Gretzky vs Brady

[Bronxxx]

And Gretzky is not even the most skilled forward of his era.

Whoa. I had to to a double take. Who is then?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

In US yes, but globaly? Doubt it. American football is only played, and watched in NA. Hockey has NA, Russia and a large part of Europe playing.

Basketball and baseball are much more popular in Europe and the superbowl is right up there with the fifa world cup as far as reach

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

That doesn't mean it's wrong. Gretzky is the biggest statistical outlier, in so many categories of any of the players considered GOATS.

Brady is a great , all time QB, who played on a number of really good teams in almost always terrible divisions. But he has plenty of competition in the record book department for QBs.

Gretzky has no competition. If it's solely about the championships, then it's Henri Richard fighting Bill Russell for the title.

Gretzky is not that big of an outlier as everything he did all his major records lemieux came close too. Be it goals points ppg point streak etc

 

[Canovin]

Gretzky is not that big of an outlier as everything he did all his major records lemieux came close too. Be it goals points ppg point streak etc

What are these major awards that Lemieux won that came close to what Gretzky has won?

 

[bobholly39]

Whoa. I had to to a double take. Who is then?

Mario Lemieux? Pretty obvious - who else.

Gretzky > Lemieux for career/accomplishments, but in terms of skill/talent, many people give Lemieux the edge.

 

[JasonRoseEh]

It's Brady and I'm from Gretzky's hometown.

 

[wintersej]

And with the greatest TE in tow. Neither MJ nor Gretzky ever spent their post Bulls/Oilers days with anyone of Gronk's ability.

If you think that out of retirement sans 30 lbs of muscle Gronk is that same guy I dunno what to tell you

 

[Unspecified]

Anyone can play football not everyone can play hockey, give me Gretzky.

 

[bobholly39]

Gretzky is not that big of an outlier as everything he did all his major records lemieux came close too. Be it goals points ppg point streak etc

Gretzky is a huge outlier. Moreso than any other sport i can think of. Just because Lemieux came close in a few cases doesn't mean Gretzky is less an outlier, it just means that for hockey there's a second outlier.

 

[wintersej]

People know that Brady is the all time leader in touchdowns in the regular season and will take over for yards next season too right? It’s not just the 7 rings and all the all time best playoff numbers. Yes Brady has played in a high scoring era, but don’t think 99 fans want to talk about high scoring eras lol.

 

[SotasicA]

Tom Brady because football is bigger than hockey.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Gretzky is a huge outlier. Moreso than any other sport i can think of. Just because Lemieux came close in a few cases doesn't mean Gretzky is less an outlier, it just means that for hockey there's a second outlier.

Hockey is just not that big of a sport tbh. Brady is much more famous than Gretzky and higher up on goat lists for sure. Neither of them touch messi or cr7 of we want to talk about the biggest goats

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Anyone can play football not everyone can play hockey, give me Gretzky.

You ever played football lol? I doubt you even know how to properly throw a football

 

[Unspecified]

You ever played football lol? I doubt you even know how to properly throw a football

Yes, I played all 4 years in HS and 1 year in college, I was a lineman so why would I need to know how to throw a football? The point being anyone can pick up the game of football right out of the gate, hockey not so much at all. I applaud your attempt to insult me i give it a solid 2/10.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

What are these major awards that Lemieux won that came close to what Gretzky has won?

I said records did I not
215 in 80 vs 199 in 76
92 goals vs 85 goals
47 playoff points vs 44 playoff points
51 game point streak vs 46 game point streak

These are Gretzky most coveted records

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Yes, i played all 4 years in HS and 1 year in college. The point being anyone can pick up the game of football right out of the gate, hockey not so much at all.

The hardest part about hockey is the skating aspect. Handling a puck is not rocket science

 

[bobholly39]

Hockey is just not that big of a sport tbh. Brady is much more famous than Gretzky and higher up on goat lists for sure. Neither of them touch messi or cr7 of we want to talk about the biggest goats

NFL >>>>> NHL for popularity in North America. Doubt anyone denies this. I figured we were talking about whose greater relative to their sport though, and not in terms of fame, etc.

I still say Brady is more comparable to a Patrick Roy than Wayne Gretzky. Brady would be Patrick Roy if Patrick Roy had won 6 or 7 conn smythes instead of 3.

 

[Unspecified]

The hardest part about hockey is the skating aspect. Handling a puck is not rocket science

Again WRONG, skating is probably the easiest aspect of hockey as a whole. Applying the stickhandling and eye-hand coordination while you are skating is the hardest thing.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

NFL >>>>> NHL for popularity in North America. Doubt anyone denies this. I figured we were talking about whose greater relative to their sport though, and not in terms of fame, etc.

I still say Brady is more comparable to a Patrick Roy than Wayne Gretzky. Brady would be Patrick Roy if Patrick Roy had won 6 or 7 conn smythes instead of 3.

Brady also has 3 nfl mvps. He is the equivalent of a player having 3 harts 5 smythes and 7 cups

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Again WRONG, skating is probably the easiest aspect of hockey as a whole. Applying the stickhandling and eye-hand coordination while you are skating is the hardest thing.

Which again is not rocket science. I'm not saying hockey is easy. Both sports are hard in their own way.

 

[bobholly39]

Brady also has 3 nfl mvps. He is the equivalent of a player having 3 harts 5 smythes and 7 cups

Sure, and Roy has 3 Vezinas. I know Vezina isn't a hart, but it's very position influenced in hockey.

If you don't like the Roy analogy, stick to a forward like Crosby. If Crosby had 6 or 7 conn smythes instead of 2 - he'd be close to a Brady comparable. Point is Gretzky still is more statistically dominant - but Brady's playoff/championship record is more impressive.

 

[amnesiac]

Brady. Gretzky went to LA and the Oilers won without him. Brady went to TB and turned a shit team into champions overnight.

he didnt win 9 straight MVPs

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Sure, and Roy has 3 Vezinas. I know Vezina isn't a hart, but it's very position influenced in hockey.

If you don't like the Roy analogy, stick to a forward like Crosby. If Crosby had 6 or 7 conn smythes instead of 2 - he'd be close to a Brady comparable. Point is Gretzky still is more statistically dominant - but Brady's playoff/championship record is more impressive.

Which is where the word great comes in. Its a weird thing regardless. If crosby had 7 smythes along with his two harts he'd be seen as the goat for sure

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

People have said this for all 7 of his championships

Did you watch the game last night though? Tampa's d-line was getting immediate penetration, it was comical, Mahomes would drop back and then immediately start scrambling because the edge rushers were just running around the tackles. Brady was good, but he didn't win that game, the defense preventing KC from scoring a touchdown did. Don't know about Brady's other SP wins.

On topic: as a career, Brady > Gretzky. As players relative to their peers, it's Gretzky >>>> Brady. Gretzky separated himself from the competition to video game levels, a manner of dominance not seen since, while Brady, excluding championships (humor me), didn't really separate himself from Manning/Rodgers/Brees/Mahomes of his era.

Brady went to TB and turned a shit team into champions overnight.

Tampa Bay had a good team held back because they hitched their cart to a trash QB in Winston, God knows why.

 

[Video Nasty]

Brady kept winning while playing on a good team, that's great but he doesn't come close to Gretzky's dominance.

During Brady's prime years, Peyton Manning was seen as the best quarterback. Brady was the second best QB who happened to play on a better team.

Baloney.

The Brady-Manning debate was a lot more nuanced than you're letting on. I think it's fair to say that by the time Peyton retired, he remained being seen as the better QB, though it could be easily debated. That perception has obviously drastically altered as Brady has excelled beyond anyone's wildest dreams over the past handful of seasons.

I agree with you that Manning was seen as the better QB early on, a gap that closed as time went on.

But just because Manning underperformed with the teams he had, doesn't mean Brady consistently had better teams.

What I take issue with here is that Manning won 2 rings in spite of his mediocre to downright poor play during both his Super Bowl run wins. The Colts were favorites over their fellow 13-3 Saints and lost in the Super Bowl convincingly. Heavy favorites in his first Denver year and lost in the first round to the Ravens. Favorites against Seattle in the Super Bowl and got blasted there as well.

Manning had a consistent superb collection of offensive weapons throughout his time in Indy and his defense literally dragged his corpse to his swan song with Denver.

I'm not going to list it all here, but look it up. The amount of times a Manning-led team lost as favorites in the playoffs (often with the best record) doesn't ring true to your theory. And more often than not, it was directly his fault. That Indy defense, which often got so much blame, would show up and then shake their heads when Manning and the offense sputtered in the playoffs.

Manning usually had the better team throughout their careers and won less despite it being so.

Brady's performance past the age of Manning's retirement has nailed the coffin in this debate.