Confirmed with Link: Habs Don't Match Kotkaniemi Offer Sheet (Get 2022 1st & 3rd Round Picks)

[salbutera]

KK+Caufield may have landed the Habs Eichel. Although I think this was a dumb move by the Canes (they could have used the Cap space and picks for a high quality Rental to win a cup), I acknowledge it was very stupid asset management by the Habs.

Not really … both the owner & his wife the team President stated they wanted Eichel out of the Conference

 

[LeHab]

So... Why did it get to the point that he could be offer-sheeted? Was it that hard to give him a good 3 million offer at the end of the season? Bergevin doesn't have a crystal ball but if the Canes were asking about him, you have to know the offer-sheet is a possibility, right? Give the kid what he asks for in a bridge deal. What's the worst that can happen... We overpay him for a couple years by a million or two? Is that sum such a pain that you can't navigate around it?

I agreed about letting him go because the contract the canes offered was just nuts and his QO would have been even crazier. But it shouldnt have gotten to that point.

Now we have a shit lottery team, an objectively worse and older center in Dvorak, and we risk losing our highest pick if we somehow finish 11th from last. Worse case Ontario. So we need to sell and tank hard so the Yotes get the Canes pick and not ours.

Bergevin's nickel-and-diming with KK had way bigger repercussions than originally thought.

We don't know what KK demands were at the time. Plenty of players remain unsigned while offer-sheet window is open.

With Danault at the time unlikely to be resigned KK knew he would be expected to step in as a 2nd C. Good leverage right there and more incentive to wait and see as Habs had no alternatives.

 

[Toene]

We don't know what KK demands were at the time. Plenty of players remain unsigned while offer-sheet window is open.

With Danault at the time unlikely to be resigned KK knew he would be expected to step in as a 2nd C. Good leverage right there and more incentive to wait and see as Habs had no alternatives.

The 6M offer was deliberately superior to his real value so the move would tie the Habs' hands. What I understand from it is that a more reasonable deal could've been discussed with KK's agent before the start of free agency. Even if it's 4 millions a year, it's better than to lose the value in assets we did eventually.

 

[frenchcanayan]

He's 21 for the entirety of this season...just because he hasn't figured it out yet doesn't mean he won't. Some kids are late bloomers, he still has plenty of time to put it together.

but If he was still with us… you would probably be screaming bust or get mad everytime he plays like a chicken head… but hey grass always greener right

 

[ottawa]

but If he was still with us… you would probably be screaming bust or get mad everytime he plays like a chicken head… but hey grass always greener right

Most likely not...only a vocal minority were actually screaming bust considering he was just 20 and was coming off an amazing playoffs last year.

Almost everyone was pro-KK and I imagine still would be this year even after this teams horrendous start.

 

[Toene]

Holy h*ll, I haven’t followed much of KK this year but man looked over at his stats, that’s awful.

Some posters were willing to die on a sword defending this dude.

oh well, I did the same for galch. We learn

I'm not even defending him. Dude is struggling mightily. The point I'm trying to make is only about absolute value.

We already know that at least one NHL team (Carolina) was ready to trade at least a late 1st for him. So he did have value. On the other hand, another GM was willing to trade a 1st+ a 3rd for Dvorak. Would both of them have the same value today? Who lost or gained value since, KK or Dvo, both?

 

[frenchcanayan]

And can we stop pretending other teams viewed him as a top bluechip prospect and that he was such a high value trading piece.

See guys like Nolan Patrick and Cody Glass… nobody is having #1 center dreams about them already… because they opened their eyes instead of wishing magical growth

 

[admiralcadillac]

I'm not even defending him. Dude is struggling mightily. The point I'm trying to make is only about absolute value.

We already know that at least one NHL team (Carolina) was ready to trade at least a late 1st for him. So he did have value. On the other hand, another GM was willing to trade a 1st+ a 3rd for Dvorak. Would both of them have the same value today? Who lost or gained value since, KK or Dvo, both?

Dvorak looks better than KK right now, which is saying very little

 

[japhi]

One other thing, the quotes from Waddell clearly show that the Canes barely scouted KK. He was saying that KK was playing a new position, wing, which isn’t true, he player a fair amount at the wing in MTL. He was also surprised that KK was having issues with pace.

If this wasn’t a revenge OS it seems it wasn’t very well thought out. They didn’t understand who the player was/is and gave up a first and third plus 6mm and a player friendly contract. Good on the Canes for having such a great team but this was pretty sloppy asset management.

 

[frenchcanayan]

Most likely not...only a vocal minority were actually screaming bust considering he was just 20 and was coming off an amazing playoffs last year.

Almost everyone was pro-KK and I imagine still would be this year even after this teams horrendous start.

he played awful in the playoff’s… but was able to produce … every single play he did was awful then he would score a big goal… I appreciated it, but was still swearing everytime he touched the puck…

 

[Toene]

One other thing, the quotes from Waddell clearly show that the Canes barely scouted KK. He was saying that KK was playing a new position, wing, which isn’t true, he player a fair amount at the wing in MTL. He was also surprised that KK was having issues with pace.

If this wasn’t a revenge OS it seems it wasn’t very well thought out. They didn’t understand who the player was/is and gave up a first and third plus 6mm and a player friendly contract. Good on the Canes for having such a great team but this was pretty sloppy asset management.

I personally think it was poor asset management by both teams. The only team that gained value from all this are the Coyotes. Selling Dvorak for a 1st PLUS a 2nd is highway robbery

 

[Adam Michaels]

KK has played 13 games with the Canes. Here is how he performed after 13 games each year...

Year 1 with Montreal: 6 pts (2G, 4A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 14:13
Year 2 with Montreal: 3 pts (2G, 1A) in 13 GP.... average TOI: 12:43
Year 3 with Montreal: 7 pts (1G, 6A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 13:37
Year 4 with Carolina: 3 pts (2G, 1A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 12:33

 

[frenchcanayan]

KK has played 13 games with the Canes. Here is how he performed after 13 games each year...

Year 1 with Montreal: 6 pts (2G, 4A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 14:13
Year 2 with Montreal: 3 pts (2G, 1A) in 13 GP.... average TOI: 12:43
Year 3 with Montreal: 6 pts (1G, 6A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 13:37
Year 4 with Carolina: 3 pts (2G, 1A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 12:33

and he finished so strong after that

 

[Toene]

KK has played 13 games with the Canes. Here is how he performed after 13 games each year...

Year 1 with Montreal: 6 pts (2G, 4A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 14:13
Year 2 with Montreal: 3 pts (2G, 1A) in 13 GP.... average TOI: 12:43
Year 3 with Montreal: 6 pts (1G, 6A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 13:37
Year 4 with Carolina: 3 pts (2G, 1A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 12:33

So we can bet good money that next year, he's gonna score 6 in his first 14 games? Such a consistent player.

 

[CHwest]

4th year 3OA player still doesn't warrant more than 10 minutes of ice time says alot

T o be fair there is no way he should be a fourth year player. Maybe second year.

 

[Adam Michaels]

So we can bet good money that next year, he's gonna score 6 in his first 14 games? Such a consistent player.

That't the pattern.

They always say one of the best things coaches look for in players is to know what they will get out of them. So they know one year, he'll have 3 pts in 13 games and the next year he'll have 6 pts in 13 games.

 

[Draft]

That't the pattern.

They always say one of the best things coaches look for in players is to know what they will get out of them. So they know one year, he'll have 3 pts in 13 games and the next year he'll have 6 pts in 13 games.

It's that type of consistency that will make him a shoo-in as an NHL 4th liner. That's exactly what teams are looking for.

 

[ottawa]

he played awful in the playoff’s… but was able to produce … every single play he did was awful then he would score a big goal… I appreciated it, but was still swearing everytime he touched the puck…

If he played awful then so did over half the team he was better than

 

[swimmer77]

I'm a four goal guy. Almost there!

 

[Corson27]

they have Aho and KK as opposed to our....nothing

In this case, nothing is better than a negative, which is what Habs would have gotten in KK for the sum of money Canes paid for his contract. This still doesn't take away from the overwhelming evidence that BargainBin's an idiot (and by extension, so is Goeff Molson), but in the KK case, I prefer "nothing" over a $6M+ cap hit (but you go, Canes!)

 

[frenchcanayan]

If he played awful then so did over half the team he was better than

Lol but no

 

[japhi]

I personally think it was poor asset management by both teams. The only team that gained value from all this are the Coyotes. Selling Dvorak for a 1st PLUS a 2nd is highway robbery

I think Dvorak will have more of an impact then the 30th OA pick. I mean he is already better then our past two 3OA selections so pretty sure we would have done worse with the picks

 

[ottawa]

Lol but no

Ok then

In this case, nothing is better than a negative, which is what Habs would have gotten in KK for the sum of money Canes paid for his contract. This still doesn't take away from the overwhelming evidence that BargainBin's an idiot (and by extension, so is Goeff Molson), but in the KK case, I prefer "nothing" over a $6M+ cap hit (but you go, Canes!)

A 6m cap hit wasn't the only option

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

KK has played 13 games with the Canes. Here is how he performed after 13 games each year...

Year 1 with Montreal: 6 pts (2G, 4A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 14:13
Year 2 with Montreal: 3 pts (2G, 1A) in 13 GP.... average TOI: 12:43
Year 3 with Montreal: 7 pts (1G, 6A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 13:37
Year 4 with Carolina: 3 pts (2G, 1A) in 13 GP... average TOI: 12:33

I think he's playing LW. Is that correct? If he's a LWer I care not a bit about him TBH (unless he becomes Ovechkin or something).

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Imagine the hate he would've been getting here if we had matched that offer sheet.
6.1 M for 3 pts in 13 games and looking like a bust

I think his QO has to be 5 or 6 M. He better not give a "discount" to Carolina.