Speculation: Grubauer and WSH goaltending situation

[PatrikOverAuston]

Holtby's value is likely close to the established precedent of Schneider, Varlamov, Lehner, Martin Jones, etc. and he's better and more proven so his value is likely around a mid-1st (8-15). I'm not sure either of those packages would be worth similar value without the Cap Dump Gs.

Wait so then why did you dump all over the Edmonton pick as a centerpiece for Holtby?

 

[StephenPeat]

Wait so then why did you dump all over the Edmonton pick as a centerpiece for Holtby?

If that pick is 8 sure, I think I'd consider that for Holtby, I don't think that pick will be 8 and if it's actually 11th or worse Benning and Slepyshev are less valuable to the Caps than that exchange of pick value.

 

[LakeLivin]

Just like with Andersen and Gibson, or Bishop and Vasilevsky, you trade the older more expensive guy and hand the keys to the younger cheaper guy.

Or Crawford and Darling?

 

[StephenPeat]

Thank you for the detailed response.

I am confused by your pleasentness. Do you want to fight, get a beer, this is awkward. I'm really not sure how to respond. I think I like you.

 

[StephenPeat]

Or Crawford and Darling?

Maybe the Hawks should have traded both.

Ooowww also Halak and Price, I like this exercise this is fun. Let's trade em all and go with a perpetual extra attacker, like a 60min. PowerPlay.

 

[discobob]

To those fans trying to give the Caps a goalie in ANY trade. Caps are goalie deep, and any goalie effectively has negative value...

You may not like that, but it's a fact. The whole reason this thread exists is because of goalie depth...

 

[Suds]

Don't we need more time to see if Grubby is consistent? He's a gamble for any buyer.

Sign says - "needs further testing"

 

[hb12xchamps]

I am not sure how long you have been a fan but for a lot of people "winning those President's Trophies" does not count for much.

And you name them guys like they were not one of the top five most talented teams in each of them years.

Pulse being +50 is no joke.

Winning the Presidents Trophy is not the point I was making. I was countering your argument that Holtby was a byproduct of a good team by showcasing to you that he had very good numbers with an absolute downgrade of a defense in front of him.

All of the guys I mentioned are out of the NHL or retired because their game fell off a cliff while they were with the Caps. They all played significant minutes for the Caps.

Schultz being +50 happened when Holtby was still in the minors splitting time between the ECHL and AHL

 

[hb12xchamps]

I said late 1st and 2nd same as both Anderson and Jones, but he'll also be older than the two (when he's traded/if)

He’ll be older but he will still be in his prime and is still a top 3 goaltender in the NHL. He holds more value than all of those guys

 

[StephenPeat]

Don't we need more time to see if Grubby is consistent? He's a gamble for any buyer.

Sign says - "needs further testing"

There's a certain price on a Grubauer trade today and it's almost undoubtedly high. If Grubauer demonstrates even more consistency than he already has, the cost is only going to go up.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Don't we need more time to see if Grubby is consistent? He's a gamble for any buyer.

Sign says - "needs further testing"

In 100 GP he has a 2.27 GAA and .927 save %. He's gotten better every year and is prying the net away from Holtby this season. He's more of a proven commodity than Martin Jones or Corey Schneider were when they both returned 1st round picks.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

In 100 GP he has a 2.27 GAA and .927 save %. He's gotten better every year and is prying the net away from Holtby this season. He's more of a proven commodity than Martin Jones or Corey Schneider were when they both returned 1st round picks.

Their values look similar to me.

 

[MinJaBen]

To those fans trying to give the Caps a goalie in ANY trade. Caps are goalie deep, and any goalie effectively has negative value...

You may not like that, but it's a fact. The whole reason this thread exists is because of goalie depth...

Goalie depth does not mean negative value. The Caps will get a good price for Grubauer if they choose to move him.

 

[Instincts]

I probably would move Holtby to LI, resign John Carlson and Grubauer and try to dump Orpik, makes most sense

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Their values look similar to me.

No arguments here... I won't complain with a top-10 pick or a 1st + a Kuraly-type prospect as a return for Grubauer.

 

[staalgood]

If I was Carolina's GM and who knows since they don't have one, I would offer our first for Grubauer. This draft is full of defensive prospects and that is one area Carolina is stocked. The Canes biggest needs are top 6 centers and goaltending. Grubauer would appear to address one of those needs.

 

[MinJaBen]

If I was Carolina's GM and who knows since they don't have one, I would offer our first for Grubauer. This draft is full of defensive prospects and that is one area Carolina is stocked. The Canes biggest needs are top 6 centers and goaltending. Grubauer would appear to address one of those needs.

I'd be willing to entertain using our 1st this year (11th as of now) for Grubauer. I'd want the option to talk with him ahead of time about general contract desires and would want to make the decision at the draft table, just in case someone we really like falls to 11th (Wahlstrom, for example).

 

[discobob]

Goalie depth does not mean negative value. The Caps will get a good price for Grubauer if they choose to move him.

You are just dead wrong - the Caps DO NOT want another goalie in their system, unless the goalie is developing in a lower league. Even then, it would have little value.

Caps are against the cap, and have 2x starters, and reasonable NHL backups options. They would be trading from a position of strength to fill a position of need. Therefore, any goalie coming back is unhelpful...

You may not like that answer, but any knowledgable Caps fan will tell you the same thing.

 

[MinJaBen]

You are just dead wrong - the Caps DO NOT want another goalie in their system, unless the goalie is developing in a lower league. Even then, it would have little value.

Caps are against the cap, and have 2x starters, and reasonable NHL backups options. They would be trading from a position of strength to fill a position of need. Therefore, any goalie coming back is unhelpful...

You may not like that answer, but any knowledgable Caps fan will tell you the same thing.

My bad! I misread your post that I replied to. I thought you were arguing against the Caps getting a good price for one of the goalies because of your abundance of them. I missed that you were arguing against getting one back in trade for one you are giving up. I completely agree with that position.

I clearly didn't have enough coffee this morning...

 

[Canada4Gold]

I always thought they'd eventually trade Grubauer going the route a lot of these teams go by trading their backup goalies for a good haul when they are good enough to be starters elsewhere. However I really like Grubauer, so I think they actually could end up better off trading Holtby for a huge haul and run with Grubauer and eventually Samsonov.

 

[Misery74]

I'd be willing to entertain using our 1st this year (11th as of now) for Grubauer. I'd want the option to talk with him ahead of time about general contract desires and would want to make the decision at the draft table, just in case someone we really like falls to 11th (Wahlstrom, for example).

I think there is a better chance Holtby goes at this point. Simple math really.

He would cost more than Grubauer; but a first and a very good prospect could get it done.

 

[Dack]

You don't seem to understand either.

The Flames deal is a spicy vomit in the mouth. You've doubled down on the terrible deal the previous Flames fan proposed.
Let's set em up, and shoot em down.

Taking on a multi-season dump in Scott Darling would likely require either of Bean or Kuokkanen on its own. Holtby's value is higher than the other Prospect alone so that's a no go. Either dial up the value or remove Darling. Again the Caps don't need to take a Cap Dump to facilitate moving Holtby and his value is better than mid-tier prospects. My counter would be along the lines of Holtby --> Bean + 3RD + non-G short-term salary.

The Flames deal is decidedly worse. Smith is at best undesirable Salary to the Caps, Mangiapane a recent 6th Rd Pick and Dube a run-of-the-mill mid-tier Prospect. That's a bunch of chaff.

Holtby's value is likely close to the established precedent of Schneider, Varlamov, Lehner, Martin Jones, etc. and he's better and more proven so his value is likely around a mid-1st (8-15). I'm not sure either of those packages would be worth similar value without the Cap Dump Gs.

P.S. The idea behind trading Holtby is to pass the torch to Grubauer. The Caps have goalies in the AHL (Copley and Vanecek) I'd rather trust behind Grubauer and our defense than Smith and certainly Darling.

I get that it's not a viable deal for Holtby but one year of 4.25 Mike Smith is not even close to being a cap dump. It's just what he's worth the Flames aren't paying any team to take that on. It's not a cap dump.

Also I think your evaluation of our prospects is off. Again I understand you don't want this deal for Holtby which is fine because I don't think we will target him anyways. Most of the guys listed are better than you make them sound.

 

[MinJaBen]

I think there is a better chance Holtby goes at this point. Simple math really.

He would cost more than Grubauer; but a first and a very good prospect could get it done.

Honestly, I don't want Holtby. I think he is a head case and would have a breakdown in Bill Peters system in Carolina. I'd be willing to trade for Grubauer, but would avoid trading for Holtby.

 

[GoldiFox]

Canes 2018 1st (#11 OA) + NHL-ready Forward Prospect (Kuokkanen, Saarela, Wallmark) for Holtby

I'd throw a parade if the Canes nabbed Holtby. Unfortunately I seriously doubt they trade him (or Grubauer) in the division.

 

[NDiesel]

There is only a 2 year age difference, 100% they keep Holtby.