Greatest Captains List

[timekeep]

I agree with Lemieux to some extent, but I disagree with Gretzky. He had his issues earlier in his career, being called a whiner, etc (not unlike Crosby), and he may not have been a big speech guy and motivator like Messier, but when you see the best player in the league work as hard as he did and have the passion and will to win that he so obviously did, it's hard not to follow his example.

Gretzky also says Lemieux was better than him and Larionov had better on-ice vision... he's very generous in his compliments and generally very humble. A lot of the guys listed above are not the vocal "rah rah" type captains.

Fact is Gretzky was captain for 4 of Edmonton's 5 Cups. Maybe Messier can be the greatest alternative captain of all-time.

Agree with both of you regarding Gretzky. He was the captain and the leader of the team. Messier back then didn't want that sort of responsibility either. Once Gretz was gone he jumped at the opportunity. And the hype in NY was perfect for Messier.

 

[No 19]

Joe Sakic & Steve Yzerman: these are the greatest captians of the modern era of the nhl.

Beliveau is the greatest of all time then Yzerman then Sakic.

 

[JaymzB]

Joe Sakic & Steve Yzerman: these are the greatest captians of all-time IMO

You may want to learn about this guy:

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/LegendsOfHockey/jsp/LegendsMember.jsp?mem=p197201&type=Player&page=bio&list=

 

[Grinder89]

As a hardcore leafs fan I have to say Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark. By no means do I rank them as the top captains of all-time. But for me when I think of leader, I think of those two.

Other names that come to mind are the trypical ones:

Gretzky
Lemieux (played the same day of recieving his last radiation treatment for cancer, how more inspiring could you be)
Sakic
Yzerman
George Armstrong
Jean Beliveau
Messier

A cool fact is that Brian Bellows was the youngest player ever to be captain of an NHL team

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(ice_hockey)

 

[jkrx]

As a hardcore leafs fan I have to say Doug Gilmour and Wendel Clark. By no means do I rank them as the top captains of all-time. But for me when I think of leader, I think of those two.

Other names that come to mind are the trypical ones:

Gretzky
Lemieux (played the same day of recieving his last radiation treatment for cancer, how more inspiring could you be)
Sakic
Yzerman
George Armstrong
Jean Beliveau
Messier

A cool fact is that Brian Bellows was the youngest player ever to be captain of an NHL team

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(ice_hockey)

Didnt Crosby break that or was he just the youngest captain to win the cup?

 

[Lead Role in a Cage]

I would like to know how Henri Richard is viewed in comparison to other former leaders of the Habs?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Howe was an NHL captain for what? A couple of unsuccessful years? Sid Abel, Ted Lindsay, and Alex Delvecchio were all longer serving captains.

I would definitely have Sid Abel on the greatest captains list. Here is my attempt:

1) Jean Beliveau
2) Mark Messier
3) Bobby Clarke
4) Sid Abel
5) Denis Potvin
5) Scott Stevens
6) Steve Yzerman
7) George Armstrong
8) Dit Clapper
9) Joe Sakic
10) Bill Cook
11) Emile "Butch" Bouchard
12) Syl Apps
13) Wayne Gretzky
14) Milt Schmidt
15) Dave Keon
16) Ted Kennedy
17) Toe Blake
18) Ted Lindsay

After that I can't make up my mind, but the following are all options in no particular order:

Alex Delvecchio
Dirk Graham
Ron Francis
Rod Brind'amour
Sylvio Mantha
Babe Seibert
Guy Carbonneau
Newsy Lalonde
Doug Gilmour
Jarome Iginla
Art Coulter
Mario Lemieux
Shane Doan
Nicklas Lidstrom
Henri Richard

Maurice Richard and Yvon Cournoyer were each captains of dynasties, but strangely there isn't much written on their leadership abilities.

I only included NHL captains, otherwise Boris Mikhailov would have a good shot at the top 10.

You seem to have a good gauge on this topic (although I would not consider Gretzky for the list).

Wondering how you would rate Eddie Shore and Phil Esposito?

 

[seventieslord]

Agree with both of you regarding Gretzky. He was the captain and the leader of the team. Messier back then didn't want that sort of responsibility either. .

That's not what the Oilers circa 1985-1988 were saying.

A cool fact is that Brian Bellows was the youngest player ever to be captain of an NHL team

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_(ice_hockey)

What;s interesting about that is that no one really considers Brian Bellows a leader.

 

[Crosbyfan]

This thread screams Bobby Clarke....need a goal he would score it, need a pass he will make it, need a faceoff he will win it, need a hit he will throw it...pure heart and I hate the Flyers

...need a fight he would start it...

 

[Grinder89]

Didnt Crosby break that or was he just the youngest captain to win the cup?

Bellows was 167 days younger then Crosby when he was named captain. Although Bellows was just named an interm captain while Craig Hartsburg recovered from an injury, Crosby was named a permanent captain.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

You seem to have a good gauge on this topic (although I would not consider Gretzky for the list).

Wondering how you would rate Eddie Shore and Phil Esposito?

I rate Gretzky so highly because he was captain of pretty much every team he played on - 4 Cups as Captain of the Oilers and regularly captain of Team Canada. There's the story of how he played so hard for Team Canada that he pissed himself. Lemieux in particular (but other players as well) were in awe of how someone as good as Gretzky still worked so hard.

Espo and Shore are really hard to gauge as leaders. Espo's Bruins went without a captain during their best years. They also underacheived in the playoffs, and Espo admitted partying too much was probably the reason why. On the other hand, Espo was a fantastic leader for Canada in the Summit series. I've read that the Bruins really missed "Terrible" Ted Green's leadership in the early 70s after his injury. I probably should have added Ted Green to the long list of honorable mentions.

I've seen quotes calling Shore a great leader, but on the other hand, his lack of discipline, especially in the playoffs, hurt his team.

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Bob Gainey deserves some consideration. If nothing else he lead by putting in 100% every night (usually while playing through significant injuries) and by the respect he earned from other players.

 

[King Forsberg]

Derian Hatcher Rick Tocchet and Wendel Clark deserve a mention here.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

1. Jean Beliveau
2. Mark Messier
3. Bobby Clarke
4. Steve Yzerman
5. Milt Schmidt
6. Syl Apps
7. Joe Sakic
8. Scott Stevens
9. Denis Potvin
10. George Armstrong
11. Ron Francis

- what did Maurice Richard do to make a top captains list?

- what did Lemieux do other than play awesome hockey? He's not typically regarded as a great leader or the best sportsman/teammate. Good enough to be an NHL captain, sure, but he shouldn't be on people's top-10s either. Same with Gretzky, to a lesser extent.

- Crosby has a definite shot to end up very high on this list.

with gretzky, he wasn't a peel the paint of the walls kind of leader, but his work ethic and commitment to always improving, even when he was the best forward of all time, made him a fantastic captain. all of those great oilers credit him with setting the tone and making them better. mario too in '87.

so, is beliveau the consensus #1 then? he would be my first choice, and seems to be everyone else's too.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Over the last 40 years I would rank them

1. Clarke
2. Potvin
3. Gretzky
4. Stevens
5. Yzerman

 

[VMBM]

And the great Soviet captain of the 70s Boris Mikhailov is equal as a leader in international accomplishments.

I've heard it said, though, that Vladimir Petrov was at least as much of a leader on the Soviet teams as Boris, but since he was a bit of a 'rebel', Mikhailov was a safer choice for the captaincy. However, it is surely funny to watch Mikhailov always complaining to a teammate who made a poor pass or play (especially considering that Mikhailov wasn't the most error-free player himself!).

I think the title for the greatest Soviet captain might go to Slava Fetisov.

 

[CGG]

Messier was an utter failure as a captain in Vancouver and on his second trip through New York, missing the playoffs his last 7 years with some pretty stacked teams. That has to counter a lot of the good accumulated with the 90 Oilers and 94 Rangers. His "guaranteed win" against the Devils gets way blown out of proportion, no one would put Alfredsson near the top of the list for guaranteeing wins.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Messier is the most overrated "leader" in sports.

Gretzky was the leader of the Oilers teams, while he was in Edmonton. You don't have to be a "rah rah" super vocal person to be a great leader.

Once Gretzky left Messier had a few spectacular successes, but far more dismal failures.

89 - loss in round one
90 - Stanley Cup Champ
91 - Lackluster reg. season, but advanced to the Conference finals
92 - President's Cup winners, out in round 2
93 - Missed playoffs, got Neilson fired
94 - Stanley Cup Champ
95 - Out meekly in round 2
96 - Out meekly in round 2
97 - Out meekly in round 2
98 - No playoffs
99 - No playoffs
00 - No playoffs
01 - No playoffs
02 - No playoffs
03 - No playoffs
04 - No playoffs

2 Stanley Cups
0 Finals
1 Conference Finals
4 Second rounds
1 first round
8 missed playoffs

Missed the playoffs half of those years. Refused to adapt his style of game, as he aged.

His reputation as a "leader" was based mostly on one very successful quote (to be fair he delivered in the game ... definitely the 3rd best player on the ice that night and the 5th best of the 94 playoffs), and the N.Y. media.

Great player ?? Absolutely. Borderline top 25 player of all-time. I would take him on my team any day of the week, but he's not a top 10-15 player or the greatest sports leader of all-time like many try to have you believe.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Messier is the most overrated "leader" in sports.

Gretzky was the leader of the Oilers teams, while he was in Edmonton. You don't have to be a "rah rah" super vocal person to be a great leader.

Once Gretzky left Messier had a few spectacular successes, but far more dismal failures.

89 - loss in round one
90 - Stanley Cup Champ
91 - Lackluster reg. season, but advanced to the Conference finals
92 - President's Cup winners, out in round 2
93 - Missed playoffs, got Neilson fired
94 - Stanley Cup Champ
95 - Out meekly in round 2
96 - Out meekly in round 2
97 - Out meekly in round 2
98 - No playoffs
99 - No playoffs
00 - No playoffs
01 - No playoffs
02 - No playoffs
03 - No playoffs
04 - No playoffs

In 1995, the 8th seeded Rangers upset the top seeded Nordiques before bowing out in the 2nd round.
In 1996, you are right, nothing impressive.
In 1997, however, the Rangers made a cindarella run to the Conference finals. Messier was a huge part of that run - especially when the Rangers upset the Devils in the 2nd round.

Missed the playoffs half of those years. Refused to adapt his style of game, as he aged.

He was 37 by the time he started missing the playoffs. By that point his ego was inflated and his play was declining.

Basically, until Messier left the Rangers after 96-97, he was a great captain. I'm not sure what happened after that. My theory is that he had spent almost 2 decades playing for great teams and had no idea how to captain a team that was relatively poor. That combined with his declining play (and ego that was as big as ever) led to teh debacle that was his time in Vancouver.

 

[VanIslander]

Pull out any stat you want but the Oilers I watched throughout the eighties and early nineties didn't have a bigger leader than Messier.

I totally agree that he wasn't the same in the Dead Puck Era (it was his 15th bloody season when he won the cup in '94 so judging his leadership based on what he did AFTER that is almost ludicrous!).

 

[seventieslord]

Pull out any stat you want but the Oilers I watched throughout the eighties and early nineties didn't have a bigger leader than Messier.

Fully agree. And that's what the Oilers said back then, too.

I agree that Messier can be overrated if you believe he's "the best leader in hockey history and it isn't close!" or "the greatest leader in pro sports"... but 2nd/3rd all-time specifically in hockey, that's fair.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Pull out any stat you want but the Oilers I watched throughout the eighties and early nineties didn't have a bigger leader than Messier.

I totally agree that he wasn't the same in the Dead Puck Era (it was his 15th bloody season when he won the cup in '94 so judging his leadership based on what he did AFTER that is almost ludicrous!).

Looks like there are a few different views of what leadership is.

But I agree with you, Messier was the leader of that team, not Gretzky.

 

[Leafs Forever]

Howe was an NHL captain for what? A couple of unsuccessful years? Sid Abel, Ted Lindsay, and Alex Delvecchio were all longer serving captains.

I would definitely have Sid Abel on the greatest captains list. Here is my attempt:

1) Jean Beliveau
2) Mark Messier
3) Bobby Clarke
4) Sid Abel
5) Denis Potvin
5) Scott Stevens
6) Steve Yzerman
7) George Armstrong
8) Dit Clapper
9) Joe Sakic
10) Bill Cook
11) Emile "Butch" Bouchard
12) Syl Apps
13) Wayne Gretzky
14) Milt Schmidt
15) Dave Keon
16) Ted Kennedy
17) Toe Blake
18) Ted Lindsay

After that I can't make up my mind, but the following are all options in no particular order:

Alex Delvecchio
Dirk Graham
Ron Francis
Rod Brind'amour
Sylvio Mantha
Babe Seibert
Guy Carbonneau
Newsy Lalonde
Doug Gilmour
Jarome Iginla
Art Coulter
Mario Lemieux
Shane Doan
Nicklas Lidstrom
Henri Richard

Maurice Richard and Yvon Cournoyer were each captains of dynasties, but strangely there isn't much written on their leadership abilities.

I only included NHL captains, otherwise Boris Mikhailov would have a good shot at the top 10.

Was Bill Cook that great a captain? I haven't seen much specifically written about his leadership, though perhaps I missed it. I'm interrested as I've got him in the ATD.

 

[Grabovski]

I will only include players I have seen since it is unfair to try compare a Richard to Yzerman when I saw Yzerman and know his leadership skills and would only be guessing about Richard. My list will be from the last 17 years starting from when I was old enough to remember watching hockey.

My top 20:

1) Sakic
2) Yzerman
3) Gretzky
4) Mario
5) Messier
6) Stevens
7) Lindstrom
8) Niedmayer
9) Iginla
10) Gilmour
11) Koivu
12) Crosby
13) Toews
14) Doan
15) Mike Richards
16) Linden
17) Alfredsson
18) Sundin
19) Rod Brindamore
20) Lindross

Alot of players on that list are still playing or just retired. Which I doubt a lot of them would be on there. Like Toews, Doan and Richards?

 

[RabbinsDuck]

Looks like there are a few different views of what leadership is.

But I agree with you, Messier was the leader of that team, not Gretzky.

The Oilers were Gretzky's team and no one else. One of the hardest working and most competitive players who year-in and year-out got the most from his teams. Only 4 years in his entire career, most of which he was a captain, did he not get his team to the playoffs - and many of them after Edmonton over-achieved to do so.

If you include Yzerman and Sakic, even Beliveau, in your list you agree you do not need to be an in your face type of leader to be an effective captain.