HF Habs: Habs All Access Draft Feature

[Kennerback]

For sure, but you are selling it as if Slaf's core business will be to beat guys with speed (manlet Savoie will do that - get hurt sometimes). It probably won't be, even if he's elite. He will be a garbage collector that relies on IQ/size to go in all the dirty areas (he'll need a high IQ / fast player with him) - and he's a decent playmaker to go with that (why he won't be Armia either, much bigger IQ). I think it's fairly optimistic to sell him like a Jagr in style, Jagr was dominating his levels at the same age and playing with speed for that time period. Slaf is average in speed, that's why he can't think of developing the same game as Jaromir - unless you are thinking of 31-33 years old version of Jagr.

Drai is the player to emulate here...Drai creates garbage in front of him by having an indecent conversion rate.

He is surprisingly fast. He can go around people using stick handling and speed alone. So can sone 6’1 players. But the difference with him is he can create time and space with his power and reach even at full speed. Much easier for him to get to the net than a regular 6’1 forward.

He might have the most powerful legs coming out of any draft ever and Ds are unable to check him or knock him down. His capacity to stay on his feet and keep possession of the puck despite 2 or 3 pro Ds giving their best to knock him down or hanging on to him is generational.

 

[SOLR]

He is surprisingly fast. He can go around people using stick handling and speed alone. So can sone 6’1 players. But the difference with him is he can create time and space with his power and reach even at full speed. Much easier for him to get to the net than a regular 6’1 forward.

He might have the most powerful legs coming out of any draft ever and Ds are unable to check him or knock him down. His capacity to stay on his feet and keep possession of the puck despite 2 or 3 pro Ds giving their best to knock him down or hanging on to him is generational.

I agree he's a train, but one that will have the same first principles as Drai while being a little faster potentially. Ie. speed isn't the primary factor here, it's more speed combined with strength that will allow him to collect garbage at an impressive rate. The difference I'm highlighting here: on the rush, I'm not expecting as much from him as we've seen before once in the NHL.

 

[JoelWarlord]

So we're now at the point where saying the guy has great hands and an ability to make dekes at full speed which can be verified by any person with a functioning internet connection and the attention span to watch 30 seconds of highlights is considered hyperbole?

The start of the season can not come soon enough.

 

[Runner77]

The dirty secret is that the AHL is not much of a development league. It’s a place where team assets are parked when there‘s no room in the NHL. For the better young prospects the time they need to get bigger, faster and stronger to play against man. Aside from a few exceptions, there’s not much improvement in skills.

Interesting take.

This piece concurs, cites a study to back up its claim and refers to the AHL as a holding cell, based on the argument that teams own too many assets: The AHL is a bad league for developing prospects

 

[Kennerback]

I agree he's a train, but one that will have the same first principles as Drai while being a little faster potentially. Ie. speed isn't the primary factor here, it's more speed combined with strength that will allow him to collect garbage at an impressive rate. The difference I'm highlighting here: on the rush, I'm not expecting as much from him as we've seen before once in the NHL.

I’ve never seen a player do this so often: he takes a hard body check along the boards during rushes, yet keeps the puck like it was nothing and continues skating past the checker. How do you quantify that skill? How many players can do that?

 

[SOLR]

I’ve never seen a player do this so often: he takes hard body check along the boards during rushes, yet keeps the puck like it was nothing and continues skating past the checker. How do you quantify that skill? How many players can do that?

Yeah that's Drai...

Rick Nash...has been my description for Slaf for the past year hehe.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I’ve never seen a player take so many hard body check along the boards during rushes. Keeping the puck like it was nothing and continue skating past the checker. How do you quantify that skill? How many players can do that?

...hopefully Slaf the Slaughterer...

 

[Mandala]

You are behind the time on the topic.

Im expecting you to expatriate toward another forum pretty soonly. Camp is coming dude, camp is coming!

Look I have defended you when I disagreed with you but at least be classy with others.

 

[Kennerback]

Yeah that's Drai...

Rick Nash...has been my description for Slaf for the past year hehe.

Maybe this could be something to measure. How many players skating hard along the boards during a rush, wilfully take the body check. I guess little. They’ll try to avoid the check by stopping or maneuvering . Some will try to go fast enough to squeak by. Slafkovsky accepts the body check and leaves the D in his wake.

 

[SOLR]

Maybe this could be something to measure. How many players skating hard along the boards during a rush, wilfully take the body check. I guess little. They’ll try to avoid the check by stopping or maneuvering . Some will try to go fast enough to squeak by. Slafkovsky accepts the body check and leaves the D in his wake.

It's something that players with 1 standard of deviation bigger can do easily. Rantanen does that all the time as well.

 

[Paddy17]

Hughes to Dach: we're gonna play offense. I almost cried.
Slaf going to meet Mesar, all smiles, was great to see.
Great vid, thanks!

Me too! I just wrote about that in the management thread... absolutely love that!
Win or loose, we're going to have fun watching this team for the next few years.

 

[Kiss Under the Guy]

Interesting take.

This piece concurs, cites a study to back up its claim and refers to the AHL as a holding cell, based on the argument that teams own too many assets: The AHL is a bad league for developing prospects

I don't agree that AHL isn't a development league. It doesn't mean it's the best choice for each and every player, there's junior, NCAA, Europe and all. It does have the added benefit of being a place to park overflow players.

I didn't like that piece though. The author does get numbers to try and prove his point, but the stats he's trying to use aren't really what you'd like to use in the first place. Of course, a player who spends a year in the NHL will see his NHL-career probabilities improve whereas a player who spent a year in the AHL will see his probabilities decrease! As for the second stat, "star-player-probabilities" (ignoring the fact that it's hardly measurable), following the evolution of such stat in a 5-year span at the AHL level isn't relevant at all. A star NHL player might spend 3 years+ in the AHL, but it's more the exception than the norm.

 

[the]

I love seeing Jeff Gorton just sitting there like a mafia boss and analyzing everyone's work making sure everything is on point.

 

[montreal]

Interesting take.

This piece concurs, cites a study to back up its claim and refers to the AHL as a holding cell, based on the argument that teams own too many assets: The AHL is a bad league for developing prospects

sorry but that article really misses the mark imo. The whole thing seems based off his suggestion,

If we want to evaluate the claim “The AHL is better for development than the NHL,” then what should happen is a prospect’s projected value should increase more in AHL seasons than in NHL seasons.

The problem is that he has that backwards. A prospects value should decrease more in AHL seasons then in NHL seasons because of various factors. Some players peaked at 16, 17, 18, etc.., major injuries, players not working hard enough, etc... There's a reason why the stats on draft picks making the NHL outside of 1st round picks is very telling. At 17, 18, the warts not exposed yet because most of the time the 18, 19 year olds in the NHL are there because they were top 5 picks. Granted not always the case, some players that were either injured a lot in their draft year and fell at the draft or guys that were under scouted which is rare when talking about 18/19 year old NHLers.

Plus I wouldn't look at it as the AHL is a better league to develop then the NHL. I would say for many it's the better league because the skills they need to have success in the NHL aren't fully there yet or they lack confidence from say not being physically mature yet.

 

[danyhabsfan]

I dont hate Slafkovsky but those argument are so weak.

He owned the stage in this tournament or in that tournament...Those are really short tournament and you can have some puck luck and have good stats.

Even Kotkaniemi started the playoffs in 2021 with 4 goals in 7 games.






Slaf played mostly in Finland with 10 pts in 31 games and in the playoffs where he owned the moment he had 2 goals and 7 pts in 18 games...

This encourage me a little bit.

 

[JianYang]

I dont hate Slafkovsky but those argument are so weak.

He owned the stage in this tournament or in that tournament...Those are really short tournament and you can have some puck luck and have good stats.

Even Kotkaniemi started the playoffs in 2021 with 4 goals in 7 games.






Slaf played mostly in Finland with 10 pts in 31 games and in the playoffs where he owned the moment he had 2 goals and 7 pts in 18 games...

This encourage me a little bit.
View attachment 579896

It shows he really took off after the Olympics, but it also shows that we need to be cautious at the same time.

You look at the kind of player pool party is today, and the type of numbers he put up on this chart, and it just goes to show that it's hard to predict the future.

 

[salbutera]

I dont hate Slafkovsky but those argument are so weak.

He owned the stage in this tournament or in that tournament...Those are really short tournament and you can have some puck luck and have good stats.

Even Kotkaniemi started the playoffs in 2021 with 4 goals in 7 games.






Slaf played mostly in Finland with 10 pts in 31 games and in the playoffs where he owned the moment he had 2 goals and 7 pts in 18 games...

This encourage me a little bit.
View attachment 579896

Again the debate should be around HuGos strategy of Slafkovsky + Dach > Wright / Cooley + Romanov because it’s evident the 1OA pick was not done in a siloed vacuum.

 

[Runner77]

sorry but that article really misses the mark imo. The whole thing seems based off his suggestion,



The problem is that he has that backwards. A prospects value should decrease more in AHL seasons then in NHL seasons because of various factors. Some players peaked at 16, 17, 18, etc.., major injuries, players not working hard enough, etc... There's a reason why the stats on draft picks making the NHL outside of 1st round picks is very telling. At 17, 18, the warts not exposed yet because most of the time the 18, 19 year olds in the NHL are there because they were top 5 picks. Granted not always the case, some players that were either injured a lot in their draft year and fell at the draft or guys that were under scouted which is rare when talking about 18/19 year old NHLers.

Plus I wouldn't look at it as the AHL is a better league to develop then the NHL. I would say for many it's the better league because the skills they need to have success in the NHL aren't fully there yet or they lack confidence from say not being physically mature yet.

You raise several cogent points however, there is no denying that teams control a lot of players and the majority can’t play at the NHL level due to lack of space and/or talent or needing more development time.

I merely happened to find a piece that supported the claim made by the original poster. Maybe that poster can add more arguments to support his position.

Again the debate should be around HuGos strategy of Slafkovsky + Dach > Wright / Cooley + Romanov because it’s evident the 1OA pick was not done in a siloed vacuum.

Not sure about that. How about — they liked Slaf a lot more but they also needed a top 6 C but did not like the candidates in this summer’s slate.

So, rather than reach for a C with a 1OA pick, they looked at filling their C need by trading from a position of depth.

 

[Scintillating10]

Yeah, I just watched it. I think next few years be exciting times for Montreal fans. Gone are Trevor Timmins days

Combination of skill and attitude from Slaf I like Feel better about Mesar pick now. I was hoping for Kulich at 26. Beck liked his interview. Hutson they said has tremendous offensive upside.

Liked Hughes approach to calling Dach. Very upbeat

 

[montreal]

You raise several cogent points however, there is no denying that teams control a lot of players and the majority can’t play at the NHL level due to lack of space and/or talent or needing more development time.

I merely happened to find a piece that supported the claim made by the original poster. Maybe that poster can add more arguments to support his position.

Yes that part is 100% correct as teams control their prospects and there's often very limited space for them. It's much worse in MLB but that's for another topic.

There's a good reason why the NHL is made up mostly of players that spent any length of time in the AHL (I saw a stat years ago that said over 80% of the current NHLers appeared in the AHL at some point, though I could have that wrong from memory). So i'm a big believer in the AHL because it works, of course it's not the end all be all for development, much of course is left to the player and they have to put the work in unless they are a Crosby, McDavid, etc.. and those are no doubters that won't see the AHL ever.

Of course as well mistakes are made, to me I see a lot of them mostly under one head coach of the team but even then the player still has a share in the blame when things go wrong.

 

[CHfan1]

Yes that part is 100% correct as teams control their prospects and there's often very limited space for them. It's much worse in MLB but that's for another topic.

There's a good reason why the NHL is made up mostly of players that spent any length of time in the AHL (I saw a stat years ago that said over 80% of the current NHLers appeared in the AHL at some point, though I could have that wrong from memory). So i'm a big believer in the AHL because it works, of course it's not the end all be all for development, much of course is left to the player and they have to put the work in unless they are a Crosby, McDavid, etc.. and those are no doubters that won't see the AHL ever.

Of course as well mistakes are made, to me I see a lot of them mostly under one head coach of the team but even then the player still has a share in the blame when things go wrong.

Article on Peyton Krebs that talks about him playing in the AHL. The AHL allows players like Krebs and potentially Slafkovsky to play in situations they wouldn’t at the NHL level (at the start of their careers) to grow their game and confidence.

From the article:

When Buffalo’s season ended, Krebs was returned to the AHL. This time, though, it wasn’t a demotion but rather an opportunity to gain playoff experience, and he arrived armed with renewed confidence.

Appert believes the experience will help Krebs take the next step. “To be trusted defensively, to be out there in the last minutes of an elimination game and have to execute, those are important moments,” Appert said. “Sometimes, a younger player in the NHL can just survive, and that’s OK because the older guys are doing the heavy lifting, but in the AHL, we’re counting on our younger guys to deliver. It’s a healthy pressure and you gain and earn a lot of confidence in yourself.”

Peyton Krebs is the Sabres' Shining Knight | The Hockey News

 

[Runner77]

Yes that part is 100% correct as teams control their prospects and there's often very limited space for them. It's much worse in MLB but that's for another topic.

There's a good reason why the NHL is made up mostly of players that spent any length of time in the AHL (I saw a stat years ago that said over 80% of the current NHLers appeared in the AHL at some point, though I could have that wrong from memory). So i'm a big believer in the AHL because it works, of course it's not the end all be all for development, much of course is left to the player and they have to put the work in unless they are a Crosby, McDavid, etc.. and those are no doubters that won't see the AHL ever.

Of course as well mistakes are made, to me I see a lot of them mostly under one head coach of the team but even then the player still has a share in the blame when things go wrong.

Would you not say that development in the AHL is variable from one org. to another?

Is it not also a function of how much budget an org. is willing to allocate to development as well as who they hire, the quality and experience of its coaching staff and specialists and the development philosophy that permeates a particular org.?

There is also the ability of richer teams to provide better and more facilities and greater development spending given the old argument about how none of what is spent on AHL resources is cap-restricted.

 

[montreal]

Would you not say that development in the AHL is variable from one org. to another?

Is it not also a function of how much budget an org. is willing to allocate to development as well as who they hire, the quality and experience of its coaching staff and specialists and the development philosophy that permeates a particular org.?

There is also the ability of richer teams to provide better and more facilities and greater development spending given the old argument about how none of what is spent on AHL resources is cap-restricted.

for sure, development varies from org to org.

I would say who they hire is a huge part of it, I think this gets vastly overlooked imo, as look at the impact MSL has had over Dom. Now most times it won't be that noticeable in such a big way but hiring the right person for the job is huge. Having the money to spend helps but you have to have the right people in place that know how to spend it, how to use it to their best advantage.

 

[Runner77]

for sure, development varies from org to org.

I would say who they hire is a huge part of it, I think this gets vastly overlooked imo, as look at the impact MSL has had over Dom. Now most times it won't be that noticeable in such a big way but hiring the right person for the job is huge. Having the money to spend helps but you have to have the right people in place that know how to spend it, how to use it to their best advantage.

Hence, the efficacy of AHL development is best gauged on a org. by org. basis.

 

[General Fanager]

Maybe I’m wanting to much because I still like it but I would have like to have more inside on draft day and on the Dach trade

Maybe they will mix that with a section about his signing with The Habs??