Grade the Trade Deadline

[Spirit of Lindgren]

Now that the deadline has come and gone, Verby won't have to give 100%.
He can just "switch to glide" and see this year out.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Now that the deadline has come and gone, Verby won't have to give 100%.
He can just "switch to glide" and see this year out.

Besides the fact that he's a professional, and a true professional would not do that, if he's planning on playing in the NHL next year he has every reason to play well the remaining 5 weeks.

 

[Matias Maccete]

Stolen shamelessly from another thread:

Pierre LeBrun: I was surprised at how low the prices plummeted on nearly everyone when you consider people feel the 2017 draft class isn't very strong. A sixth-rounder for Drew Stafford? No one wanted to meet the Arizona Coyotes' price on Radim Vrbata, so he didn't even move? Nobody offered a bag of pucks for Buffalo Sabres defenseman Dmitry Kulikov? Holy mama, not a day to be selling. I can't remember the market ever being this picky in my 22 years covering the NHL.

 

[rt]

He's probably not counting the Hanzal deal in his comment since it didn't happen at the exact deadline, and given that half the hockey world can't figure out why we didn't deal Vrbata for ANYTHING (some of the sentiments I've read believe we should have dumped him at all costs just because he's UFA) he's not a lone loony crying in the woods.

Pierre's assessment is based more on video game logic than real life, though. Plus, he's something of a dink, so I think we all can be safe in ignoring him.



I don't honestly think Tippett had the final say on this. I think Chayka weighed the offers and believed that Vrbata on the team was worth more in terms of the room and of his chances to get a good deal in UFA bringing him back than a desultory draft pick. I also have it in the back of my mind that Chayka might not want other GMs to believe that he'd make a deal simply to make a deal - he's already considered something of a mark, so sticking to his guns on Vrbata could be a statement move from him.

Great post. My stance has softened significantly in the last 20hrs

 

[Grimes]

Would much rather keep Vrbata than get another 3rd. And from Ultra Mega Chickens' Lebrun quote it sounds like the report of nobody matching a 2nd is accurate.

It also sounds like dealing Stone early for a 3rd and the Hanzal return would have been much lower if Chayka waited. Good on him getting those two done early. It was an underwhelming draft day in general, so now that the dust has settled I'm happy with the returns we did get.

Time to draft well and use the extra picks to get some center depth next year. Keeping Crouse up and losing both of those picks is going to haunt me though...

 

[Nalens Oga]

Doan and Vrbata couldn't be moved because of certain reaons. Stone and Hanzal were moved for decent returns, expansion complicates certain things for moving the rest. Some other teams barely got anything, it's not an ideal situation but can't complain either.

 

[Murf]

I'm pretty pleased with the Hanzal return. Stone, meh ok. I go back and forth on the Vrbata no-trade, but I guess it's ok. Vrbata didn't want to go, and the return was going to be low, so the kid earned some goodwill with Vrbata and some respect around the league. It's less tangible than a third rounder, but I'm not a huge fan of 3+'s anyway.

 

[kbay]

Still ticked off about losing White.

 

[Plub]

It's not a Hanzal return... it's Hanzal and White. Hope we can get one or both back.

 

[zerekstar]

White was a gift. He had really upped his game recently so I was also pretty disappointed with that. But overall we did pretty decent on that trade particularly if they return.

 

[Jakey53]

Stolen shamelessly from another thread:

Boy, do I second that.

 

[cobra427]

White was a gift. He had really upped his game recently so I was also pretty disappointed with that. But overall we did pretty decent on that trade particularly if they return.

I agree the returns were fine. But the returns are highly unlikely to amount to anything. Yes, they have more assets as trade chips but they just aren't worth much in a trade. We traded a 2C having a great year and a 4th liner having a great year, but agin not much of a return. It is just the market for rentals.

Now we have a team that is mailing it in the rest of the way. You can see it in OEL/Gogo for sure the last few games. They know that management has given up this year. This has destroyed team chemistry for a team that was playing much better. The rest of the way, it is difficult to evaluate players under this scenario and I think the team takes a step back because their is nothing to build on now for next year.

At the start of next year, a switch isn't magically going to turn on and make the team better. I think we would have been better off for next year by keeping Hanzal/White, that way the team stays competitive the rest of the year so we can build on it next year. Basically, I would give up the picks that are likely worthless for a better culture and winning attitude the rest of the way.

Players want to win, management gave up on them, again. This has long term effects on players and culture that are hard to change. It is a pipe dream that we are going to trade for or sign significant help like Shatty/Trouba/Hamilton, or trade for a 1C next year. The Oilers got lucky with Mcdavid, and traded their best player for a barley top line D in Larson, which is why they turned it around this year. Our best young player (Domi) wouldn't come close to getting us Trouba in a trade.

 

[Jakey53]

I agree the returns were fine. But the returns are highly unlikely to amount to anything. Yes, they have more assets as trade chips but they just aren't worth much in a trade. We traded a 2C having a great year and a 4th liner having a great year, but agin not much of a return. It is just the market for rentals.

Now we have a team that is mailing it in the rest of the way. You can see it in OEL/Gogo for sure the last few games. They know that management has given up this year. This has destroyed team chemistry for a team that was playing much better. The rest of the way, it is difficult to evaluate players under this scenario and I think the team takes a step back because their is nothing to build on now for next year.

At the start of next year, a switch isn't magically going to turn on and make the team better. I think we would have been better off for next year by keeping Hanzal/White, that way the team stays competitive the rest of the year so we can build on it next year. Basically, I would give up the picks that are likely worthless for a better culture and winning attitude the rest of the way.

Players want to win, management gave up on them, again. This has long term effects on players and culture that are hard to change. It is a pipe dream that we are going to trade for or sign significant help like Shatty/Trouba/Hamilton, or trade for a 1C next year. The Oilers got lucky with Mcdavid, and traded their best player for a barley top line D in Larson, which is why they turned it around this year. Our best young player (Domi) wouldn't come close to getting us Trouba in a trade.

I agree with what you are saying, but we do not have inside information on what Hanzal wants. I think Hanzal asked for more that 5 mil a year for 5 or 6 yrs. from the Yotes, and when he didn't get it he decided to test UFA, which I would also if put in the same situation. Other teams know of Hanzal's history with injuries, and that is why games played was part of the trade. With the cap staying the same, Hanzal and others may be in for a surprise this summer. On another note, IF this team was a contender, I doubt Hanzal would have been traded, but in our situation, it made sense to trade him for assets.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Still ticked off about losing White.

#HawtTaek: I would rather have White back next season than Hanzal.

 

[Mosby]

^ Same.

 

[avco]

I agree with what you are saying, but we do not have inside information on what Hanzal wants. I think Hanzal asked for more that 5 mil a year for 5 or 6 yrs. from the Yotes, and when he didn't get it he decided to test UFA, which I would also if put in the same situation. Other teams know of Hanzal's history with injuries, and that is why games played was part of the trade. With the cap staying the same, Hanzal and others may be in for a surprise this summer. On another note, IF this team was a contender, I doubt Hanzal would have been traded, but in our situation, it made sense to trade him for assets.

Reading your comment I am having problems which statement resembles fact and which one resembles fact news:

a. we do not have inside information on what Hanzal wants

b. Hanzal asked for more that 5 mil a year for 5 or 6 yrs. from the Yotes, and when he didn't get it he decided to test UFA.

Care to elaborate.

 

[zerekstar]

The Coyotes have a pretty good scouting staff so they may be able to turn it all into something good. They might see something everyone else is missing and knock one out of the park. I know the word is that this is a weak draft but there are going to be good players that come out of it regardless and it is up to the scouts to find the gems and make them property of the Coyotes. They can do it.

 

[Murf]

Replacing Hanzal is going to be harder than replacing White. Hanzal may not have been a true #1 center, and his injuries are well documented - but he played the position. You could write his name in pen. Now they will be using a lot more pencils.

If not White himself, there will be other White's out there. They might only be 90% White, or 80%, but they will show up for less than $1m and be thrilled to have the job. Pulling a top line center is going to be a bidding war in the UFA market, a blockbuster trade, or is going to take patience and luck in the prospect pool.

I would be happy if both returned, and luck also smiled on this team for once by having a player arrive that pushes Hanzal down the depth chart.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

If not White himself, there will be other White's out there. They might only be 90% White, or 80%, but they will show up for less than $1m and be thrilled to have the job. Pulling a top line center is going to be a bidding war in the UFA market, a blockbuster trade, or is going to take patience and luck in the prospect pool.

Two responses. First, the Coyotes have been looking for a guy like White the whole time I've been a fan of the franchise. From Josh Gratton to Dan Carcillo to Raffi Torres, they've failed to get a guy with sand, who can agitate smartly, who also had a scoring touch. Oh, and White could play all three forward positions, too. To me, that type of player is rare. Yes, you can get an 80% White out there, but our franchise has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that all you get from 80% of a good player is a team sucking.

Second, we're not going to get any UFA top line centers. The only shot at one beyond developing one ourselves is through a blockbuster trade. We can't afford Hanzal, much less a bonafide 1/2C, on the open market. The premium their agents will ask for to compensate for our lousy arena situation and looming relocation fears will kill the market for us.

 

[Jakey53]

Reading your comment I am having problems which statement resembles fact and which one resembles fact news:

a. we do not have inside information on what Hanzal wants

b. Hanzal asked for more that 5 mil a year for 5 or 6 yrs. from the Yotes, and when he didn't get it he decided to test UFA.

Care to elaborate.

I don't think b has been proven. I have not seen or heard of any figures from Hanzal or his agent.

 

[kbay]

Two responses. First, the Coyotes have been looking for a guy like White the whole time I've been a fan of the franchise. From Josh Gratton to Dan Carcillo to Raffi Torres, they've failed to get a guy with sand, who can agitate smartly, who also had a scoring touch. Oh, and White could play all three forward positions, too. To me, that type of player is rare. Yes, you can get an 80% White out there, but our franchise has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that all you get from 80% of a good player is a team sucking.

Second, we're not going to get any UFA top line centers. The only shot at one beyond developing one ourselves is through a blockbuster trade. We can't afford Hanzal, much less a bonafide 1/2C, on the open market. The premium their agents will ask for to compensate for our lousy arena situation and looming relocation fears will kill the market for us.

We need him back before Hanzal. Huge White fan and those players that play with that much heart when the rest of them was phoning it in don't come around that often.

 

[Matias Maccete]

I feel like we're forgetting how crappy white was early this season. I'd still welcome him back, but it's not like he was as good as we was recently all year. He's a good 4th liner, a really really good 4th liner, but him over Hanzal?

 

[Murf]

This team hasn't iced a legit first and second line, in what 15+ years? And all the hand-wringing over a fourth liner?

 

[Hinterland]

Still pissed about the Stone deal. Just about any defender dealt brought in more than a 3rd. And Stone is far from being the worst of them. Brendan Smith hasn't been 100% healthy almost two seasons now...and has played some absolute crap games lately. Yet the Rangers still paid a 2nd and 3rd for him. We didn't even get half of that for Stone. Complete joke...

 

[CC96]

This team hasn't iced a legit first and second line, in what 15+ years? And all the hand-wringing over a fourth liner?

Pretty much how I see it too.