the team, would rather a more skilled guy but he would be a great 3rd line guy for us
Hamilton -> I would throw the book at him. Let Weber be a defensive zone start, 3rd pairing juggernaut instead of the anchor.
Landeskog -> Highly highly doubt that he does not get an extension, but he would fit in our top 6 tremendously well.
Edler -> More great leadership, great PMD would fit really well instead of Kulak or if we move Romanov to the right side.
Larsson -> Probably re-signs but never know after those playoffs what the Oilers future holds
Barrie -> Probably going to be overpaid and hopefully not by us but he would fit our group well.

You also have some highly talented players who may be available this summer. Eichel, Reinhart, Laine are all players that it isn't unreasonable to see traded. The Habs have a good stock of assets and draft picks ... losing Tatar/Danult doesn't matter

I think I'd give a place to Drouin on that line up, fill the rest with youngster. I'd personnally add a tough guy to that line up via trade or UFA.
I'd be ok with your proposition to dump Chiarot to have Seattle take Byron.
I wouldn't resign Armia, unless he's willing to resign short term (1-2 years). I would bring back Perry instead.
Make room for Poehling, Ylonen, Brook, Fleury etc.
Lower expectations.
Finish at the bottom and pick high in 2023 which looks like a very promising draft.

 

[Theosis]

So, 2 goals or LESS 24 games out of 32 playoff games now ? Something like that.......and some people hate on Pricer, lol
This team under MB has been such a horror movie. This seems to be more on the style of coaches we hire....win or lose this series, there better be a house cleaning real soon.
Laying it ALL on the goalie like this for years now, is beyond brutal.

It blows my mind all the hate Price gets, the guy has been lights out in most playoff games, but when you can't score more than 1-2 goals, how do you expect to win games?

Sure, I agree, Price during the regular season, is not always the world class goalie you would expect, but the guy brings it in the playoffs.

I don't even bother replying to Price bashers anymore, it just makes me laugh every time I see negative posts about him though.

 

[Runner77]

We were supposed to dominate the leafs in the playoffs with all that backend muscle and truculence.

Some even made it their vocation to repeat that mantra ev er ry day

Hey, Leafs are choir boys, didn't you know? Simmonds with the asshole hit on Gallagher:

 

[Runner77]

goddamit can Edmunson get out of the fu***** way and let Price goal? Why is our D always in the way

Cause they're big and slowwwwwwww?

 

[417]

This is the result of 9 years of poor planning and failed execution. Sure, there have been some positives along the way but only for parts, not the whole. Management's idea of team building for a Cup run is not in line with how modern, successful NHL teams are built. You can't fix incompetence, ultimately you sink with it. Unfortunately, ownership is asleep at the switch.

Goes back further than 9yrs imo...

Habs won a Cup in 1993 based mostly on miraculous performances from Patrick Roy.

They've been trying to recreate that formula ever since.

 

[Kriss E]

I usually think Marc Denis is good but he's off his rockers today. Saying the Habs are playing the right way. If it's 0-0 after a period then it's good! Playing to have games ties. Pathetic approach.

 

[Mackiaveli]

Finish at the bottom and pick high

If we have the means to chase a cup with Price, we should. He is too good to not at least try. These playoffs have dispelled any myth that he is not one of the greatest goalies on earth still.

We have a good core group, and some great pieces to upset teams on the back of Price. We should try to see that through, not just tank for lottery picks --- If Oilers moves McDavid or Sabres move Eichel + Senators, Red Wings, Ducks, Kings all suck.... going to be hard to be worse than those teams

 

[Schwang]

Leafs had two men chasing the puck all night, sometimes three. Habs already have understandable 50-50 odds on one on one battles, so it figures Leafs would grab the puck often with this strategy.

we look a step - or two - too slow all over the ice and that is squelching the offense as much as anything else.

Campbell is so beatable but Leafs are aware of it and front-line defending him through hounding the puck.

I don’t know why our team looks so chugga-lugga; Caufield steps on for a shift and we see some semblance of real skating.

Zero flow to their game and the passing is horrid. No sustained attack at least until the third. That was a winnable game, despite how boring it was. Campbell saw pretty much everything. I don't know why the Habs play such a perimeter game. They should park Weber in front on the PP. He's useless on the point.

 

[Kriss E]

Zero flow to their game and the passing is horrid. No sustained attack at least until the third. That was a winnable game, despite how boring it was. Campbell saw pretty much everything. I don't know why the Habs play such a perimeter game. They should park Weber in front on the PP. He's useless on the point.

Campbell came in as the worst out of all starters in rebound control, if it wasn't obvious enough just watching him play that he sucks at it...Yet we still shoot high on this guy. Even when we have another guy rushing the net, we still shoot high. We have the dumbest group of forwards.

 

[sandysan]

Nothing positive about the game.

Some flashes when it didn't matter and Ducharme unable to coach.

yeah I don't see that.

we had, again, great goaltending and spent the entire third, down a single goal, in their end. You have to focus on the process not just the results.

we have a lot to fix, but we held the much much more talented leafs team to 2 goals last night. Outside of game 2, goal scoring is even between the two teams.

I have no idea if we will advance, but if we do its gonna be on the backs of games like 1 and three,

 

[Habs Halifax]

Agreed, but I would say that DD's system is much worse than Julien's.

Looks the same to me

 

[durojean]

You have to understand that losing Danault and Tatar for "nothing" is not really true. We are gaining their cap hit as money to spend. The reality that this playoffs is showing us, is that neither player will be sorely missed. Danault's defensive play has always been celebrated but he has been invisible this series and Matthews has still gotten a ton of good looks regardless of Danault's play. Danault has also been abymsal in the circle this series. Tatar was going to be scratched if not for the Staal injury, and he played a great game 3 but still has been invisible for the last 15 or so games.

The Habs are going to free up somewhere between 12 and 13 million this offseason minus whatever it costs to bring some guys back (Lehkonen/Armia in bottom 6 roles wouldn't offend me) KK, and the 3 million raise that Gallagher gets. If they trade Drouin (don't have to) and pay Chiarot 25% retained + a pick to have Seattle take Byron, then the Habs will open up another 10+ million instantly.

X/Suzuki/Anderson
Toffoli/Kotkaniemi/Gallagher
X/X/Caufield
Lehkonen/Evans/Armia

Edmundson/Petry
Romanov/Weber
Kulak/X

Upcoming UFAs that would fit our needs:

Ovechkin (won't happen but wouldn't that be neat)
Getzlaf (probably won't happen but would be a great mentor for Suzuki and KK -> resign Perry and reunite them on the third line? )
Saad -> Could be a good fit with the image of the team, would rather a more skilled guy but he would be a great 3rd line guy for us
Hamilton -> I would throw the book at him. Let Weber be a defensive zone start, 3rd pairing juggernaut instead of the anchor.
Landeskog -> Highly highly doubt that he does not get an extension, but he would fit in our top 6 tremendously well.
Edler -> More great leadership, great PMD would fit really well instead of Kulak or if we move Romanov to the right side.
Larsson -> Probably re-signs but never know after those playoffs what the Oilers future holds
Barrie -> Probably going to be overpaid and hopefully not by us but he would fit our group well.

You also have some highly talented players who may be available this summer. Eichel, Reinhart, Laine are all players that it isn't unreasonable to see traded. The Habs have a good stock of assets and draft picks ... losing Tatar/Danult doesn't matter

If they are player that we could have traded for picks or prospect and we lose them. We get "nothing" for the asset we lose. Cap hit is completely irrelevant as we would have that either way.

There is nothing that guarantee that we could even get one of those players as UFA and it's got nothing to do of either we have cap hit or not. We need cap space and Hamilton want to sign with us... we move a player. We get something for the player we move. We get Hamilton and "something".

 

[Schwang]

Campbell came in as the worst out of all starters in rebound control, if it wasn't obvious enough just watching him play that he sucks at it...Yet we still shoot high on this guy. Even when we have another guy rushing the net, we still shoot high. We have the dumbest group of forwards.

There's no worry about rebounds because there's never a hab there to get one.

 

[abo9]

Vasilevskiy is the best goalie in the league. And he's been great for Tampa so far. But he's let in 17 goals against in 5 games. But despite that, Tampa is up 3-2 on their series. Because his team scores goals. He has room to work with.

Price, allowed 4 goals in Game 2, but in Game 1 he only had 1 goal against and in Game 3, only 2 goals against. But the poor guy doesn't have room to work with.

I really, really hope the Habs of the 3rd period last night shows up from the start.

It's hard to be optimistic. Price is already playing elite hockey, potentially the best goalie in the world during that series.
But it's not enough, Price has to go full God-mode ala Patrick Roy or Jaroslav Halak and literally can't allow 1 goal or else the game is on the line.