Speculation: Gostisbehere placed on waivers by Philly

[Avery Rule]

I imagine we make a trade for him with retention... or at least i hope... i can dream cant I?

 

[Winger98]

Until guys like Seider and Raymond are making an impact in Detroit and the addition of big name free agents actually has a positive impact.

The difference here is that you view what's happening as kicking the can down the road, and if that's how you view it, the rest of your post makes sense. But I see things playing out pretty much, on a macro level at least, as I expected. The rebuild was always going to take a long time. They always do, but this one was going to take even longer because of how much the previous GM handcuffed the organization (in terms of a rebuild). This rebuild A) started later than it should have, and B) was knee-capped when it did start because of decisions made related to part A.

Detroit's rebuild only truly started less than 2 years ago. With the hiring of Yzerman. Consider the big picture and keep that in mind. We're still in the early stages of it. I'd guess about 33% of the way. Rebuilds require patience, something that most fans are in critically short supply of, by their very nature. So it's no surprise the amount of hand-wringing over this. I get the frustration, truly, but buckle up, because there's a long way to go.

I agree. The incremental improvements so far have been shedding, or letting run out, the horrible contracts on this roster (which is still happening), to maximize cap flexibility. Additionally, taking low risk gambles that can pay off, like the Fabbri trade. And drafting high and in quantity for several years, banking on an infusion of young talent, led by players like Seider.

Those items take a while to play out, and it's not until they all do that it makes sense to add additional pieces with big contracts and starting to make your push. This team is not positioned yet to make that push. This team is going to suck for a while yet, and it's going to feel like the incremental improvements are not happening due to the on-ice product still being shit. But they are happening. Adding big name free agents this summer just doesn't make sense.

so the Wings weren't rebuilding when they picked 9th (Ras) and 6th (zadina)? Dealing Tatar and Nyquist weren't rebuilding moves? We made 28 picks over the last three drafts Holland was here for and dealt numerous players for picks in that time, shedding talent. We're four years into a rebuild. The fact Yzerman seems to have decided to scrap everything and start from scratch doesn't change that.

 

[Henkka]

I’m sorry, some of you guys have lost your minds, it’s not a big deal

Yes I might have taken a shot but I understand why they didn’t.... no else claimed him, that makes you think

There's something wrong on the player.

Simple as that.

Our hopes in here are "grass is always greener" -effect.

 

[Tetsuo]

Sadly this cemented my belief that Yzerman was forced to buyout Abdelkader's contract just to do that. Which explains that dumbass decision as well when we kept saying staple him to the taxi squad and keep more flexibility moving forward. I don't like the signs and frankly I don't like what I am hearing from people I trust around the team either so yeah I am getting more concerned.

This tank plan isn't as fool proof as some are peddling either at this point.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is an internal cap for most teams, given the extreme lack of gate revenue and that may have played a roll in all of this, but I disagree heavily with the notion that buying out Abdelkader reduces our flexibility. Abby will count for less than 3% of the cap during the 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons, which for a team that will almost certainly be far removed from contention, is an absolute pittance. If anything, it gives us more cap room in those years than if we had not bought him out. Further, it takes yet another contract off the books, so we will have yet more room to sign prospects/Free Agents in those years too. The Abdelkader buyout was a win from literally every angle when you also consider the optics of letting an overpaid, underachieving player go, in order to send a message both to media and the locker room that no one, even someone as established as Abby, is liable to stick around.

 

[MBH]

Looking closer at the stats..
Gost has a 3.3 GAA - 3rd worst on his team. He also has a 3.0 GFA
Gost has the second best GF% on the team... but get benched by Blash for not playing brain-dead, low-event hockey.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I'm usually someone who harps on the fact that you're rarely going to add a valuable asset through waivers.

This was a legitimately good player in a position of need at a price we could comfortably afford and still have plenty of cap. He's hardly older than Mantha and Bertuzzi. It's as close as you can realistically get to the dream waiver option, and we didn't pull the trigger.

I really just don't see how Ghost wouldn't make us better in the short and medium term, and passing on him is concerning to me.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Context matters man.

For starters only 4 or 5 teams have the cap space to take him on.

This was false. CapFriendly pointed out that any team with enough "projected" cap space to absorb the remaining $1.525M of SG's cap hit for the rest of the year could claim him, as well as any team with enough LTIR relief room to fit his entire $4.5M cap hit. I think the number came to like 19 teams, and there were also a couple who were close enough to where if they hypothetically put in a claim, just dropping a guy back down to the TS would make them compliant.

 

[SirloinUB]

This was false. CapFriendly pointed out that any team with enough "projected" cap space to absorb the remaining $1.525M of SG's cap hit for the rest of the year could claim him, as well as any team with enough LTIR relief room to fit his entire $4.5M cap hit. I think the number came to like 19 teams, and there were also a couple who were close enough to where if they hypothetically put in a claim, just dropping a guy back down to the TS would make them compliant.

Fair point but they also need to be able to fit him in their cap structure for the next 2 years so the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Either way, “other teams didn’t claim him either” isn’t much of a justification for this lousy team sitting on their hands.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Another sign that Yzerman has no interest in making this team better. Tank a minimum 1 more year is the plan..

 

[jaster]

I guess as far as your last sentence goes, what's the harm?

Well, let's tease this out a little more. When I say "big name free agents," what I have in mind is someone at their peak or, most likely, just past it. Guys who will command big money and likely have years at the end of their term that will be high risk, due to their age and higher likelihood of not being worth the cap hit by that point. And that's why I'm saying they are a bit risky right now. Signing them too early leaves you with those later years on the contract when the team is actually within its competitive window, but now your big UFA is no longer providing max value, which could be a handcuff.

On the other hand, if we run into a free agent who is maybe on the younger side, or not as prohibitively expensive, he may be worth signing. That would be an individual, case-by-case situation. I'm just looking at it more from the angle of the prototypical big name UFAs who are typically kind of the final pieces on a competing team.

Even if we pursued all the big free agents every summer, odds are most don't want to come here. But if we were able to add 1 this year, 1 next year, and then 3 years from now some of these kids are ready to hit their stride... aren't we in a better spot than if we just sit on our hands for 3 years and wait for Raymond, Seider to arrive and THEN go after free agents/pick ups? What if no one good is hitting the market that year we are ready to compete? Or what if they aren't interested in us?

I think we should be taking the chances we have to improve this team when they are there.

Ultimately, if we're talking about eventually adding multiple big name free agents, they will indeed need to be spaced out, as you suggest. I'm just not of the belief that we are close enough to that competitive window to begin that sequence of adding them. Again, with certain exceptions maybe. Now, I also agree that we shouldn't be sitting on our hands. I think, right now, we should continue to make those low-risk moves and attempting to acquire more Robby Fabbris. And that's where I think the strongest argument lies for claiming Gostisbehere. I didn't offer a strong opinion on that topic because I honestly haven't watched the guy lately, and so I don't know where his value currently lies between his high offensive ability and his high-event, low-quality defensive downside. It seemed like maybe he would have fit the bill, but I just don't know.

 

[Shaman464]

Another sign that Yzerman has no interest in making this team better. Tank a minimum 1 more year is the plan..

What does being a slightly better losing team actually gain them? A slimmer chance at a core piece and more time in the cellar. I trust Yzerman. If he passed on Ghost, there was a reason. Steady on.

 

[jaster]

so the Wings weren't rebuilding when they picked 9th (Ras) and 6th (zadina)? Dealing Tatar and Nyquist weren't rebuilding moves? We made 28 picks over the last three drafts Holland was here for and dealt numerous players for picks in that time, shedding talent. We're four years into a rebuild. The fact Yzerman seems to have decided to scrap everything and start from scratch doesn't change that.

Those may have been "rebuilding moves," but no, I don't believe they were rebuilding. Not in terms of a proper rebuild. It was a disjointed, confused process, one I believe affected partly by Mr. I dictating some things, and partly maybe Holland just not equipped to handle a franchise at that type of crossroads. For every "rebuilding move" in that time (highlighted by the Tatar and Nyquist trades), it was counteracted by moves that should have been made and weren't, or by blatant screwups. Stupid NMCs and NTCs, long-term contracts, awful, awful draft picks, or even entire drafts. The Wings had screwed themselves, and so while some "rebuilding efforts" began in 2015 or 2016, they had undermined those efforts so badly that even after Yzerman showed up 3 years later, he still had messes to clean up (and still is) in order to pave the way for a proper rebuild (again, I'll give credit to some draft picks that Holland left Yzerman at least).

Yzerman didn't scrap anything. Yzerman came in to a trainwreck of a mess that had set the rebuild back several years and had to start by cleaning all of that up.

So yeah, I'm saying we're 2 years into a rebuild. And it's 2 years into a rebuild that may very well take even longer than it should because of the preceding years of poor decisions.

 

[skagittarius]

Disappointing.

That's how I felt as a flyers fan and tepid wings fan. Gostisbehere was a low risk acquisition for the wings and I think would have had a productive future in Detroit.

 

[WF19]

Seems like it was a no brainer to pick him up. Free asset to gather more picks down the line. Makes you think there is some sort of secret deal with gm's. I doubt Yzerman took the job without being told that its his team to manage and he can spend what he wants and if he past on Ghost he's not a part of the plan. I trust his plan even though its been a frustrating few years to be a wings fan

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is an internal cap for most teams, given the extreme lack of gate revenue and that may have played a roll in all of this, but I disagree heavily with the notion that buying out Abdelkader reduces our flexibility. Abby will count for less than 3% of the cap during the 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons, which for a team that will almost certainly be far removed from contention, is an absolute pittance. If anything, it gives us more cap room in those years than if we had not bought him out. Further, it takes yet another contract off the books, so we will have yet more room to sign prospects/Free Agents in those years too. The Abdelkader buyout was a win from literally every angle when you also consider the optics of letting an overpaid, underachieving player go, in order to send a message both to media and the locker room that no one, even someone as established as Abby, is liable to stick around.

Fine, you also just made the argument on why claiming a guy for 4.25 cap hit for non-competitive years to help your players develop offensively and make the games a lot easier to watch is a good idea. Why not claim Ghost, we can talk about Yzerman hopefully screwing Philly for assets. The rumor is all this shifting is to go after Ekholm or Johnny Hockey, they aren't forking over their first rounder and reduced salary as some are proposing in this thread...

Abdelkader wasn't going to be on the roster, we heard that at the end of the year. What I am pointing out is the money they aren't paying Abdelkader lines up nicely with what we are paying Staal. It seems in order to get the asset for Staal Yzerman needed to buyout Abdelkader, credit to him for figuring that out, Ilitch should have swallowed the year on Abdelkader, especially if we are going to pass on perfectly good pickups for money... With how the taxi squads would work and the fact they were supposedly sending him to Grand Rapids to finish his career the buyout and the additional years was stupid. It was at best a cost saving move. Forgive me, while I understand saving money in the pandemic between the Tigers and Wings the Ilitch sports empire is running at astronomically less cost than when Mike Ilitch was alive. Now we needed to rebuild on both and I understand throwing bad money at things. However, I am just saying I am starting to think Chris is really tight with the purse strings and not a particularly good owner, he is also on the clock in a big way at this point.

We have tons of cap space, we have roster flexibility, I don't understand this move at all. I can only look at it as people being protective of Yzerman, save him somehow working him with money off which again I find a little hard to believe. Maybe we send Ryan back home in some sort of deal. But I want them to answer it, I am a little sick of this operation. I can love Stevie to death and say that objectively. I root for the crest on that sweater before anybody else. It is time to start showing me something. The top 5 HHOF GM was shown the door after two years of a listless rebuild and he at least answered some questions. Time to step up Yzerman, the next 12 days are big and this summer is monumental we need to see some forward momentum or buckle up people we could land an Eichel caliber talent and still be Buffaloed...

 

[drw02]

Wish they would have claimed him, he's definitely an upgrade over everyone on our left side. Should have just treated it like an early FA signing. Worst case you retain half and trade him for a draft asset in a year or two. Illitch not wanting to be on the hook for 9M+ is the only reason that would make any sense

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Wish they would have claimed him, he's definitely an upgrade over everyone on our left side. Should have just treated it like an early FA signing. Worst case you retain half and trade him for a draft asset in a year or two. Illitch not wanting to be on the hook for 9M+ is the only reason that would make any sense

Ilitch was on the hook for about 7 million dollars over the next 2 1/2 years. We needed to spend it to get to the floor anyway...

 

[Henkka]

Another sign that Yzerman has no interest in making this team better. Tank a minimum 1 more year is the plan..

For, me this case just told that Yzerman will want this team to have good defensive culture, the right culture. And guy who is known offensive-only plays and seen as huge defensive risk, won't belong on this culture.

Yzerman will add offensive players, who are good also defensively, when the time is right. Seider will be first. Defence first, Defensive defencemen, or good defensive players with offence.

Added Stecher, Nemeth, Filppula, Staal... and his Top draft picks are just like that. Seider and Raymond. . They already have defensive game on decent level. They bring in youth and right culture.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

For, me this case just told that Yzerman will want this team to have good defensive culture, the right culture. And guy who is known offensive-only plays and seen as huge defensive risk, won't belong on this culture.

Yzerman will add offensive players, who are good also defensively, when the time is right. Seider will be first. Defence first, Defensive defencemen, or good defensive players with offence.

Added Stecher, Nemeth, Filppula, Staal... and his Top draft picks are just like that. Seider and Raymond. . They already have defensive game on decent level. They bring in youth and right culture.

This is likely the correct train of thought from SY.

As much as I'd like to see Ghost added to help our PP, his 5on5 & D can't be ignored. Similar to AA except for the 5on5 vs. PP was opposite, but still no D. It sets a bad precedent when 1 player is allowed to "get away with it" & not others. Points=$contracts. Advanced stats do also, but often to a lesser degree.


As much as I enjoy the high octane offense/systems/rosters, I want us to be a Top10 & eventually Top5 Defensive team. I want to set the foundation for a Cup team with a good, skilled, solid D, while adding offense piecemeal as opportunities arise. (ZW, Barkov, a good but not great, non-pricey G, no pun int.) Eventually the offense becomes Top5-10, or better.


(Taylor Hall is not what I'd be looking for) in my ArmChair GM mode. No mercenaries (caveat being very short term 1-2yr. band-aids that fill a huge need), but generally stay away.


Spencer Knight just joined FLA. That $10M Bob looks better everyday. Only 5.4 more seasons to go.

 

[BinCookin]

There has to be something these GMs know that we don't, right?

Gostisbehere Has been playing poorly for a few years now.
He is easily NOT worth his current salary which lasts 2 more years!
This is not a Perlini Gamble guys. This is a trade for a 9M cap space over 2 years player. (The kind of player that has negative value right now).

For a lot of teams it was probably straight up about his contract. They couldn't easily fit him and teams that couldn't easily fit him probably also didn't have a glaring need for someone like him. The Wings were one of the few teams with both the cap space and the need...

I am sure Yzerman also thought about WHO else would claim him, and came to that conclusion... ONLY us.
AND if its ONLY us, we claim him. Give Hextall a call and negotiate!

The Flyers most likely put a feeler out hoping to sell him without any sort of retention and/or taking back salary from the interested teams, but found no takers. Somebody taking him on waivers would've been the next best thing before they have to resort to retaining remaining salary, paying up a draft pick to help move him, take on salary from the acquiring team, or a combination of the 3.

Seems to me that teams don't want to take on any sort of perceived negative salary (which SG may be from the Flyers POV at least) unless salary is going the other way, or they're getting some kind of Staal and a 2nd type return.

Context matters man.

For starters only 4 or 5 teams have the cap space to take him on. Detroit, Ottawa, NJ and LA are those teams. LA currently has a top 10 PP so I can see why they’d pass on a pp specialist. NJ has Ty smith as a young offensive LHD, Ottawa has chabot and to a lesser extent Brannstrom so I can see why they passed...

This is exactly what I expect has happened. I am sure the Flyers are thinking this:
1) Can we trade this guy? No
2) Can we give him away for free? Now also NO.
3) Can we retain some salary or add a late round pick to dump him? (They probably will retain 500K or include a 5th round pick or something, but its a better deal than waivers).

Bottom line is Yzerman knows he can get a better deal than nothing.

Also our cap space has value. picking up any player to fill that space, takes us OUT of a future deal to buy that space.

From what I hear, Flat cap for next 3-4 years is going to be a very big problem for some teams. And players better than Ghostibehere, or great picks will be moved to shuffle that cap space.

I would like this player...
I think we can get a better deal than "Full Salary" Ghost.

 

[BinCookin]

so the Wings weren't rebuilding when they picked 9th (Ras) and 6th (zadina)? Dealing Tatar and Nyquist weren't rebuilding moves? We made 28 picks over the last three drafts Holland was here for and dealt numerous players for picks in that time, shedding talent. We're four years into a rebuild. The fact Yzerman seems to have decided to scrap everything and start from scratch doesn't change that.

I would say the Trading of Tatar and Nyquist was the official beginning of our rebuild.
Spot on.

Another sign that Yzerman has no interest in making this team better. Tank a minimum 1 more year is the plan..

I wouldn't really say we are "tanking". Its just signing a Taylor Hall would do the same thing to us, as it has done to Buffalo... A whole lot of nothing. So we have no choice but to continue to add assets slowly.

Those may have been "rebuilding moves," but no, I don't believe they were rebuilding. Not in terms of a proper rebuild. It was a disjointed, confused process, one I believe affected partly by Mr. I dictating some things, and partly maybe Holland just not equipped to handle a franchise at that type of crossroads. For every "rebuilding move" in that time (highlighted by the Tatar and Nyquist trades), it was counteracted by moves that should have been made and weren't, or by blatant screwups. Stupid NMCs and NTCs, long-term contracts, awful, awful draft picks, or even entire drafts. The Wings had screwed themselves, and so while some "rebuilding efforts" began in 2015 or 2016, they had undermined those efforts so badly that even after Yzerman showed up 3 years later, he still had messes to clean up (and still is) in order to pave the way for a proper rebuild (again, I'll give credit to some draft picks that Holland left Yzerman at least).

Yzerman didn't scrap anything. Yzerman came in to a trainwreck of a mess that had set the rebuild back several years and had to start by cleaning all of that up.

So yeah, I'm saying we're 2 years into a rebuild. And it's 2 years into a rebuild that may very well take even longer than it should because of the preceding years of poor decisions.

I see the complaints, but you can start are rebuild and have it go poorly. They 100% were rebuilding. Those were literally our best assets to sell.

Here is a Proper Look at our Rebuild:

I would say we started Rebuilding in 2017:

Trades: (2017)
Feb 24, 2017: Trade Jurco for 2017 3rd
Feb 28, 2017: Trade Smith for 2017 3rd, 2018 2nd
Mar 1, 2017: Trade Vanek for McIlrath, 2017 3rd
March 1, 2017: Trade Ott for 2018 6th

Now This was mostly UFA's but it was clear we were a deadline seller
2017 Draft: We finished 7th Worst, Fell 2 spots to 9, Selected Michael Rasmussen.
The previous 2 years, 2015, 2016 we were 15,16th in draft position. I would call that bubble territory and not in clear rebuild land. Which is why the rebuild began in 2017. (Out of necessity as we all know).

Trades (2017-2018) Season:
Oct 21, 2017: Trade Sheahan + 5th for Wilson + 3rd
Oct 21, 2017: Trade Sproul for Puempel
Dec 4, 2017: Trade Wilson for 2019 5th
Feb 19th, 2018: Trade Mrazek for Conditional 3rd + 4th round picks.
Feb 26th, 2018: Trade Tatar for 2018 1st, 2019 2nd, 2021 3rd (First Big payoff for a solid player)
In the Summer we trade Russo for a conditional 7th.
The 2018 Draft we finish 3rd worst, fall 3 spots to 6th and Select Filip Zadina.

2018-2019 Season:
Feb 22, 2019 Trade Jensen +5th for Bowey + 2020 2nd
Feb 25th 2019 Trade Nyquist for 2019 2nd round pick, 2020 conditional 3rd round pick.

This is the Summer that Holland Moves on and Yzerman takes over:
We again finish 3rd worst and fall 3 spots to 6th and Select Moritz Seider

Aug 14th, 2019: Trade 2020 4th round pick for Adam Erne
Oct 7 2019: Trade David Pope for Alex Biega
Oct 28, 2019: Trade Alec Regula for Brendan Perlini
Nov 6, 2019: Trade De La Rose for Robby Fabbri
Feb 24, 2020: Trade Mike Green for 4th round pick
Feb 24, 2020: Trade Athanasiou + Kuffner for Sam Gagner, 2020 2nd, 2021 2nd (Great Return)
This is the Summer we place dead last... fall 3 spots and select 4th overall Lucas Raymond.

So far this year we have taken on Marc Staal with a 2o21 2nd round pick.

I would say there is a few solid themes here:
1) We have solidly been selling anything we can since the back half of the 2016-2017 Year.
So I would say our rebuild began in 2017.
2) We have not had many good players to sell. So our returns have been minimal.
3) We have fallen down very badly as a result of the draft lottery.
7th --> 9th
3rd--> 6th
3rd-->6th
1st --> 4th
This is a big big factor in why our rebuild is no proceeding like Pittsburgh/Chicago. (or COUGH COUGH NJ and NYR "Rebuilds").
4) Yzerman has actually traded away a few picks/prospects on gambles on reclamation projects. I would say this has worked out well for us.
5) It is clear Yzerman has focused a lot of draft capital on defence men. I think this is a good idea, as they take longer to develop than forwards.
6) Hollands biggest mistake was signing Abdelkader to a 7 year deal, only to realise a few months later, he is going to dismantle the team. Way too many loyalty contracts, and Yzerman is still working through those now

We very clearly have been in a rebuild since 2017.
We can all debate what choices have been done correctly, but it is clear Holland and now Yzerman have been acquiring assets for 4 years now.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

Gostisbehere Has been playing poorly for a few years now.
He is easily NOT worth his current salary which lasts 2 more years!
This is not a Perlini Gamble guys. This is a trade for a 9M cap space over 2 years player. (The kind of player that has negative value right now).



I am sure Yzerman also thought about WHO else would claim him, and came to that conclusion... ONLY us.
AND if its ONLY us, we claim him. Give Hextall a call and negotiate!





This is exactly what I expect has happened. I am sure the Flyers are thinking this:
1) Can we trade this guy? No
2) Can we give him away for free? Now also NO.
3) Can we retain some salary or add a late round pick to dump him? (They probably will retain 500K or include a 5th round pick or something, but its a better deal than waivers).

Bottom line is Yzerman knows he can get a better deal than nothing.

Also our cap space has value. picking up any player to fill that space, takes us OUT of a future deal to buy that space.

From what I hear, Flat cap for next 3-4 years is going to be a very big problem for some teams. And players better than Ghostibehere, or great picks will be moved to shuffle that cap space.

I would like this player...
I think we can get a better deal than "Full Salary" Ghost.

Excellent post. I wanted Yzerman to make claim, but as soon as it was reported that he didn't, it raised a lot of questions about the player and confirmed some macro ideas in my mind.

We, on the outside have only so much knowledge of these players and very little knowledge about what GM's and teams are thinking and how they view the current operating environment. It seems very clear to me that there is a lot more pain coming to certain teams in this flat cap environment and that there will be better opportunities available than the one that Yzerman just passed on.

Yzerman clearly is a very long-term thinker and I have no doubt that he has a well-conceived plan. He is privy to so much information that is not revealed to any of us. I will remain patient.

 

[Winger98]

Those may have been "rebuilding moves," but no, I don't believe they were rebuilding. Not in terms of a proper rebuild. It was a disjointed, confused process, one I believe affected partly by Mr. I dictating some things, and partly maybe Holland just not equipped to handle a franchise at that type of crossroads. For every "rebuilding move" in that time (highlighted by the Tatar and Nyquist trades), it was counteracted by moves that should have been made and weren't, or by blatant screwups. Stupid NMCs and NTCs, long-term contracts, awful, awful draft picks, or even entire drafts. The Wings had screwed themselves, and so while some "rebuilding efforts" began in 2015 or 2016, they had undermined those efforts so badly that even after Yzerman showed up 3 years later, he still had messes to clean up (and still is) in order to pave the way for a proper rebuild (again, I'll give credit to some draft picks that Holland left Yzerman at least).

Yzerman didn't scrap anything. Yzerman came in to a trainwreck of a mess that had set the rebuild back several years and had to start by cleaning all of that up.

So yeah, I'm saying we're 2 years into a rebuild. And it's 2 years into a rebuild that may very well take even longer than it should because of the preceding years of poor decisions.

The Tatar/Nyquist deals happened in 2018 and 2019, what contracts did Detroit hand out that were long term and loaded with some sort of NMC/NTC? Helm, Gator, Dekeyser, and Nielsen all date back to 2016. The wings clearly entered the rebuild starting with the 2017 draft. The following two seasons saw them begin shipping out talent for futures. The fact that they had contracts you don't like on the books from prior to that doesn't change that.

You're making excuses for a guy who doesn't deserve them. A proper rebuild isn't being a crap team for 5+ years. That's a failure.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I'm not going to try to pretend that I understand what Yzerman's thinking is here, but I said I would give him the benefit of the doubt and will continue to do so. We are not a good hockey team but we know that Yzerman will make trades/sign guys to replace older players on bad contracts. Fabbri had little cost and you can see how they are trying to mold him into a 2C to replace Neilsen. Ryan, Stetcher and Merrill are on team friendly deals that give us maximum flexibility.

I also wonder how much say Blashill would have. We know he wants to play a certain "style" of hockey and Ghost does not fit his style at all. Yzerman has stood by Blashill so perhaps he ran the idea past Blashill and the coach said that he wouldn't be a fit. I 100% do not know if this is the case, but we can certainly infer that Ghost would not do well in Blashill's "system".

 

[BinCookin]

....A proper rebuild isn't being a crap team for 5+ years. That's a failure.

This is an interesting statement. One that is connected to Expectations for how rebuilds are supposed to work.

Do you remember Chicago in the 2000's?
Chicago was bad for like a decade. It also helps when they were dead last, they received the 1st pick in Kane.
But they were bad for like a decade.

Washington starts rebuilding and gets Ovechkin in year 1/2 of that rebuild.
Pittsburgh gets Crosby/Malkin in year 1/2 of that rebuild.

This 5 year timeline is WRONG... or more so ONLY possible if you get lucky as shit.

The most recent rebuild that is working well is. TORONTO. Who got Matthews (A superstar) in the year they placed dead last. ALSO, people forget that Toronto was bad for like a Decade as well. If you look closely, their rebuild took a LONG LONG time.

We have not drafted top 3 yet. We have finished 3rd last, 3rd last and last.... YET, we have never drafted a top 3 pick.
The current draft lottery rules have really taken apart this timeline.

I would like this to go faster. But each rebuild is unique. And quite frankly lottery luck in the right year is more important than the drafting ability of your scouts.