grabo and kule

[happyaccident]

I think Macarthur was probably the best player on the KGM line, in retrospect, I would have let Kule and Grabovski go before Mac.

He was a good player, and if you have time to kill, if you go to youtube, search for Kule's 30 goal season, you will see it had a lot more to do with Macarthur than his other line mate.

I've seen it 100 times. I'm not saying MacArthur is a premier playmaker but he's a good one and I'm sure Kyke Turris enjoys playing next to him. He's not the kind of player that a talent-short team should just be discarding but as we all know, Randy's doghouse doesn't have an exit door.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Hanging onto the puck too long would deflate your possession numbers.

His otherwise ridiculous statement is correct in a sense - Grabovski's ability to hold the puck and gain the offensive zone is part of what makes him an effective player in terms of possession and in general. Not many players in the NHL are capable of carrying it in regularly like he is (see this article, although I'm simplifying the conclusions somewhat). And if he dumps it in he's an effective forechecker too.

Grabovski is a shoot-first center with a never-say-die style of play and Kulemin is a Mack truck on skates with stone hands but a hard shot if given the space to release. Both are responsible defensively. They'll provide more than they'll surrender.

Kulemin doesn't have stone hands. His wristshot is reasonably accurate. It's the slow release that keeps him from scoring more, along with zero PP time, lots of defensive starts and crappy linemates in the last couple of seasons.

 

[yubbers]

You overpayed significantly for both. Especially kulemin.

 

[The Legend]

Hanging onto the puck too long would deflate your possession numbers.

No it wouldn't

 

[Territory]

They will help to make the islanders not give a lottery pick to Buffalo.

Probably won't help them make the playoffs though.

 

[GalacticaActual]

Expect 25-25 out of Grabo while driving possession and 15-20g, 20a out of Kulemin while probably being your best defensive forwards after Nielsen. I'm rooting for them, i really am. So stupid we don't have both anymore.

2011-2012 Maple Leafs 70 7 21 28 2 6 1 0 1 107 6.5
2012-2013 Maple Leafs 48 7 16 23 -5 22 0 0 0 72 9.7
2012-2013 Metallurg Magnitogorsk-KHL 36 14 24 38 26
2013-2014 Maple Leafs 70 9 11 20 -4 24 0 0 4 81 11.1

For god's sake!!!!

2011-2012: 70 GP, 7 goals, 21 assists, 28 points
2012-2013: 48 GP, 7 goals, 16 assists, 23 points
2013-2014: 70 GP, 9 goals, 11 assists, 20 points

You want to pay $4 million + for this kind of player? And you are telling the Islander fan to expect 20 goals and 20 assists per season?

 

[diceman934]

Kulemin is an unsung guy, expect 15-20 goals by him, and strong 2 way play. He is not a 30 goal guy, so his contract is a bit on the overpaid side. But he is a guy that is some quality if you accept his limitations.

Grabovski is a smallish player that will aways leave you asking why he only averages 48 points per season as a pro.

He has good skills for a small guy, but his hockey IQ leaves him struggling to use his teammates to the elite level. His career high in assists is only 29, so don't expect him to make his teammates better. He will either make you happy or he will leave you wanting to tear your hair out. He had a Love/hate relationship on this board.

Funny that the highest Bozak has had is 30 and that is my same argument about him.....he adds nothing to his line.

Grabo I was not among his fans, tough, but not very bright. Kulie will have a very good year and will surprise a lot of people.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Funny that the highest Bozak has had is 30 and that is my same argument about him.....he adds nothing to his line.

Grabo I was not among his fans, tough, but not very bright. Kulie will have a very good year and will surprise a lot of people.

You can same the same thing for Kadri and he had the highest offensive zone starts on the Leafs.

I agree what you said about Grabovski though.

 

[Fogelhund]

The problem I always had with Grabovski, is his tendency to skate around with his head down, and get leveled pretty regularly. Sooner or later this is going to catch up with him, and he is going to miss significant time. He is a tireless worker though, so the effort will always be there. He was very effective last year in the first half for Washington, but didn't get much done in the second half of the season.

As others have suggested, Kulemin is good defensively, but since the Lokomotiv plane crash hasn't done anything offensively... not sure why. He did show as though he could be a very good second liner, but that just fizzled. He was one of my favourite Leafs the first few seasons, but I wouldn't have brought him back at the cap hit he has.

 

[Ace88*]

2011-2012 Maple Leafs 70 7 21 28 2 6 1 0 1 107 6.5
2012-2013 Maple Leafs 48 7 16 23 -5 22 0 0 0 72 9.7
2012-2013 Metallurg Magnitogorsk-KHL 36 14 24 38 26
2013-2014 Maple Leafs 70 9 11 20 -4 24 0 0 4 81 11.1

For god's sake!!!!

2011-2012: 70 GP, 7 goals, 21 assists, 28 points
2012-2013: 48 GP, 7 goals, 16 assists, 23 points
2013-2014: 70 GP, 9 goals, 11 assists, 20 points

You want to pay $4 million + for this kind of player? And you are telling the Islander fan to expect 20 goals and 20 assists per season?

No, i dont want to pay Kulie $4 million a year, that doesn't mean i can't wish the guy was still on the team. And yes, considering the Islanders play a more cohesive offensive game, 40 points out of kulemin isn't unreasonable. He will probably play the 2nd line with Grabo while Tavares and Nielsen get the harder minutes.

 

[Al14]

Grabovski and Kulemin are no longer Leafs! Grabo has been gone since before last season.

Why are we allowing this thread to remain open?

I've seen so many 'Leaf' topic threads closed, or merged with other threads, before I had a chance to comment, and this thread is allowed to stay open.

Just saying.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

I'd rather Booth at 1.1 mill than Kulemin at 4.1 mill thats for sure!

Recently, he spent time with a skating coach which seems to have helped his game. He's strong and can power his way to the net with the puck. If he can stay healthy and motivated, he might help the Leafs. I'd say, at $1.1 million, it's worth the risk.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I'd rather Booth at 1.1 mill than Kulemin at 4.1 mill thats for sure!

Recently, he spent time with a skating coach which seems to have helped his game. He's strong and can power his way to the net with the puck. If he can stay healthy and motivated, he might help the Leafs. I'd say, at $1.1 million, it's worth the risk.

David Booth isn't a strong puck retriever like Nikolai Kulemin, but Matt Frattin is that guy. He protects the puck well, can retrieve and is going to help keep the puck on Kadri's stick. Booth, on the other hand, is the speedy winger who will finish around the critical scoring areas.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Heard Capuano on radio yesterday, say Grabovski may be used as a winger, which I always thought was an option for this player. Seems like Frans Nielson will be the #2C next year, which would leave Strome/Bailey fighting it out for the #3C.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

David Booth isn't a strong puck retriever like Nikolai Kulemin, but Matt Frattin is that guy. He protects the puck well, can retrieve and is going to help keep the puck on Kadri's stick. Booth, on the other hand, is the speedy winger who will finish around the critical scoring areas.

I think Booth might click well with a guy like Kadri. He's a speedy player but seems to have lost his finish over the past few years. Anything over fifteen goals from him would be great, really.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think they are both overpaid for what they bring, but they will really shore up the NYI depth.

Kulemin is a player I love but offense has really dropped off so it is really hard to pay for strictly great defense. I think he is capable of potting 20ish if he actually shoots the puck.

Grabovski is fast and flashy, he looks like he's always trying but I can not forget the Boston Bruins series, the guy looked like he was trying hard, skating hard, getting hit multiple times but kept getting up. I also can't forget that it seemed like he was on the ice whenever we were scored on.

 

[ULF_55]

Islanders fan coming in peace. Always liked the leafs and I remember these two being great together. Just curious what you all may think of tje reunion of the two players on the isles second line (most likely paired with strome) thanks for the imput guys

They will be interesting to watch.

They won't cheat you on effort.

They've never played behind a center like Tavares so it will be interesting to see if Grabovski gets more space.

They can be 2/3 of a 2nd. or 3rd. line depending on the coach, makes it easy on the GM. Kulemin can play any line, left or right, likely could have been a center.

No reason the Islanders can't be in the playoffs this year with a healthy JT.

 

[613Leafer]

The problem with Grabovski in Toronto was that he was one of three 2nd line Cs (Bozak/Kadri/Grabo), and ultimately we didn't have a 1st line C so our C position wasn't (and still isn't) good enough. We'd be just as good/bad if you swapped Grabovski for Kadri right now (assuming no further growth from Kadri).

Tavares-Grabovski as a top 6 C duo looks MUCH better then Bozak-Grabovski.

Are these guys GREAT 2nd line players? No. This isn't a Krejci, Kesler, etc type of 2nd line C. But they can be serviceable 2nd liners, especially with a good 1st line in front of them, and hopefully a highly skilled linemate (Strome?) to help them out offensively. Kulemin needs to refind that scoring touch though, which is no guarantee. But I think a change in teams/situation could give him the fresh start he needs.

 

[Kelly]

Grabovski and Kulemin are no longer Leafs! Grabo has been gone since before last season.

Why are we allowing this thread to remain open?

I've seen so many 'Leaf' topic threads closed, or merged with other threads, before I had a chance to comment, and this thread is allowed to stay open.

Just saying.

Who cares.

Move on with life.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

The problem with Grabovski in Toronto was that he was one of three 2nd line Cs (Bozak/Kadri/Grabo), and ultimately we didn't have a 1st line C so our C position wasn't (and still isn't) good enough. We'd be just as good/bad if you swapped Grabovski for Kadri right now (assuming no further growth from Kadri).

Tavares-Grabovski as a top 6 C duo looks MUCH better then Bozak-Grabovski.

Are these guys GREAT 2nd line players? No. This isn't a Krejci, Kesler, etc type of 2nd line C. But they can be serviceable 2nd liners, especially with a good 1st line in front of them, and hopefully a highly skilled linemate (Strome?) to help them out offensively. Kulemin needs to refind that scoring touch though, which is no guarantee. But I think a change in teams/situation could give him the fresh start he needs.

Capuano hinted he may even play Grabovski with JT next year on the wing, Nilsson, Bailey, Strome, Isles do have players capable of playing C.

If this happens, Grabovski hit the jackpot, having one of the best Centers in hockey set him up, he's not much of a playmaker, and he lacks vision, but he can finish with some ability, so this one may be interesting to watch if Capuano was serious.

 

[Deadweight]

The problem with Grabovski in Toronto was that he was one of three 2nd line Cs (Bozak/Kadri/Grabo), and ultimately we didn't have a 1st line C so our C position wasn't (and still isn't) good enough. We'd be just as good/bad if you swapped Grabovski for Kadri right now (assuming no further growth from Kadri).

Tavares-Grabovski as a top 6 C duo looks MUCH better then Bozak-Grabovski.

Are these guys GREAT 2nd line players? No. This isn't a Krejci, Kesler, etc type of 2nd line C. But they can be serviceable 2nd liners, especially with a good 1st line in front of them, and hopefully a highly skilled linemate (Strome?) to help them out offensively. Kulemin needs to refind that scoring touch though, which is no guarantee. But I think a change in teams/situation could give him the fresh start he needs.

I think there is no better fit for those two if they are on the same line than Strome. Watching Strome this last year his vision of the ice is rediculous. Needs work along the boards if hes going to stay at wing tho. If kule can get his game back that could be a second line made in heaven. finally something to look foward to as an isles fan other than prospects and future

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

His otherwise ridiculous statement is correct in a sense - Grabovski's ability to hold the puck and gain the offensive zone is part of what makes him an effective player in terms of possession and in general. Not many players in the NHL are capable of carrying it in regularly like he is (see this article, although I'm simplifying the conclusions somewhat). And if he dumps it in he's an effective forechecker too.



Kulemin doesn't have stone hands. His wristshot is reasonably accurate. It's the slow release that keeps him from scoring more, along with zero PP time, lots of defensive starts and crappy linemates in the last couple of seasons.

Stone hands with respect to stick-handling and handling passes. He has a hard shot but it takes a while for him to release it as a result of said stone hands. When he scored 30 it was Grabovski entering the zone, getting a shot on net and Kulemin cleaning up near the goalie.

 

[Hockey Talker29]

You overpayed significantly for both. Especially kulemin.

I'm curious, do you think the Leafs overpaid for Komarov then?

I don't understand letting Kulemin walk, while spending $1m less to sign Komarov.

I really like Leo, but I think we'd have been better served keeping Kulemin at $4m x 4 years.

 

[rdawg1234]

They will be interesting to watch.



No reason the Islanders can't be in the playoffs this year with a healthy JT.

I know a reason, it's a word called Defence!

They have zero defensive ability this year, lots of prospects, but zero defence on paper. And Halak is not an all-star goalie, he's an average starter.

they look to be a 11th-7th place team. We look to be a 10th-4th place team IMO depending on if this depth in our offence pans out(I.e Santo, Kontiola, Booth all play like they can)

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think there is no better fit for those two if they are on the same line than Strome. Watching Strome this last year his vision of the ice is rediculous. Needs work along the boards if hes going to stay at wing tho. If kule can get his game back that could be a second line made in heaven. finally something to look foward to as an isles fan other than prospects and future

I would happily trade Kadri for Strome if Snow would bite. Was always was high on Strome, if NY Isles play their cards right, they may have a great 1-2 with JT and Strome for years to come.