Proposal: Habs - Leafs

[connormcmuffin]

He's hit 50+ once and is a long way from matching those numbers.

He hit 52 in his last full season, lol, pretend it's irrelevant. He's so 2017-2018

What is current year?

 

[Mackiaveli]

when you look at his analytics you start to wonder why the media hasn't hype him as a true top pairing D

Honestly, it boils down to the fact that he was a great #2 until Weber got hurt and then when put up to the task its like he started wearing Shea's socks or some shit because he has been a player reincarnated since last season. Many people (myself included) were wary of the possibility that it was just a simple fluke, but 25 games into this year and he has been believe it or not better offensively AND defensively despite our powerplay being significantly worse, and his quality of linemates being equally as bad.

As I recall didn't the Habs only gave up a 2nd and a conditional 5th? Is that conditional 5th even on the Habs roster today? Now 3 years older and into his 30s Habs want the world for him,

Sure, when the Habs traded for him he had played over 60 games twice in 5 years, and had never gotten more than 25 points in a season, and had a career .250 average PPG. He was by all definitions a 2nd pairing guy who wasn't lighting the world up offensively, and wasn't the best defensively either but he wasn't a liability; just a great two-way player.

Since coming to Montreal, he has played 257 games and scored 110 points; totaling 0.43 points per game (nearly double his average). If you just count the last two seasons and this one, he has a 0.47ppg average. All of this is despite Montreal being a bottom of the pack offensive team for two of those years, and having an abysmal powerplay for two of those years. Barring injury this year, he will have played three full 80+ game seasons in Montreal already.

You expect Petry to be worth more than Gardiner?

I love Gardiner, and I would love to see him in a Habs jersey next season.

Petry is worth more, and is a better player than Gardiner, however.

He has less points, but far better advanced statistics. He is a far better 5on5 player, and he is a far better defensive player. He is signed for several more years vs. being a UFA.

In what universe is Gardiner worth even 75% of Petry? Maybe if they were both signed up long term, you'd have an argument to make, but Gardiner's point totals have only jumped up since Matthews/Marner/Nylander entered the fold; whereas Petry tallied 42 points last year on an embarrassing excuse of a hockey team. Even when Toronto was a dumpster fire, they still were scoring a lot thanks to Kadri/Kessel/JVR/Bozak/Lupul --- he's always been in a favorable position.

And the #1 excuse people give for Gardiner being porous defensively (I do not blame him for the Boston series btw) is that his linemates are usually bad; Petry has been playing with Alzner, Schlemko, Benn, Reilly and Mete --- they are all bottom pairing guys.

 

[thunder16]

the leafs gave up prospects and a 2nd rounder to rent plekanec last year.

That was for a rental, they were not going to keep turtle neck, Petry is not a rental.

 

[connormcmuffin]

Honestly, it boils down to the fact that he was a great #2 until Weber got hurt and then when put up to the task its like he started wearing Shea's socks or some **** because he has been a player reincarnated since last season. Many people (myself included) were wary of the possibility that it was just a simple fluke, but 25 games into this year and he has been believe it or not better offensively AND defensively despite our powerplay being significantly worse, and his quality of linemates being equally as bad.



Sure, when the Habs traded for him he had played over 60 games twice in 5 years, and had never gotten more than 25 points in a season, and had a career .250 average PPG. He was by all definitions a 2nd pairing guy who wasn't lighting the world up offensively, and wasn't the best defensively either but he wasn't a liability; just a great two-way player.

Since coming to Montreal, he has played 257 games and scored 110 points; totaling 0.43 points per game (nearly double his average). If you just count the last two seasons and this one, he has a 0.47ppg average. All of this is despite Montreal being a bottom of the pack offensive team for two of those years, and having an abysmal powerplay for two of those years. Barring injury this year, he will have played three full 80+ game seasons in Montreal already.



I love Gardiner, and I would love to see him in a Habs jersey next season.

Petry is worth more, and is a better player than Gardiner, however.

He has less points, but far better advanced statistics. He is a far better 5on5 player, and he is a far better defensive player. He is signed for several more years vs. being a UFA.

In what universe is Gardiner worth even 75% of Petry? Maybe if they were both signed up long term, you'd have an argument to make, but Gardiner's point totals have only jumped up since Matthews/Marner/Nylander entered the fold; whereas Petry tallied 42 points last year on an embarrassing excuse of a hockey team. Even when Toronto was a dumpster fire, they still were scoring a lot thanks to Kadri/Kessel/JVR/Bozak/Lupul --- he's always been in a favorable position.

And the #1 excuse people give for Gardiner being porous defensively (I do not blame him for the Boston series btw) is that his linemates are usually bad; Petry has been playing with Alzner, Schlemko, Benn, Reilly and Mete --- they are all bottom pairing guys.

He has marginally better advanced stats, Gardiner is a fancy stats darling.

Petry was put in every opportunity to produce on a thin roster.

Gardiner is 3 years younger than Petry with more of his prime left and always has been superior to Petry producing offense.

I'll take Alzner, Schlemko, Benn or Reilly over Zaitsev, Zaitsev is a black hole of produce that even make Rielly look horrible when Morgan was saddled with Zaitsev his rookie year.

Again, totally discount Jake's production for some marginal difference in fancy stats.

Lot easier to look good in front of Carey Price than Freddy.

Also this is the first time in HF I see people using the argument of forwards inflating a blueliners value, this is a massive reach and completely bias.

 

[Andrewcoursol]

That was for a rental, they were not going to keep turtle neck, Petry is not a rental.

my prior post was regarding a statement about the leafs not trading picks, the Plekanec deal shows that the leafs did trade picks regardless of players contract status

 

[Andrewcoursol]

just wondering what the compensation would be if a team offer sheet both Matthews and Marner, are the draft picks in compensation less than actual trade value? if it is than maybe teams with the cap space should consider it, and maybe even trade away other players to make room available .

 

[The Man with a Plan]

oh honeyyy... Petry could return that package alone. Stop underrating him. That package could almost return you Nylander

4.5 mil Petry for 3 more years, Lehkonen and a good chance of an early 2nd rounder

early second is almost the same as a late first, so you are saying that kapanen is worth THAT much?

That package would NOT return Willie. Give ya head a shake.

 

[sansabri]

He hit 52 in his last full season, lol, pretend it's irrelevant. He's so 2017-2018

What is current year?

He's on pace for just a little over 30 pts.

 

[connormcmuffin]

He's on pace for just a little over 30 pts.

What a sample size....

 

[Phion Keneuf]

Wouldn’t trade Kap for that whole package... let alone add a 1st. Brutal

 

[sansabri]

What a sample size....

He has to put up 42 pts in his last 56 games to match his last season.

 

[connormcmuffin]

He has to put up 42 pts in his last 56 games to match his last season.

Like he did last season? He put up 15 points in two weeks after they took Zaitsev off his pair and put Hainsey on.

Gardiner usually gets his points in bunches. He once put up 8 goals post February for a 10 goal season.

There is the angle of Leafs limiting Gardiner with Zaitsev in an effort to increase Zaitsev's value in trade and limit Gardiner's contract demand, popular topic among his usage in Leafs advanced stats circles, Ian Tulloch did a podcast on this topic however I seriously doubt that reality could even be discussed in this thread.

We're not about stats or ideas here, we're about our feels.

 

[sansabri]

Like he did last season? He put up 15 points in two weeks after they took Zaitsev off his pair and put Hainsey on.

Gardiner usually gets his points in bunches. He once put up 8 goals post February for a 10 goal season.

There is the angle of Leafs limiting Gardiner with Zaitsev in an effort to increase Zaitsev's value in trade and limit Gardiner's contract demand, popular topic among his usage in Leafs advanced stats circles, Ian Tulloch did a podcast on this topic however I seriously doubt that reality could even be discussed in this thread.

We're not about stats or ideas here, we're about our feels.

Then we should expect Gardiner to explode offensively any time now.

 

[connormcmuffin]

Then we should expect Gardiner to explode offensively any time now.

I'm just curious does him coming off a career year count? Is that marketable? Are the Caps defending champions too? Is Matt Duchene a legit top ten league point producer. How far does this fishbowl analysis extend?

I'm guessing it only applies to what is convenient for yourself at the time and in no other context.

 

[sansabri]

I'm just curious does him coming off a career year count? Is that marketable? Are the Caps defending champions too? Is Matt Duchene a legit top ten league point producer. How far does this fishbowl analysis extend?

I'm guessing it only applies to what is convenient for yourself at the time and in no other context.

You called Petry an Oiler reject and are now squirming over Gardiner's unimpressive year.

 

[Hansman]

As I recall didn't the Habs only gave up a 2nd and a conditional 5th? Is that conditional 5th even on the Habs roster today? Now 3 years older and into his 30s Habs want the world for him, is Sam Pollock coming out of retirement cause your not getting anywhere near what your asking!

Most fans are Homers,they overvalue their own players and under value opposition players like you just did.I once bought a house for 85,000 dollars ,sold it later for 223,000 dollars.Assets can rise in value,like Petry has. If Petry is traded he will fetch a 1st and a good prospect.I would also ask for the 2nd pick the following year conditional if said team wins the SC. If the Habs traded the 5th how can said player be on their roster?You are also dodging my question about the return for Petry.Bookmark this post ,we will revisit if and when Petry is traded.

 

[Baksfamous112]

As I recall didn't the Habs only gave up a 2nd and a conditional 5th? Is that conditional 5th even on the Habs roster today? Now 3 years older and into his 30s Habs want the world for him, is Sam Pollock coming out of retirement cause your not getting anywhere near what your asking!

“Bitcoin was worth 100$ 3 years ago, therefor anyone asking for more than a 100$ per Bitcoin in 2018 is out of their god damn mind” Said the guy who never understood how market works

 

[Scriptor]

Drouin (23): 9g/20pts
Kapanen (22): 10g/18pts
Gallagher (26): 11g/16pts

would you trade Drouin and a 1st for Gardiner,Johnsson, 2nd?

Is Montreal in the same upcoming Cap bind as TOR. Personally, I'm not as big on Johnson as I am on Lehkonen and the MON 2nd would be much higher pick than the TOR 2nd.

These offhanded comparisons always fail to take everything into account. However, Gardiner is a slightly younger left-handed equivalent to Petry like I say we should trade Petry + for with the goals of spreading out our strength at D for the next 6-7 years as we develop more LHDs; Romanov, Mete, ???