Post-Game Talk: Goodbye 2013 | Pens-1 Devils-2

[gordie]

Despres had some lapses at the end of game in both ends of the Rink. Fleury played well but this game was lost by not jumping on New Jersey by getting the first goal. Under Bylsma this team at times loses interest in what they need to do against individual teams because its different from team to team.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

Aren't you the one who says you're the coach?

(If I'm mistaken, I'm sorry)

As a coach, why does every Penguins/Devils game look exactly the same? Why does New Jersey have the most wins against a Bylsma-coached team?

Any ideas?

Yes, you are correct.

I don't have a definitive answer why, but I have some theories.

1) The trap is meant to make teams give up possession and play a dump and grind style game. Players like Sid and Geno don't like to give up possession and feel they can "out skill" the trap if you will. This is what trap teams want them to do. Case in point, today Neal tried going 1 vs 3 at the NJ blueline at the end of the game instead of dumping it deep and chasing so we could get MAF off and a line change. He turned the puck over and NJ got it and held it in our zone and killed about 40 seconds and drew an icing.

2) Brodeur has had our number for years......I know, he's beat everyone, but he just seems to play his best against Pittsburgh, especially in NJ.

3) Not varying our breakout enough. I know everyone here hates the stretch pass, but it is really the best way to loosen the trap....the red line was eliminated in an effort to help beat the trap. However, you cant just stretch pass, you have to combine it with traditional support breakouts and hybrid stretch/traditional breakouts. Case in point- Chicago vs Boston in the finals. The Hawks stretch passed like crazy, but they also blended the traditional breakout with it.......they were unpredictable, and kept Boston guessing, thus becoming harder to trap and obstruct.

4) Someone else mentioned this, but simply execution! Best laid plans don't matter if they aren't executed properly.

Now personally, I feel that #1 and #3 are the biggest issues. Our being predictable is a by product of certain players having too much confidence in their ability (Crosby, Geno, Neal). That is why Crosby gets so rattled by teams like Boston. It's hard for a guy who is used to doing whatever he wants, when he wants, to admit he needs to simplify his game to make the team more effective.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

Glass AND Adams combining for 0 SOG and 0 missed shots.

0 missed shots? That's good!

 

[Penguinzilla*]

- Me - didn't watch game because it was the Devils and they are brutally boring to watch

+ sid got a point

 

[gordie]

Glass did rock Elias, so at least that's something,

 

[Wes C Addle]

I missed the game, though it sounds like it was a typical one in Jersey. Quick question.

What were the D pairings?

Thanks guys, Happy New Year!

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I was at the game and have a few thoughts:

- Holy ****, we cannot beat the Devils in Jersey. This is like the 6th game in a row that I've gone to that we've been totally out-hustled and looked like garbage.

- Fleury didn't give up a ton of goals, but his rebound control was terrible all game long and he was flopping a a lot. A couple of missed open nets by the Devils kept it from being a 4-1 game.

- Bylsma seems to be really averse to putting Neal with Sid. Why? We're not a deeper team with Neal on a line with Jokinen and Sutter, or Gibbons, or Kobasew, or whatever garbage you want to throw there. You just neutralize Neal by doing that.

- Sid's line got worked in the corners and along the boards all game, and Sid got murdered in the faceoff dot all afternoon.

- Hey Shero, get Orpik the **** out of Pittsburgh. Yesterday. He stinks out loud. Awful decision making with the puck, bad turnovers, getting out-muscled along the boards, and doesn't clear jack **** in front of the net. Move him while he still has some value.

- I thought Despres was stellar at times, and showed how young/unseasoned he is at others. I just wish Dan would leave him in the ****ing lineup and give him big minutes for good. Despres probably has the threat of a demotion to WBS looming in the back of his mind all the time.

- A timeout must have done something really ****ed up to Bylsma at one time in his life, because he just ****ing hates them, apparently.

- Jagr's still got hands for days, and can protect the puck like a monster. I hate him as a dude, but if Shero were to grab him at the deadline, I think he could really help this team offensively and on the PP.

- Kobasew, Glass, Adams, Gibbons, and Jokinen are all terrible hockey players, and should be systematically removed from this organization. Every single one of them is either useless, or a detriment to the team every time they step on the ice.

 

[Lomez]

Kunitz and Jokinen missing open goals, MAF getting beat on his glove hand, and a bunch of scrubs skating around aimlessly. Surprise, a loss.

I'm getting so bored with Adams, Glass, Conner, Gibbons, etc.

 

[Will Hunting]

- Kobasew, Glass, Adams, Gibbons, and Jokinen are all terrible hockey players, and should be systematically removed from this organization. Every single one of them is either useless, or a detriment to the team every time they step on the ice.

Unfair to Gibbons, because he´s an AHLer under AHLish contract and he also wasn´t that horrific as the others mentioned.

That said, Kobasew, Glass, Adams & Jokinen are a huge embarrassment and our franchise should feel bad because we are probably playing those guys even when we are fully healthy. This is sad, it really is.

I´m starting to hate some of our players and obviously Shero is also responsible for this. He HAS TO do something, because we are going to be embarrassed in the POs once again.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

- Kobasew, Glass, Adams, Gibbons, and Jokinen are all terrible hockey players, and should be systematically removed from this organization. Every single one of them is either useless, or a detriment to the team every time they step on the ice.

This right here is why I don't get there are some people who don't want the cap to reach a certain point. We didn't have this many scrubs during our cup runs because our core were still under cap friendly contracts. But since then, we've had to fill the rest of the roster with players like these. And with us not drafting legitimate forwards, it leaves us with this problem.

High end talent ...then huge drop off. As opposed to other teams like Chicago for example, more depth throughout. Regardless, I'd still take our situation over any other teams ( having two best players in the world) and so would most other fanbases . We are very spoiled. But it is what it is....this is what happens when we haven't won a cup since 09 . And will continue until we do.

Bottom line is the next step( Shero already tried the all in route and it didn't work, it only worsened our prospect pool) is to make a solid hockey trade or two for top 6 wingers who are locked up - and get rid of draft picks( not first round) to sure up the bottom 6. No more top prospects/top pick for rental. Only way we should be trading our first rounder this time around is if it's for a winger who's under contract for a few years at least.

I agree with the person who said a move needs to happen sooner rather than later. Need to get experience with this lineup. Make the "hockey trade" now and then can add rental at deadline.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Unfair to Gibbons, because he´s an AHLer under AHLish contract and he also wasn´t that horrific as the others mentioned.

That said, Kobasew, Glass, Adams & Jokinen are a huge embarrassment and our franchise should feel bad because we are probably playing those guys even when we are fully healthy. This is sad, it really is.

I´m starting to hate some of our players and obviously Shero is also responsible for this. He HAS TO do something, because we are going to be embarrassed in the POs once again.

I forgot Conner, too. He has the heart of a lion, but he just gets tossed around the entire time he's on the ice. He can pack his ****, too.

It might be unfair to Gibbons, but it is what it is. He's a career AHLer who shows no real aspects of his game that point to him being an impact NHL player. He's not a scoring line player, and he's not good enough defensively for a shutdown line, and he's not gritty enough to be a grinder. He's a guy with no purpose.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I forgot Conner, too. He has the heart of a lion, but he just gets tossed around the entire time he's on the ice. He can pack his ****, too.

It might be unfair to Gibbons, but it is what it is. He's a career AHLer who shows no real aspects of his game that point to him being an impact NHL player. He's not a scoring line player, and he's not good enough defensively for a shutdown line, and he's not gritty enough to be a grinder. He's a guy with no purpose.

he's buzzin

 

[deakka]

I think Conner and Giboons are as useless as everyone else. I still cant hate on them too much since they dont have any busniess up on the NHL roster in the first place. I rather talk about how our regulars suck insted since i hold them to much higher standard.

Adams and Glass were hammered in their own zone almost every ****. I cant remember how many times i heard "Adams tries to clear but fails to get it out" or similar stuff.
Sill is by far the best bottom player atm. Hes not scoring, but neither ae the others. But at least he can make the simple play, clear the zone, and throw some checks.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Well we all thought Adams would be gone yet was re-signed. I'd say we can look forward to Glass not being on the roster next year, but it's pretty obvious what will happen.

 

[Fire Shero*]

Regardless, I'd still take our situation over any other teams ( having two best players in the world) and so would most other fanbases.

I don't think this is true anymore. Chicago and Boston have much better depth. Our 2 star players are constantly injured and they are surrounded by inferior talent except Neal. Look at our 4th line, it is an embarrassment. Glass Adams Vitale is not good enough for a contender. They can't score and have been allowing a bunch of goals. That line is utterly useless.

I'm pretty sure LA, Bos, Chi, SJ, Ana don't consistently play 6 - 8 forwards every game that really have no business playing in the league.

Letang Crosby and Malkin are great players but they are so damn fragile. Fleury has been worthless in the playoffs.

I think there are a fair amount of teams in better situations. I would trade our roster for Chicago' sand Boston. It's great having superstars but not when you surround them with players that are ****.

It's the same effing story with the pens. Superstars constantly getting injured. How many games will Neal, Crosby, Malkin, Letang and Martin play together? 3 or 4? We don't have the answers in the AHL, gibbons, sill, z, Conner are steaming piles of dog ****. Megna looked good for 3 games and Bennett is so overrated and injury prone.

There are a lot of other teams I would switch rosters with. We could be the best team, but shero is a ****ing idiot.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Nah, I'm too attached to Crosby and Malkin. I could see an argument for Chicago's roster, but no chance in hell would I trade for Boston's .

We are at a point right now where we are affected by the cap, was bound to happen. With it going back up , this team will be much better off.

Btw, both Kane and Toews will be getting hefty raises in 2015.

 

[Fire Shero*]

Nah, I'm too attached to Crosby and Malkin. I could see an argument for Chicago's roster, but no chance in hell would I trade for Boston's .

We are at a point right now where we are affected by the cap, was bound to happen. With it going back up , this team will be much better off.

Btw, both Kane and Toews will be getting hefty raises in 2015.

That would be true if we had a competent GM. Dopee will be back for next season, so Crosby will be stuck with him next year. He will re-sign Orpik and Letang's new contract will kick in. That cap space will disappear pretty quickly.

 

[Blitzburgh87*]

- Crosby not getting 60 points
+++ me beating Pokemon Y

 

[Fire Shero*]

Btw, both Kane and Toews will be getting hefty raises in 2015.

That's still 2 more years. Bowman retooled after they won the cup to win another one. The hawks can actually gasp draft players and don't dumpster dive for half of their forwards.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

If we had a guy like Rupp, a 4th line of Sill - Vitale - Rupp would be a nightmare to play against. I think we're missing a lot of size and toughness (not a goon/enforcer) in our bottom six.

 

[gordie]

That's still 2 more years. Bowman retooled after they won the cup to win another one. The hawks can actually gasp draft players and don't dumpster dive for half of their forwards.

They only dumpster dive for goalies in Chicago if you notice their Team GA.

 

[stardog]

- Bylsma
- Gladams
- Engopik

Yup...pretty much exactly exactly this.
I was actually watching this with my dad who knows very little about hockey (sadly enough, this statement describes our coach as well). He is a huge sports fan so he knows what every other uneducated sports fan knows.
Anyhow, he saw the Penguins record and asked me why I didn't like the coach given that the team had a great record. I told him the main reason was that he plays the wrong players simply because they were veterans over better players who were younger.
Funny thing is out of the few comments he made watching this game were:
"Why is that guy not doing anything?He could have had the puck or at least tried but he stood there not knowing what to do for several seconds". (He was talking about Adams).

"Man, that guy really blew it". (Again...Adams).

"He must be one of those minor leaguers you're talking about because even I can tell he is the worst guy out there this game". (Yup...you guessed it...Adams) followed by my explanation that he is a regular and his response of, "Well he shouldn't be".

My favorite comment was, "That number 47 seems like he is really good. He has been around the puck the whole game". I then explained that he was in the minor leagues to which my dad replied, "Now I see why the coach pisses you off. Even a village idiot can see this clearly"... Village idiot would be my dad's favorite term. And he now uses it to describe the Penguins coach.
Very insightful indeed.

Ref's sucked tonight.
Might I add that I wouldn't mind trading Suter either?

 

[IcedCapp]

Yes, you are correct.

I don't have a definitive answer why, but I have some theories.

1) The trap is meant to make teams give up possession and play a dump and grind style game. Players like Sid and Geno don't like to give up possession and feel they can "out skill" the trap if you will. This is what trap teams want them to do. Case in point, today Neal tried going 1 vs 3 at the NJ blueline at the end of the game instead of dumping it deep and chasing so we could get MAF off and a line change. He turned the puck over and NJ got it and held it in our zone and killed about 40 seconds and drew an icing.

2) Brodeur has had our number for years......I know, he's beat everyone, but he just seems to play his best against Pittsburgh, especially in NJ.

3) Not varying our breakout enough. I know everyone here hates the stretch pass, but it is really the best way to loosen the trap....the red line was eliminated in an effort to help beat the trap. However, you cant just stretch pass, you have to combine it with traditional support breakouts and hybrid stretch/traditional breakouts. Case in point- Chicago vs Boston in the finals. The Hawks stretch passed like crazy, but they also blended the traditional breakout with it.......they were unpredictable, and kept Boston guessing, thus becoming harder to trap and obstruct.

4) Someone else mentioned this, but simply execution! Best laid plans don't matter if they aren't executed properly.

Now personally, I feel that #1 and #3 are the biggest issues. Our being predictable is a by product of certain players having too much confidence in their ability (Crosby, Geno, Neal). That is why Crosby gets so rattled by teams like Boston. It's hard for a guy who is used to doing whatever he wants, when he wants, to admit he needs to simplify his game to make the team more effective.

Now, see, I agree with all of that, honestly.

My question is: isn't most of that on the coach? Yes, the players have to do better, but the coach needs to pound those adjustments against the trap home? And if players aren't taking his words to heart, he needs to hold them accountable?

(AND HE NEEDS TO STOP PLAYING ENGO, ORPIK, ADAMS AND GLASS LIKE THEY ARE PRO BOWLERS)

 

[Will Hunting]

One thing about Engelland. I was all for trading him when he was occasionally sitting in the pressbox at the start of the season. Everyone was saying that I´m not right and we should keep Engo, because he´s a cheap and ideal option for a 7th D-man etc etc..

Well, here it is. Engo never sits again. He´s apparently our no.1 D-man right now and he´s a lock to be a regular in the playoffs even with our full lineup. He´s not even blocking our younger & better players but he´s also an extremely dangerous toy in Bylsma´s hands. Just mark my words when Engo fails in the playoffs again, when Bylsma will use him in a crucial situations.

 

[Shrimper]

I'm coming to you from the future and god damn it is the same as 2013.