Proposal: Habs - Leafs

[Mackiaveli]

Yada yada yada and classless calling us the laffs.....Have some class, we are the Leafs.

solid response, you got me. LOL

 

[Mackiaveli]

Watch Dermott play and you’d see. He should be playing top pair with Rielly, ask any Leaf fan. Kid is a legit top end defender

Ah yes, the eye test of a random fan. That really beats out analytics.

Watch some Leaf games

I have.

wasn’t Petry on the trade block for Montreal last year.

Nope. Never.

Let me guess, he’s having a good year and is now a top player just like Max Domi

Domi has to sustain it but he has definitely proved something at this point. Petry is having a good year, but he had a great one last year so that's not new.

who the majority of Habs fans complained about for Gally in the offseason?

Gally = Gallagher
Chucky = Galchenyuk

close though. And no, most Habs fans were happy we got Domi, we were just not happy with the price it cost. That has not changed.

You Habs fans change your tune like no tomorrow.

The irony ... lol.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

petry is a #3 at best on a contending team.

on the leafs he would line up alongside Rielly yes, but he would be their 3rd best dman.

2nd best.

 

[Just Linda]

Apparently this is something you are either incapable of or too lazy to do. You demand other people post stats despite them being readily available in the posts people have been linking to throughout this thread. When someone does post a sportsnet article and even posts the picture and summarizes it for you, you immediately dismiss it as being a cutesy graph. Which source of facts do you trust? Bill Comeau's SKATR? McCallum's GAR model? Peter Flynn's Player Value Comparison model? Dom from the Athletic (I can't spell his last name) game score model? I'll link them all below, they all support that Petry is a much better player than Gardiner. View attachment 159937 View attachment 159939 View attachment 159939 View attachment 159937

I said post Jake vs Petry chart, numbers, ect...

You didn't, you posted Petry vs league average.

Specific request denied and you then you obfuscate with some bs that isn't relevant.

This isn't Perty vs the league, it's Petry vs Jake.

Petry vs Jake? You mean this this post here that was posted in response to you did.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Watch some Leaf games and wasn’t Petry on the trade block for Montreal last year. Let me guess, he’s having a good year and is now a top player just like Max Domi who the majority of Habs fans complained about for Gally in the offseason? You Habs fans change your tune like no tomorrow.

Petry wasn't on the trade block last year. He's not even on the trade block now.

 

[Space umpire]

Made it through 4 pages. Started out enjoying decent banter between fans of 2 teams about trade value. Couldn't stand that 'Connermcmuffin' ruined it with an immense lack of knowledge and lack of maturity.
Remembering more of why I left in 2009

 

[connormcmuffin]

Apparently this is something you are either incapable of or too lazy to do. You demand other people post stats despite them being readily available in the posts people have been linking to throughout this thread. When someone does post a sportsnet article and even posts the picture and summarizes it for you, you immediately dismiss it as being a cutesy graph. Which source of facts do you trust? Bill Comeau's SKATR? McCallum's GAR model? Peter Flynn's Player Value Comparison model? Dom from the Athletic (I can't spell his last name) game score model? I'll link them all below, they all support that Petry is a much better player than Gardiner. View attachment 159937 View attachment 159939 View attachment 159939 View attachment 159937

Rolls eyes, spare me the lecture.

The charts are virtually identical and Perty gets a used push for his cap hit. No one is complaining about Jake's contract.

Way to BTFO me.... such a weak push back for all the ego posts.

So let's do something fun for the tie breaker, let's look at tradition not fancy stats. Funny I don't see Petry's 50+ point season.... weird

And Jake is three years younger.

But Petry is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Jake because we like to pretend on the internet.

At best in they are in the same tier but that is me being very charitable based on the case you've presented.

Again, Petry doesn't out produce Jake or have a distinct fancy stat advantage to set him apart as a talent.

Next please, or keep whining.

 

[CapSpace]

That package for Nylander or gtfo.

 

[Just Linda]

Rolls eyes, spare me the lecture.

The charts are virtually identical and Perty gets a used push for his cap hit. No one is complaining about Jake's contract.

Way to BTFO me.... such a weak push back for all the ego posts.

So let's do something fun for the tie breaker, let's look at tradition not fancy stats. Funny I don't see Petry's 50+ point season.... weird

And Jake is three years younger.

But Petry is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Jake because we like to pretend on the internet.

At best in they are in the same tier but that is me being very charitable based on the case you've presented.

Again, Petry doesn't out produce Jake or have a distinct fancy stat advantage to set him apart as a talent.

Next please, or keep whining.

Virtually identical...

Last year's GAR 95th percentile to 86th
Game score from last 3 years - 89- 73 (this year is 79-39)
Gardiner is behind Petry in every category of the PVC and shows a worth of roughly 20percent not including cap hit higher than Gardiner
Petry is better at shot production (shot share, 87-39)
Petry plays slightly better competition while playing with significantly worse teammates (72-43)
Petry is better at stopping his team from being scored on (91/22 vs 85/60 for ex gf and ex GA)

Should I keep continuing? The advanced stats show that Gardiner wouldn't be getting as many points if he wasn't a Leaf and that he's right about where he should be on the 2nd pairing while Petry is producing as a legit first pairing D. It isn't even close.

 

[CHaracter79]

Virtually identical...

Last year's GAR 95th percentile to 86th
Game score from last 3 years - 89- 73 (this year is 79-39)
Gardiner is behind Petry in every category of the PVC and shows a worth of roughly 20percent not including cap hit higher than Gardiner
Petry is better at shot production (shot share, 87-39)
Petry plays slightly better competition while playing with significantly worse teammates (72-43)
Petry is better at stopping his team from being scored on (91/22 vs 85/60 for ex gf and ex GA)

Should I keep continuing? The advanced stats show that Gardiner wouldn't be getting as many points if he wasn't a Leaf and that he's right about where he should be on the 2nd pairing while Petry is producing as a legit first pairing D. It isn't even close.

IDENTICAL I TELL YA

 

[didimentionlarseller]

solid response, you got me. LOL

yea try to be more classy

 

[connormcmuffin]

Virtually identical...

Last year's GAR 95th percentile to 86th
Game score from last 3 years - 89- 73 (this year is 79-39)
Gardiner is behind Petry in every category of the PVC and shows a worth of roughly 20percent not including cap hit higher than Gardiner
Petry is better at shot production (shot share, 87-39)
Petry plays slightly better competition while playing with significantly worse teammates (72-43)
Petry is better at stopping his team from being scored on (91/22 vs 85/60 for ex gf and ex GA)

Should I keep continuing? The advanced stats show that Gardiner wouldn't be getting as many points if he wasn't a Leaf and that he's right about where he should be on the 2nd pairing while Petry is producing as a legit first pairing D. It isn't even close.

Marginally behind in some niche categories and we ignore Gardiner's age and his regular produce destroys Petry.

You'd be hard press to find a worse partner than Zaitsev in the league and Gardiner is either saddled with him or Hainsey so the teammates argument is horrible, defensive partner is what matter and Gardiner has maybe the worst in the league. Nice try.

Gardiner plays sheltered minutes but logs more 5 on 5 time. Petry isn't exactly getting the hardest competition in the league either.

Gardiner is more productive and elite shot suppression.

Neither is a perfect defenseman, again, you're splitting a lot of hairs here to pretend that Petry is > Gardiner, it's totally adorbz tho

 

[ole ole]

Multi-player swap.

Habs: Petry (1 million retained), Lehkonen & 2nd

Toronto: Kapanen, 2019 First

Toronto adds solid top 4 RHD on a good contract + underperforming youngster with potential + 2nd

Habs add young winger who could flourish with JK + late 1st to further bolster prospect pool depth

Habs not interested.

 

[ole ole]

petry is a #3 at best on a contending team.

on the leafs he would line up alongside Rielly yes, but he would be their 3rd best dman.

Really who would be their 2nd best. I think we all need a good laugh.

Now we'll just wait for a Gardiner reply so we can all laugh.,

 

[Just Linda]

Marginally behind in some niche categories and we ignore Gardiner's age and his regular produce destroys Petry.

10 percentile points is pretty significant. Defensively the gaps are larger.

And those aren't niche catagories, they are the most common catagories for assessing players.

You'd be hard press to find a worse partner than Zaitsev in the league and Gardiner is either saddled with him or Hainsey so the teammates argument is horrible, defensive partner is what matter and Gardiner has maybe the worst in the league. Nice try.

And yet Petry managed to find worse partners in Reilly and Benn.

The team mate arguments is important though for many reasons though. A defensive centre makes d look better, forwards that are good possession players make the D look better etc etc. It's a 6 player game not a 2.

Gardiner plays sheltered minutes but logs more 5 on 5 time. Petry isn't exactly getting the hardest competition in the league either.

Petry gets harder competition and tougher minutes. Quality of minutes shows Petry is on the ice for much harsher minutes.

Gardiner is more productive and elite shot suppression.

As posted above, this is false. Petry is significantly better at shot suppression, simplest proof being the 54-50 percent Corsi difference (though there's many other examples)

Neither is a perfect defenseman, again, you're splitting a lot of hairs here to pretend that Petry is > Gardiner, it's totally adorbz tho

Using basic stats and ratings is not splitting hairs, I've presented you quite a few examples. Petry is a better D than Gardiner, the numbers I posted show no other possible conclusion.

 

[Sniper99]

You do know that Dermott's "advanced" stats are excellent too, right?

I dont really care for advanced stats. I dont care who the player is. Is there an award out for advanced stats yet?

 

[HuGo Sham]

Legit top pairing on how many teams around the league? The Canadians not having a ton of D depth doesn’t make him a legit top D. Is Hainsey a top pair D because he plays it for the Leafs? No.

petry is at WORST a 3D, and arguably a 2. he has 17 pts in 25 games after a 12 goal 40+ pt year last year. he's worth more than a winger

 

[connormcmuffin]

10 percentile points is pretty significant. Defensively the gaps are larger.

And those aren't niche catagories, they are the most common catagories for assessing players.



And yet Petry managed to find worse partners in Reilly and Benn.

The team mate arguments is important though for many reasons though. A defensive centre makes d look better, forwards that are good possession players make the D look better etc etc. It's a 6 player game not a 2.



Petry gets harder competition and tougher minutes. Quality of minutes shows Petry is on the ice for much harsher minutes.



As posted above, this is false. Petry is significantly better at shot suppression, simplest proof being the 54-50 percent Corsi difference (though there's many other examples)



Using basic stats and ratings is not splitting hairs, I've presented you quite a few examples. Petry is a better D than Gardiner, the numbers I posted show no other possible conclusion.

Both have strengths and weaknesses, again, this is silly you simply ignore any point for Gardiner and overstate Petry.

Gardiner's shot suppress isn't a hole in his game. If that's where you want to rest you hat, great, you're being unreasonable.

 

[Hansman]

Leafs are not giving up Kapanen, all you'll ever get for Petry is a second rounder and I wouldn't even give up that for a soon to be over the hill player. I know Bergevin would, how's that Weber for Subban working out for you. Even more ridiculous is someone asking for Nylander back LOL. close this up!!!!

I;d bet money on those words.....only a 2nd...lol

 

[Captain Mountain]

I dont really care for advanced stats. I dont care who the player is. Is there an award out for advanced stats yet?

I'm pretty sure its awarded the same time as the "my favourite team's young player who doesn't play a ton of serious minutes yet is, like, really good you guys, I swear!" award.

 

[Liferleafer]

That package for Nylander or gtfo.

I will GTFO now....thanks

 

[ole ole]

Leafs are not giving up Kapanen, all you'll ever get for Petry is a second rounder and I wouldn't even give up that for a soon to be over the hill player. I know Bergevin would, how's that Weber for Subban working out for you. Even more ridiculous is someone asking for Nylander back LOL. close this up!!!!

What you say Petry is worth a 1st and a good prospect. I think your right.

 

[Mersss]

Marginally behind in some niche categories and we ignore Gardiner's age and his regular produce destroys Petry.

You'd be hard press to find a worse partner than Zaitsev in the league and Gardiner is either saddled with him or Hainsey so the teammates argument is horrible, defensive partner is what matter and Gardiner has maybe the worst in the league. Nice try.

Gardiner plays sheltered minutes but logs more 5 on 5 time. Petry isn't exactly getting the hardest competition in the league either.

Gardiner is more productive and elite shot suppression.

Neither is a perfect defenseman, again, you're splitting a lot of hairs here to pretend that Petry is > Gardiner, it's totally adorbz tho

If Gardiner is SOOOO GOOD, then why are the Leafs not paying the man his asking price? Truth is, after this year, not only Petry will STILL be better than Gardiner (he's 28 now, let's not think his game is still going to grow THAT MUCH) and 66% of his caphit (knowing Gardiner is going to get 7/8 quite easily).

So, who's got the best value?

 

[TT1]

Why does this garbage offer have 9 pages? This is terrible just lock it up.. like the majority of Leafs trade proposal threads!

 

[Kotkaniemi15]

Awwww all those years of making fun of the Kapanen + 1st package, now it's attractive.

If Kapanen + conditional first = Kessel then I'll pass on Petry. Not really coveting a Oilers reject blueliner whose ability can be summed up as having an outlet pass and shooting right, keep him Habs.

SMH