Gretzky isn't the greatest goal scorer?

Discussion in 'By The Numbers' started by squaleca, May 20, 2017.

  1. squaleca Registered User

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    first 10 years didnt count the minus diff between bossy and gretz due to both players missing significant games


    gret had 51 goals bossy had 53 +2 bossy had 2 more goals than wayne
    gret had 55 goals bossy had 69 +14 in favor of bossy
    gret had 92 goals bossy had 51 -42 in favor of wayne
    gret had 71 goals bossy had 68 -3 in favor of wayne
    gret had 87 goals bossy had 64 -23 in favor of wayne
    73 60 -13
    52 51 -1
    62 58 -4
    40 64gp 61
    54 38 63 games played

    only listed 6 years for Mario for obvious reasons
    on a side not gretz 87 goals in 74 games is the highest gpg avg higher than the 92 goal season would have been 94 goals had u avg over 80 games

    Mario had 85 goals in 76 games

    stats show that some what close Wayne Gretzky in his Prime when he wanted to cause his Numbers clearly show later in his career that he didnt care about goal scoring as much that hes the greatest goal scorer in nhl history
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  2. Plural Registered User

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    I literally have no idea what you're saying here.
     
  3. Nino33 Registered User

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    I too have no idea what the OP is saying either...
    I suspect that "goalscorer" connects in some way to sniper? and that's why Bossy is included and Gretzky's results are being questioned?


    I also suspect you never actually watched the players play back in the 70s/80s/90s (I did); Bossy was a great sniper but he wasn't in the same category as Gretzky/Lemieux


    The best player ever and the best playmaker ever were certainly mentioned, but Gretzky was never called the best "goalscorer" (even when he scored 92 goals in a season)
     
  4. Cloned Begging for Bega

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    Gretzky had the deadliest slapshot in the game during his prime.

    Pinpoint accurate along the ice or top shelf. Ridiculous release coming out of a turn or deke. It allowed him to fake out goalies using his slapshot then deke around and slide it in the empty net.
     
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  5. Nino33 Registered User

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    What does this mean?

    Bossy only played 10 years, so it seems to me if you didn't count the first 10 years you wouldn't be counting any of his career in the NHL...

    Bossy only missed 48 games in 10 years
    Gretzky only missed 26 games in his first 10 years
    Neither player missed significant games...



    In ten years Bossy scored 573 goals in 752 games (0.76 goals per game).
    In his first ten years Gretzky scored 637 games in 774 games (0.82 goals per game).
    Gretzky also had 1200 assists during this time, while Bossy had 553.
     
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  6. squaleca Registered User

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    first column is gretzky goals his first 10 years 2nd is bossy 3rd is the plus minus between wayne and mike fourth is mario added that mario was healthy those years cause id figured wed get alot of if Mario argument

    didnt add plus minus differential in the years mike and wayne managed 64 and 63 games in their respective seasons
     
  7. Nino33 Registered User

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    No he didn't HaHa

    Accurate yes, but I recall he was actually thought of as having a very weak slapshot (like they say McDavid's shot is weak)

    Deadliest slapshot in the game during Gretzky's prime...probably Al MacInnis...Doug Wilson's was pretty good...and there are many others that would have been considered above Gretzky (probably a couple/few players on most teams had a better slapshot than Gretzky)
     
  8. BeatenLikeRentedMule Registered User

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    Wrong. Brett Hull had the deadliest slapshot in his prime.
     
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  9. Nino33 Registered User

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    OK (it's confusing as your comment, as shown above, names Gretzky/Bossy but not Lemieux)


    IMO anyone who watched all three players play knows that Gretzky/Lemieux are in a category above Bossy (Bossy was a sniper, and a top all-time sniper but that's it...Gretzky/Lemieux are among the top handful of hockey players of all-time)




    I don't think Brett Hull played in Gretzky's "prime" really, and if so not much

    Hull's first year scoring 40+ goals was 1988-89, when Gretzky was 28 years old/had played a decade in the NHL, and wasn't even on the Oilers anymore

    And I recall Hull used a snapshot mostly, then a wrister, not so much a slapshot (that was his dad HaHa)
     
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  10. NickyFotiu NYR 2017 Cup Champs!

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    Gretz slapshot was underrated in my opinion. It was not even close to one of the hardest. Every team in the NHL probably had guys that could shoot a shapshot harder but Wayne could pick those top corners with amazing ease and consistency. Shooting hard is good but actually scoring is great. Wayne scored with his slapshot.
     
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  11. NickyFotiu NYR 2017 Cup Champs!

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    Bossy was an insane scorer from the day he entered the league. His goal scoring gets so much attention that people underrate his playmaking skills as well. I literally hated the guy for 10 years but now I have the utmost respect for the guy.
     
  12. Jag68Sid87 Forever Phil

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    He said 'deadliest', not hardest. The accuracy made Gretzky's slapper the deadliest. I don't think he is wrong.
     
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  13. LEAFANFORLIFE23 Registered User

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    But he is because he has the most goals ever
     
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  14. JoeCool16 Registered User

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    That's a tricky OP to read, and you even edited it!
    I mean, come on. What is that? I literally have no idea what you're saying.
     
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  15. ijuka Registered User

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    I read the OP 3 times and I still have no idea what it's saying. Could you please post a translation or something?
     
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  16. The Panther Registered User

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    Based on any 10-year prime, or all players' first 10 seasons, Gretzky is probably the greatest goal-scorer in NHL history. (I'm not sure that would apply to playoffs, however -- Maurice Richard would take that.)

    Actually, if you isolate Gretzky and Lemieux's first 10 seasons in the NHL by goals-per-game, they're almost exactly identical, down to the 10th of a percentage if I recall.

    Mike Bossy is considerably behind both of them, but because he retired after his 10th season -- all of his career seasons in a high-scoring era as well -- he ends up 1st all-time in goals-per-game (not counting the 1920s).

    What's sort of most remarkable about Gretzky's peak years, however, is that while he was obliterating Bossy and every other goal-scorer in history (c. 1981 to 1987), he was also the all-time best passer/playmaker in hockey history, if not sports history. Which suggests (as does his 1981-82 season when he started shooting more with Semenko and Lumley on his wings) that he could have scored a lot more goals than he did if he'd been so focused.
     
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  17. sr edler whom

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    Bossy played with Potvin and Trottier on a power house in the high flying 80s. Inflates his numbers. Quite similar to Neely when he played with Bourque and Oates in the almost as high flying early 90s. Doesn't mean he wasn't a great goal scorer, Bossy, he was one of the better ever, but I personally wouldn't rank him over say Bure.
     
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  18. sr edler whom

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    Brett Hull had a great one-timer and a deadly snapshot, that's not a slapshot. A slapshot is when you pretty much raise your stick golf swing style and go down slapping on the puck.
     
  19. carter333167 Registered User

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    Hull had an insanely accurate one time slap shot. Many of his goals were one timer slap shots off of feeds from Adam Oates.
     
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  20. ConorMcGregor Registered User

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    Bure was a cherry picking acceleration machine who excelled at breaking away from the pack in 3 strides. Yes it allowed him to score a lot of electric goals. That doesn't make him a better goal scorer unless you are giving points for flair and showmanship(And in his case, basically leaving his teammates partially shorthanded as he hovered around the blueline looking for a cherry pick breakaway. Playmaking centers like carrying the puck and that would actively work against Bure's style more often than not.

    Look up previous posts on Bossy and his "inflated" numbers and you will find a few posts pointing out that in 1984-85, Trottier was physically not doing well(Some surgery and knee problems) and was pushed down the lineup during recovery(he scored 59 points in 68 games that year). Magically, Defensive center Brent Sutter, who was regularly scoring 40-50 points got put with Bossy that year and low and behold, suddenly scored 100+ points for the only time in his career.

    Bossy was the guy inflating other people's numbers, not vice versa.

    Trottier's numbers before Bossy entered the league were good, but not outstanding. His numbers from the last year of Bossy's career where Bossy was severely crippled and after drop off dramatically.
     
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  21. ConorMcGregor Registered User

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    I think you mean Snapshot.
     
  22. Homesick Registered User

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    Snapshot!!!! He would drop to one knee to get it off as well. I tried it so many times and couldn't figure out the advantage
     
  23. Lord Falstaff Rebooting myself Sponsor

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    it is another thread sayings gretz was not as good as wed believe
     
  24. RedWings51930 Registered User

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    In my humble opinion, no, Gretzky isn't the best goal scorer. To me, Lemieux is.
     
  25. Cloned Begging for Bega

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    No, I mean slapshot.

    Even if you never saw Gretzky live, go watch any of his highlight videos and see how many goals he scores off his slapshot, or off his fake slapshot because the goalie is hyperaware of how accurate it can be.

    I'm not talking about a sneaky slapshot either, although he did have that in his repertoire too. I'm talking times where he completely telegraphs the slapshot and he still beats the goalie clean.

    And while goaltending back then wasn't up to the standard that it is today, not everyone was scoring 70+ goals a year either.

    For any of the younger generation that plays the EA NHL games these days, think of someone that could do the slapshot cheese short AND far side pretty much whenever he wanted to.



    His slapshot at 2:38 is ridiculous. He stops on a dime, turns his body around, winds up and fires a shot with velocity top stick side all in one motion.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2017

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