Post-Game Talk: Habs 4, Leafs 3: Can't Win in Regulation Edition

[LastRide]

Glad we were able to pull a rabbit out of the hat last night. Weise looks like he should get the lead role in the next horror film.

 

[Thanatos]

I like Morontreal.

But I have to say that after living in Toronto for 3 years, that Toronto is a terrible city on so many levels.

Montreal has its problems, but I prefer it by a long mile to Toronto which has no charm whatsoever.

Meh.
It's a cheap rip-off from the US.
Americans across the lake from Toronto have been calling it "Moronto" for decades.

 

[Alexdaman]

Meh.
It's a cheap rip-off from the US.
Americans across the lake from Toronto have been calling it "Moronto" for decades.

Moronto is a bunch different tribes living in the same area with no desire to mingle with each other.

You can get awesome Chinese or Indian food and walk around the eaton centre and feel right in the midst of americuh and thats about it for your Toronto thrill.

Montreal is a much more subtile and bonded city and it was built to reflect a strong cultural identity, foreigners can almost feel like home when touring the city for the first time. To me Montreal is one of the best places in north america, Toronto is merely a commercial hub.

 

[MasterDecoy]

i love what weise is bringing to the team. so far...

 

[Hoople]

It has nothing to do with hate or love of DD/Eller.

Our lines are unbalanced, the team despite what the record says isn't playing well. We consistently get outshot, outchanced, and have issues scoring. We heavily rely on special teams and goaltending. We did the same thing under Carbo and that lead us to a top place finish. But we weren't actually good. Looking at our record and saying ''hey, we're 3rd, things must be good'' is the worst way to analyse our team.
The difference is we can be a much more organized team and play way better.

With Galchenyuk back, there is only one line that is not producing as expected. And you are not going to like to hear who that is.

Lars Eller.

Bourque is the anchor around Eller's neck. That's why I hope that Bergevin can somehow get Moulson to Montreal. Eller needs a LW who actually hustles and plays hockey.

Once White gets back and is teamed with Weise and Moen, we will have a very capable 4th line.

This team would improve significantly with the removal of Bourque from the city of Montreal.

Eller Briere and Moulson would be a sweet line.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

i love what weise is bringing to the team. so far...

A new smile?

 

[PsychoticHab]

Does Weise have a nickname yet?

He does have "Dutch Gretzky"

 

[MasterDecoy]

A new smile?

too soon bro, too soon

 

[Dominator13]

Sucks for Weise, plus I wanted to see what he looks like when he drops the mitts, which hasn't happened yet for some reason..

Speaking of, did anybody notice yesterday how fun it was to actually watch a HOCKEY game for a change with the leafs? There's no more intimidation now cause we have the grit to match their's. You can sit and cry about Parros and Murray all day, but you really have to be clueless to not see the intangibles they bring the Habs.

 

[PG Canuck]

Does Weise have a nickname yet?

He does have "Dutch Gretzky"

Dutch Gretzky would be correct.

 

[Kikizaz]

He works way harder to get the puck instead of waiting for it. With all his talent, when he wants, he gets it. He's becoming an awesome player to watch, we have to make room for him at center for next year.

I really don't think we need to make room at C next for Galchenyuk. He's playing wing with our best centerman. Let him take a spot at C from our other centres.

 

[Kikizaz]

Sucks for Weise, plus I wanted to see what he looks like when he drops the mitts, which hasn't happened yet for some reason..

Speaking of, did anybody notice yesterday how fun it was to actually watch a HOCKEY game for a change with the leafs? There's no more intimidation now cause we have the grit to match their's. You can sit and cry about Parros and Murray all day, but you really have to be clueless to not see the intangibles they bring the Habs.

Has there really been much of a need to fight?

We haven't been cheap-shotted and we've been winning. Good teams fight when they have to, bad teams fight to fight. Fighting just to fight is silly, It's what we all hated about Laraque. I really like how many fights we have, considering we don't "square off" very much off of face offs.

This, imo, shows a willingness to stick up for the team instead of just sending a fax that no one cares about. We also have 6 guys right now on the roster who can drop the mitts, so it really shouldn't be pressed upon Weise to do. He's a decent 4th liner who can eat up minutes, without messing up, as a bottom liner. Whether he scores or fights is kinda besides the point.

 

[Kikizaz]

With Galchenyuk back, there is only one line that is not producing as expected. And you are not going to like to hear who that is.

Lars Eller.

Bourque is the anchor around Eller's neck. That's why I hope that Bergevin can somehow get Moulson to Montreal. Eller needs a LW who actually hustles and plays hockey.

Once White gets back and is teamed with Weise and Moen, we will have a very capable 4th line.

This team would improve significantly with the removal of Bourque from the city of Montreal.

Eller Briere and Moulson would be a sweet line.

Eek almighty.

Lars Eller is not a line. Just cause we have 3 top 9 lines does not mean we have to have 1 C doing poorly. Eller may not score very much, but neither do Bourque or Weiss. It's a line set up to eat up minutes and work the boards. They don't suck as a line, they just eat up time until our chosen children line is ready to try to score again.

And it's working right now.

 

[HABS win CUPS*]

Ffs the cheerleaders should stop posting once in a while. Subban didn't only get bench because of his mistake but for the clear lack of effort trying to backcheck or save his error... it was well deserved and although I need to watch it again, it looked like he again took his time before backchecking on Van Riemsdyk goal after Markov mistake... Subban is too good and talented to waste it on mental mistakes like these...he's a very frustrating player to watch.

Yea he made a big mistake I'm pretty sure he knows it and it don't see how benching him to add to the humiliation helps he's not trying to work into the 7-8 D spot on the habs he's our best player right now aside from Price

He didn't go harder on the back check because the other Dman had the closest shot to stop the play he would have made it worse by trying to cut in there

It's not cheerleading why take a dump on your star player show confidence and let I them makes mistakes without Therrien trying to make it look like he has some kind of plan that go interrupted

 

[HABS win CUPS*]

I don't know where to post that but last week-end on SRC's Culture Club, Guy Carbonneau said he really likes Nickleback.

Jesus fire him......AGAIN

 

[HABS win CUPS*]

He does have "Dutch Gretzky"

scarstache?

 

[Lshap]

Has there really been much of a need to fight?

We haven't been cheap-shotted and we've been winning. Good teams fight when they have to, bad teams fight to fight. Fighting just to fight is silly, It's what we all hated about Laraque. I really like how many fights we have, considering we don't "square off" very much off of face offs.

This, imo, shows a willingness to stick up for the team instead of just sending a fax that no one cares about. We also have 6 guys right now on the roster who can drop the mitts, so it really shouldn't be pressed upon Weise to do. He's a decent 4th liner who can eat up minutes, without messing up, as a bottom liner. Whether he scores or fights is kinda besides the point.

Agree completely. The tonal shift of our roster has taken away the intimidation card from the opposition's playbook. Or at least minimized it. We'll see how tonight's game against LA goes. But yeah -- fighting for its own sake is a waste of energy, as you said.

Eek almighty.

Lars Eller is not a line. Just cause we have 3 top 9 lines does not mean we have to have 1 C doing poorly. Eller may not score very much, but neither do Bourque or Weiss. It's a line set up to eat up minutes and work the boards. They don't suck as a line, they just eat up time until our chosen children line is ready to try to score again.

And it's working right now.

Here we disagree. Eller is supposed to be more than a space-filler. He's been sold as a potentially productive 2nd or 3rd-liner, and he's done just that for chunks of the last two seasons. What we're seeing recently is a mentally defeated Eller who's lost his mojo. Even his defensive game is erratic and unmotivated. Some of the problem is linemates, but most is squarely on Eller himself, who appears less willing to commit his body and legs to the play. Something's not right with the guy, and I refuse to dump all blame on Therrien.

 

[Kriss E]

With Galchenyuk back, there is only one line that is not producing as expected. And you are not going to like to hear who that is.

Lars Eller.

Bourque is the anchor around Eller's neck. That's why I hope that Bergevin can somehow get Moulson to Montreal. Eller needs a LW who actually hustles and plays hockey.

Once White gets back and is teamed with Weise and Moen, we will have a very capable 4th line.

This team would improve significantly with the removal of Bourque from the city of Montreal.

Eller Briere and Moulson would be a sweet line.

I have no problem saying Eller's line isn't producing. It's not a secret.

With the way Therrien has split the roles for each line and the way he's built the lines, I can't blame Eller.

There's no reason I can think of for the EGG line not to be reunited. MaxPac and DD have always produced well, they will keep doing so with or without Gallagher. Not trying to get more out of Eller's line offensively is just completely stupid. It would only benefit the team. So I don't understand why this was never done.
Personally, I would have the whole top 9 rearranged, but I would have done so since training camp. Plek-Eller-Gally would be my centers, or at the very least, I would have tried this (with DD on the wing).

In any event, you can hope for Moulson, I personally don't think Bergevin will do anything.

 

[hototogisu]

I have no problem saying Eller's line isn't producing. It's not a secret.

With the way Therrien has split the roles for each line and the way he's built the lines, I can't blame Eller.

There's no reason I can think of for the EGG line not to be reunited. MaxPac and DD have always produced well, they will keep doing so with or without Gallagher. Not trying to get more out of Eller's line offensively is just completely stupid. It would only benefit the team. So I don't understand why this was never done.
Personally, I would have the whole top 9 rearranged, but I would have done so since training camp. Plek-Eller-Gally would be my centers, or at the very least, I would have tried this (with DD on the wing).

In any event, you can hope for Moulson, I personally don't think Bergevin will do anything.

Isn't this getting a bit silly though? First it was "well Eller has no one to play with with Galchenyuk hurt". Which was fair. Now Galchenyuk's back on his wing and it's "well, what about Gallagher?". I mean...? Can we put one tiny, minuscule, microbial speck of responsibility on Eller?

Galchenyuk has played 2 games since coming back and already has more goals than Eller has in 2 months. It's not rocket science. We shouldn't need to have the planets align for Eller to contribute offensively.

 

[Andy]

Isn't this getting a bit silly though? First it was "well Eller has no one to play with with Galchenyuk hurt". Which was fair. Now Galchenyuk's back on his wing and it's "well, what about Gallagher?". I mean...? Can we put one tiny, minuscule, microbial speck of responsibility on Eller?

Galchenyuk has played 2 games since coming back and already has more goals than Eller has in 2 months. It's not rocket science. We shouldn't need to have the planets align for Eller to contribute offensively.

Wasn't he back on his wing for like 1 and a half periods?

I agree with everything else.

However, I'll say this, though he has looked bad, there has also been quite a few games where he has looked good and set up his linemates who just haven't finished a play. However, because we are so focused on points to determine the quality of play, no one can give him much credit for playing well in game he hasn't produced on the score sheet. It's just how it goes.

He needs to pick up his play for sure, but he's not the type of player who can produce all by himself (do the Habs have such a player).

I said it at the beginning of the year, I would be surprised to see Eller get more than 30-35 points MAX without quality wingers and offensive role and some PP time. He's a little behind the pace, but I'm not the surprised...especially when you consider the Habs stuggles offensive as a whole. Everyone has regressed points wise.

Personally, I think the replacement of Ryder with Briere screwed up the whole 3 offensive line mojo. MT has been using one line as offensive catalyst and depending on others to carry the defensive load. Much different from last season where he spread the wealth quite a bit, especially on the PP and actually leaned on his 4th line to take the defensive burden.

 

[Kriss E]

Here we disagree. Eller is supposed to be more than a space-filler. He's been sold as a potentially productive 2nd or 3rd-liner, and he's done just that for chunks of the last two seasons. What we're seeing recently is a mentally defeated Eller who's lost his mojo. Even his defensive game is erratic and unmotivated. Some of the problem is linemates, but most is squarely on Eller himself, who appears less willing to commit his body and legs to the play. Something's not right with the guy, and I refuse to dump all blame on Therrien.

I refuse to blame Eller.

Look back at this kid's career and utilization. He has had to work the hardest out of everybody just get a sniff of offensive opportunities.
Every time he was given capable wingers, and more offensive opportunities, he's produced. This is an undeniable fact, not an opinion.
I understood keeping him back when we first acquired him. The way he improved his defensive game under Martin was quite evident. But even Martin knew to give him a little more chances and try him with better wingers in his 2nd year. It lead to him and AK finding some great chemistry. They owned their opposition. Then Martin got fired, RC took over and broke that up.
Last year, with a one week training camp, no exhibition games, under a new system, we lose our opening game to Toronto. The whole team looked bad, confused, and disorganized. Pretty normal considering the short camp and new system. Nonetheless, Eller is targeted by the coach and scratched. Before the season started, Therrien called out Eller saying it was a make or break year for him.
After being scratched for 2 games, he comes back on the 4th line. He plays well. He gets promoted, he gets tried as a winger, until finally they make him center Galy and Prust. It works really well. That line, along with the EGG line later, dominate their opponents. They are pulling the team on many nights and are our advantage going into the POs. He finishes with 30pts in 46gp, which usually is the production of 2nd line centers - top 6 talent, and does so without PP opportunities and limited ice time.
Finally, Eller has arrived. At least that's the belief.

This year starts, they pick up exactly where they left it. The EGG line does great together. Out of the first 20 games, these guys are split up a few times in order to help others produce. All in all, they play about 16-17 of the first games together.
They all are on the same point pace or more than the one of last season. Gallagher is in a very nice position to hit 30-35 goals.
Alas, they are split up again and this time, Gallagher stays on DD's wing. At that point, Eller's ice time starts to drop, the PP opportunities also diminishes until they pretty much are halted. At least Galchenyuk is still on Eller's wing, and that helps him maintain a .5 point ratio, which is very decent. But then, the production from the Plekanec line isn't where it should be, and Bourque is useless there.
So up Galchenyuk goes, Bourque is moved next to Eller.

Eller goes from having two good wingers, getting more ice time, PP opportunities, and producing, to having that cut up in half, and still, he produced, until finally, it was all taken away from him which lead to him not producing and looking pretty bad out there. And people are seriously trying to understand what is wrong??? Really?? Is it that difficult to figure out?

The guy had to bend over backwards to get better chances last year. Now people are expecting him to want to do the same thing again?? I can't blame him for not really being at the top of his game right now. What's the point?? They're not going to give him more offensive opportunities, no PP time, and his line will eventually be broken up.
If I'm Eller, I'm seriously pissed with the way I've been used this year. Going to work unhappy can easily be noticed. It makes a huge difference. That's what we're seeing from Eller imo.
He still battles hard, and does his job like a professional, but he isn't happy and it's reflective in his game.

It's all on Therrien. I'm not going to blame the kid for not making a rather mediocre Prust (this year) not produce, or not working well with a guy even Plekanec couldn't make work in Bourque, or not making Weise or Moen into scorers.

 

[JAVO16]

Stopped reading after that first statement.

 

[Kriss E]

Isn't this getting a bit silly though? First it was "well Eller has no one to play with with Galchenyuk hurt". Which was fair. Now Galchenyuk's back on his wing and it's "well, what about Gallagher?". I mean...? Can we put one tiny, minuscule, microbial speck of responsibility on Eller?

Galchenyuk has played 2 games since coming back and already has more goals than Eller has in 2 months. It's not rocket science. We shouldn't need to have the planets align for Eller to contribute offensively.

Galchenyuk played a couple of shifts with Eller until moved up to play with Plek.
That's pretty much my point. Eller gets no help from his coach.

If Eller was bad coming out of the gate all the way to today, sure, I would blame him for it.
If Eller didn't average about a 50pt ratio while playing with the EGG line, sure, blame him.
If he didn't still average a .5 ratio with Galy and a scrapper, sure, blame him.
If we were talking about a guy that still hadn't proven himself, sure, blame him.
But I'm not going to blame the guy because everything was working well for him until everything was taken away from him. Take everything away from DD, or even Plek, make them play with 2 crap players, with less ice time and no PP time, see how well that works for them. After that, blame them for not working well.
That's some special kind of backward thinking.

 

[MasterDecoy]

I refuse to blame Eller.

yeah ok...

 

[Thanatos]

Moronto is a bunch different tribes living in the same area with no desire to mingle with each other.

You can get awesome Chinese or Indian food and walk around the eaton centre and feel right in the midst of americuh and thats about it for your Toronto thrill.

Montreal is a much more subtile and bonded city and it was built to reflect a strong cultural identity, foreigners can almost feel like home when touring the city for the first time. To me Montreal is one of the best places in north america, Toronto is merely a commercial hub.

I know.

I'm an American. A rural American.
I strongly dislike cities.

One set of my grandparents were Canadian though, so I have a bit of blood affinity...and I have several distant cousins throughout Quebec, Ontario and Manitoba.

Montreal would lead my short list of cities I respect and enjoy.
Toronto, on the other hand, I neither respect nor enjoy. If I never returned there again, I won't be missing anything.