Habs Defense

[Frank Drebin]

He has much more offense in him, he's just playing it safe right now
Not uncommon for young defenseman stepping in the nhl

It took Hedman 6 seasons to break 30 points.

Myers on the other hand got 48 and 37 in his first 2 seasons and hasn't broke 30 in the following 5.

 

[swimmer77]

I think they are doing okay presently but for the future it looks grim unless there are more Metes out there.

I'm not a big Weber fan but he holds his own and more on defense. The Habs lose him and I think they are toast.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You're not watching. So many turnovers in the D zone by the Habs D that end up in the back of the net. One example from last night was Mete behind the net with the puck, Weber being big brother and going behind the net to help (never ever have two D behind the net). Puck gets loose, finds the man in the slot, easy goal.

The defense is a mess, just watch the games.

The defense is not a mess. The goaltending is. But I do agree we turn the puck over more than I’d like to see in our own end!

Those soft goals we were allowing were killing our team confidence and momentum!

The game against the Hawks is a good example of how good our team defense is when our goaltender don’t allow soft goals

 

[Draft]

I think the Habs should toss an offer to VAN for Gudbranson and see if he can shore up the bottom pair. If the Habs/Bergevin are consistently going the defensive defenceman route, they might as well get a good one that brings a physical element to the game (instead of Davidson or Benn).

 

[voyageur]

I think MB should of signed Markov and losing him has created a hole, but I think he would of been 4th or 5th D on this team. He is better than what we rotate on our bottom pairing, would of helped on the PP but even now in the KHL he is starting to slow down. He had a hot start but now 15 points in 27 games. To put it in perspective Dietz has 18 points in 19 games.

I don't think he would make a huge difference defensively, but I do think he would have some ES points and some PP points.

I think the thing with Andrei Markov is that the speed was gone. He was the worst skater on the team. I think when a player like Markov, Streit, or Gonchar before him loses their speed, it is a difficult transition. Talent can be exposed by speed and physicality, that's the nature of the game. I like that Drouin gets to control the puck more, without Markov running the PP. As the season goes, I think the PP will improve.

I think Bergevin had to be impacted by the success Ottawa had over the Rangers that outplayed the Habs. The success of a rather ho-hum group, that relied on its star, and was otherwise very physically engaged.

Weber is a horse or a mountain. Petry is an enigma at #2. He has been a force in the past, I think chemistry is a reason for his slow start. I like Alzner as a top 4. Not flashy but strong. Not easy to play against. Mete is a drastic change in speed from Markov. I don't think he has to replace Markov's offense, he will be able to sustain more offense as a result of his skating. Defensive positioning will be his apprenticeship this year, learning from a pro.

I think Schlemko is an important piece. With Mete still learning a lot, the Canadiens need a strong LH penalty killer to fill the role, one that Markov also held.

Jordie Benn has been inconsistent, falling off from his early success upon being traded.

Davidson and Morrow have the mobility, but it is the details that have prevented them from becoming pros at the point of their careers when they risk becoming tweeneers/ career AHL players.

I think Lernout could help the defensive side, Jerabek the offensive.

I don't think speed is really an issue for the defense. Building chemistry is. I think the team needs a consistent top 4. Those 4 are Mete-Weber, Alzner-Petry. Schlemko will be #5, and provides some insurance for Mete in the top 4. And I think there are 4 realistic options for #6 (Benn, Morrow, Lernout, Jerabek; Davidson being LHD depth only). I'd give this group 40 games to gel before passing more judgement.

 

[dkd]

I think the Habs should toss an offer to VAN for Gudbranson and see if he can shore up the bottom pair. If the Habs/Bergevin are consistently going the defensive defenceman route, they might as well get a good one that brings a physical element to the game (instead of Davidson or Benn).

Would love to have him on our 3rd pairing, but what would it take to bring him to MTL?

 

[Hostile Offer]

Can someone tell me where I can find the HDSC stats? Would be interesting to see even though I don't think they are very reliable as it's relatively lot up to the stat maker's interpretation to identify the high danger scoring chances.

I agree with the OP though, the Habs' D struggles are exaggerated. The problems are goaltending and the fact that we've been allowing a lot of goals in very short spans of time. Without those "black moments", which the D can though be blamed on, and Price's struggles we wouldn't have allowed nearly as many goals. Most of the time our D is doing a good job.

 

[Giacomo]

Put a capable goalie in and its not a bad group of players

 

[Yoor]

anyone know when Schlemko is due to come back? i am just curious to see him play? i am not expecting too much but he is supposed to be able to move the puck i guess, and what about Jarebek? is this guy going to get a chance? Just curious i know they aren't going to come in a be game breakers but if we need puck movers why not?

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

anyone know when Schlemko is due to come back? i am just curious to see him play? i am not expecting too much but he is supposed to be able to move the puck i guess, and what about Jarebek? is this guy going to get a chance? Just curious i know they aren't going to come in a be game breakers but if we need puck movers why not?

I believe Schlemko is expected back early-mid December.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I think the Habs should toss an offer to VAN for Gudbranson and see if he can shore up the bottom pair. If the Habs/Bergevin are consistently going the defensive defenceman route, they might as well get a good one that brings a physical element to the game (instead of Davidson or Benn).

Gudbranson has been so bad though...

 

[Draft]

Would love to have him on our 3rd pairing, but what would it take to bring him to MTL?

I was thinking Davidson + 3rd/equivalent prospect.

Gudbranson has been so bad though...

Not great based on fan expectations - especially considering what was given up to acquire him. I'd be very happy to have him on the bottom pairing though.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I was thinking Davidson + 3rd/equivalent prospect.



Not great based on fan expectations - especially considering what was given up to acquire him. I'd be very happy to have him on the bottom pairing though.

Over who though? Because he isn't really an upgrade on Benn or Davidson.

 

[Draft]

Over who though? Because he isn't really an upgrade on Benn or Davidson.

From what I've seen of Gudbranson, he'd be a pretty big upgrade over both - especially where consistency, clearing the crease, and physical play is concerned.

 

[Captain Mountain]

From what I've seen of Gudbranson, he'd be a pretty big upgrade over both - especially where consistency, clearing the crease, and physical play is concerned.

He's definitely less consistent, he's more physical, but he just as much a hindrance than a help in clearing the crease. There's also the fact that he's worse at moving and controlling the puck, which is the big issue with Montreal's D in the first place.

 

[scrubadam]

Can someone tell me where I can find the HDSC stats? Would be interesting to see even though I don't think they are very reliable as it's relatively lot up to the stat maker's interpretation to identify the high danger scoring chances.

I agree with the OP though, the Habs' D struggles are exaggerated. The problems are goaltending and the fact that we've been allowing a lot of goals in very short spans of time. Without those "black moments", which the D can though be blamed on, and Price's struggles we wouldn't have allowed nearly as many goals. Most of the time our D is doing a good job.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php

Lots of interesting stats.

HDCA one of the best in the league, HDGA one of the worst. Habs limit shots, especially dangerous ones, but the goalies let in to nearly the most. EVERY team will have HDCA and if habs are one of the best most teams give up more of em. So at some point your goalie has to stop the shots.

Sure HDCA isn't the holy grail. Is a DD HDCA the same as a Crosby one? of course not. But I think combining that with SA, SF, and Corsi we can at least take a view that the habs are getting more shots and limiting the shots of their opponents which is what a D should do.

The D is not a bunch of rushers, on an individual basis the names are not sexy. Benn will never be Ekholm, Petry will never be Doughty or Keith, Mete is not Letang. But they are good enough to play within the system and produce positive results.

The myth this summer that they would be a disaster was just that, but if that's the view you have you will see the team through that lens and let the bias sink in so this teams D will be horrible even though the stats are showing otherwise.

 

[Draft]

He's definitely less consistent, he's more physical, but he just as much a hindrance than a help in clearing the crease. There's also the fact that he's worse at moving and controlling the puck, which is the big issue with Montreal's D in the first place.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. What we've seen from both Benn and Davidson is all over the place. I don't think either of us can claim to be an expert on another team's player, but I think we've both seen something different with Gudbranson. There are parts of the game where he makes a major difference and parts that keep him from being a consistent top-4 defenceman. I think the biggest difference between Benn/Davidson and Gudbranson, is that while all of them are inconsistent to some degree, neither Benn or Davidson bring the skills to change the pace or mood of the game. Rarely, if ever, will you notice either of them making a positive impact on the game - they're there not to get scored on (which they don't do a great job of). Gudbranson brings a physical element and a big shot that can change the course of a game while still being a capable defenceman. That's something that is being undervalued league-wide and I think the Habs should capitalize on it. Bringing in a guy like Gudbranson for the playoffs could make a major difference.

 

[Kraken Jokes]

If Schlemko is expected back in December, that's around the time Montreal could make a decision on whether Mete goes to the WJCs. I don't mind them limiting his ice-time while he gains some confidence and learns how to overcome bigger forwards in the NHL, but if there isn't progress in the next few weeks, a WJC tourney might do him some good. We may get a chance to look at Jerabek at the same time. Of course, injuries will happen.

Ideally, the Habs would be looking to add a somewhat game-breaking offensive LD to play with Weber but, looking around the league, I don't see one coming available. We could take a different approach...

Arizona has an extremely slim chance of making the playoffs. They could be open to moving any of Demers, Hjalmarsson or Goligoski for something that will help them next season. I like Demers the best.

Schlemko - Weber
Alzner - Demers
Benn - Petry
(Davidson/Jerabek)

If there was a long-term injury to any of the top-6, I'd have Mete in there.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. What we've seen from both Benn and Davidson is all over the place. I don't think either of us can claim to be an expert on another team's player, but I think we've both seen something different with Gudbranson. There are parts of the game where he makes a major difference and parts that keep him from being a consistent top-4 defenceman. I think the biggest difference between Benn/Davidson and Gudbranson, is that while all of them are inconsistent to some degree, neither Benn or Davidson bring the skills to change the pace or mood of the game. Rarely, if ever, will you notice either of them making a positive impact on the game - they're there not to get scored on (which they don't do a great job of). Gudbranson brings a physical element and a big shot that can change the course of a game while still being a capable defenceman. That's something that is being undervalued league-wide and I think the Habs should capitalize on it. Bringing in a guy like Gudbranson for the playoffs could make a major difference.

Considering "pace" is something that we can actually measure, We know that Gudbranson's effect on it is worse than either Benn or Davidson. Gudbranson NEVER gets his shot off, so its a non-factor. He's basically a poor man's Emelin, but even more brain farts. He is NOT good defensively, and I haveno idea why you would think he is. He bleeds shots and chances against. I guess the hitting is nice, but he's the type of D that league has finally realized isn't very good. Its kinda like the logic that saw Montreal bring in guys like Martinsen, Ott and King for the playoffs.

 

[Draft]

Considering "pace" is something that we can actually measure, We know that Gudbranson's effect on it is worse than either Benn or Davidson. Gudbranson NEVER gets his shot off, so its a non-factor. He's basically a poor man's Emelin, but even more brain farts. He is NOT good defensively, and I haveno idea why you would think he is. He bleeds shots and chances against. I guess the hitting is nice, but he's the type of D that league has finally realized isn't very good. Its kinda like the logic that saw Montreal bring in guys like Martinsen, Ott and King for the playoffs.

I disagree, I think he's very comparable to Emelin. By pace, I'm talking about the speed of the game and the willingness for opposing forwards to skate the puck over the blue line or play along the boards. When I've watched him, he plays just fine defensively. His style of play has him blocking shots, cutting down lanes, and making a difference in front of the net. This, just like with Weber, does not show up kindly when looking at stats. He sticks up for teammates and can change a game with a big hit or by keeping pucks out from the front of the net. That is much more valuable to me than two guys that struggle to play against grinding teams and that aren't positive players on offence or even really in transition.

I totally understand why the style of play isn't popular for a lot of people right now, but it doesn't mean he's not an effective defenceman. If I had a choice between Benn/Davidson and Gudbranson, I know who I'd want to play with and who I wouldn't want to play against. If we were talking about OEL vs Gudbranson for styles of players on the top pairing or what makes a Norris-worthy defenceman, the answer is obvious. However, having a role player on the bottom pairing that can change a game in a positive way is huge.

 

[Hostile Offer]

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php

Lots of interesting stats.

HDCA one of the best in the league, HDGA one of the worst. Habs limit shots, especially dangerous ones, but the goalies let in to nearly the most. EVERY team will have HDCA and if habs are one of the best most teams give up more of em. So at some point your goalie has to stop the shots.

Sure HDCA isn't the holy grail. Is a DD HDCA the same as a Crosby one? of course not. But I think combining that with SA, SF, and Corsi we can at least take a view that the habs are getting more shots and limiting the shots of their opponents which is what a D should do.

The D is not a bunch of rushers, on an individual basis the names are not sexy. Benn will never be Ekholm, Petry will never be Doughty or Keith, Mete is not Letang. But they are good enough to play within the system and produce positive results.

The myth this summer that they would be a disaster was just that, but if that's the view you have you will see the team through that lens and let the bias sink in so this teams D will be horrible even though the stats are showing otherwise.

Thanks a lot for the link! It's interesting to see how many of the current bottom-feeder teams like the Habs, Oilers and Coyotes actually generate some of the most high danger chances. Scoring is obviously an issue for all these teams. The Pens are also surprisingly poor at finishing in their chances.

It's frustrating to see that dismal HDSV% but also promising since by interpreting these stats it just takes our goaltending (which with Price should be arguably our biggest strength) to figure it out for this team to get much better results. These stats aren't facts for sure but they provide some indication.

 

[Captain Mountain]

I disagree, I think he's very comparable to Emelin. By pace, I'm talking about the speed of the game and the willingness for opposing forwards to skate the puck over the blue line or play along the boards. When I've watched him, he plays just fine defensively. His style of play has him blocking shots, cutting down lanes, and making a difference in front of the net. This, just like with Weber, does not show up kindly when looking at stats. He sticks up for teammates and can change a game with a big hit or by keeping pucks out from the front of the net. That is much more valuable to me than two guys that struggle to play against grinding teams and that aren't positive players on offence or even really in transition.

I totally understand why the style of play isn't popular for a lot of people right now, but it doesn't mean he's not an effective defenceman. If I had a choice between Benn/Davidson and Gudbranson, I know who I'd want to play with and who I wouldn't want to play against. If we were talking about OEL vs Gudbranson for styles of players on the top pairing or what makes a Norris-worthy defenceman, the answer is obvious. However, having a role player on the bottom pairing that can change a game in a positive way is huge.

I don't know what to say man. I don't see Gudbranson play at all like how you say he does. The stats don't back any of that up. Even the zone entries against an preventing zone entry attempts, which are both tracked and quantified (not that it matters, since Julien plays zone D and likes his D more passive). Canuck fans hate the guy.

 

[malton]

Shots that deflect off of D do not register as hdsc.

Bad giveaways may not lead to hdsc, but they'll lead to scoring chances and when your goalie is unable to set the chances of the puck ending up in the back of the net are higher.

I'm a fan of advanced stats, but there are occasions where stats can't account for bad play.

 

[Habs Halifax]

anyone know when Schlemko is due to come back? i am just curious to see him play? i am not expecting too much but he is supposed to be able to move the puck i guess, and what about Jarebek? is this guy going to get a chance? Just curious i know they aren't going to come in a be game breakers but if we need puck movers why not?

I believe Schlemko is expected back early-mid December.

I think it's mid November. He was listed out for 3 or 4 weeks back on Oct 18th. He's probably going to play a few AHL games to test the injury so I guess we can expect him back from mid Nov to end?

 

[Picklepete]

Thanks for Sergachev is all I have to say !
We have plenty of forward depth so were fine there,
Sergachev is what Bolts needed..