"Good Team" Scorers...

[GlitchMarner]

Who are some players who benefited significantly from playing on good teams and/or with quality linemates?

Obviously playing with talented linemates or on very good teams can boost any player's totals, but which players were essentially carried to greater heights than their talent would have allowed them to achieve under different circumstances? How did they do when they had to play with weaker supporting casts?

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[Moose Head]

Al Secord playing with Denis Savard, vs his situations on Boston and the Leafs.

 

[begbeee]

Ray Sheppard - not like he was a a bad player but he was carried on back of the all time great during his best season

Adam Oates has a pretty good list of linemates who had a career year next to him, Chris Simon to name one of them

I am a big fan of Martin Brodeur and he is for sure an all time great but his numbers are definitely affected by playing for Devils with their system.

 

[Moose Head]

Ray Sheppard - not like he was a a bad player but he was carried on back of the all time great during his best season

Adam Oates has a pretty good list of linemates who had a career year next to him, Chris Simon to name one of them

I am a big fan of Martin Brodeur and he is for sure an all time great but his numbers are definitely affected by playing for Devils with their system.

They built that system around Brodeur with his exceptional puck handing. Sure, other goalies might have made more saves on the shots he faced, but no goalie in history controlled a game in the manner he could and his ability to reduce shots on goal and high danger chances.

 

[brachyrynchos]

Martin Straka seems like one of those guys. Not a driver but a good complimentary scorer in the right environment and with better linemates. Pittsburgh and the Rangers had both the systems and players, everywhere else he seemed to struggle a bit.
Derek King had his injury later which threw his game off but even before that he struggled without Turgeon and Thomas in NY. His best years were part of that trio.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Chris Kunitz...?

 

[Johnny Engine]

Chris Kunitz...?

Clearly he's had some good fortune in his career, but I think it's always telling when a guy gets passed around a bit, and it's always the same type of team taking him on.

 

[The Panther]

Despite the OP's best intentions, I'm wary of these kinds of threads because any highly skilled player who had a career or outlier year will inevitably get mentioned, despite their being highly skilled players. (It's only a matter of posts before someone says Bernie Nicholls.)

While I respect Jonathan Cheechoo as a sniper, and he was probably peaking around 2006 anyway, it's pretty clear that being on a line and the PP with peak-Joe Thornton (just after he arrived) really elevated Cheechoo's totals for a year or two, probably well beyond what they could have been in almost any other situation:

Before Thornton
7 goals in 24 games
After Thornton
49 goals in 58 games

 

[Michael Farkas]

Is he a "good team" scorer or just a guy that had a fluke 100 games with a HOF-level player...? I think there's a subtle difference...like Mike Knuble with a bunch of good players in a bunch of good situations but without amazing tools did well for himself...

David Clarkson had similarly poor tools...and didn't survive when his teams weren't good around him...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Ron Francis

Igor Larionov

Johnny Bucyk, Wayne Cashman, Ken Hodge

Bert Olmstead

Steve Shutt

Clarke Gillies

Bun Cook (probably)

 

[NyQuil]

Ron Francis

Can I hear your rationale on this one?

Yes, 7 seasons with Pittsburgh, but 16 seasons with Hartford and Carolina.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Can I hear your rationale on this one?

Yes, 7 seasons with Pittsburgh, but 16 seasons with Hartford and Carolina.

I was expecting pushback on him. I'm just referring to Francis' statistical peak in Pittsburgh. The OP talked a lot about players whose stats were inflated by their teams. Unlike other posters who focused on relative scrubs, I tried to pick otherwise good or great players who were still helped a lot by their teams.

Another guy - Johnny Bucyk. Was a leading scorer on bad Boston teams for years before Orr came around and suddenly everyone on the team was reaching new heights.

 

[NyQuil]

I was expecting pushback on him. I'm just referring to Francis' statistical peak in Pittsburgh. The OP talked a lot about players whose stats were inflated by their teams. Unlike other posters who focused on relative scrubs, I tried to pick otherwise good or great players who were still helped a lot by their teams.

I did some quick math, and his stats are as follows:

With Hartford:

714 GP 264 G 557 A 821 PTS for a P% of 1.149

With Pittsburgh:

533 GP 164 G 449 A 613 PTS for a P% of 1.150

Now, league scoring as a whole may have gone down some over his tenure with Pittsburgh, but that's still pretty close.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I did some quick math, and his stats are as follows:

With Hartford:

714 GP 264 G 557 A 821 PTS for a P% of 1.149

With Pittsburgh:

533 GP 164 G 449 A 613 PTS for a P% of 1.150

Whoops typo.

Francis' top 10 finishes:

1994-95 NHL 59 (5th)

1995-96 NHL 119 (4th)

1996-97 NHL 90 (8th)

1997-98 NHL 87 (5th)

2001-02 NHL 77 (9th)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1994-95 was Jagr's 1st Art Ross, 1997-98 was Francis' last season as Jagr's linemate.

 

[NyQuil]

Francis' top 10 finishes:

I find the premise difficult because he played on a very poor team in Hartford, not even an average or competitive team.

It's a bit like Dale Hawerchuk in Winnipeg.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I find the premise difficult because he played on a very poor team in Hartford, not even an average or competitive team.

It's a bit like Dale Hawerchuk in Winnipeg.

Yes, I agree with you about his time in Hartford.

 

[VMBM]

Ron Francis

Igor Larionov

Johnny Bucyk, Wayne Cashman, Ken Hodge

Bert Olmstead

Steve Shutt

Clarke Gillies

Bun Cook (probably)

Larionov, in the Soviet Union or in the NHL, or both? I'd say both (Detroit especially in the NHL)

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Larionov, in the Soviet Union or in the NHL, or both? I'd say both (Detroit especially in the NHL)

For me, both. I'm not as immediately fluent in Soviet stats as you are, but it certainly looks to me like Krutov and Makarov didn't need Larionov as much as he needed them. At least if we are strictly talking offensive numbers, which seems to be what this thread is about.

 

[Black Kevin]

For me, both. I'm not as immediately fluent in Soviet stats as you are, but it certainly looks to me like Krutov and Makarov didn't need Larionov as much as he needed them. At least if we are strictly talking offensive numbers, which seems to be what this thread is about.

Despite his linemates superior statistics, I think it's fair to say Larionov had a huge input on the line's overall play. He was as gifted as Krutov and Makarov for sure. Out of the five guys the CCCP used to ice, I'd claim only Fetisov was a better player.

 

[VMBM]

Reggie Leach, probably Bill Barber too.

Anyone playing with Gretzky or Orr.

 

[VMBM]

Despite his linemates superior statistics, I think it's fair to say Larionov had a huge input on the line's overall play. He was as gifted as Krutov and Makarov for sure. Out of the five guys the CCCP used to ice, I'd claim only Fetisov was a better player.

He certainly wasn't as gifted offensively as Krutov and especially Makarov! Defensively, maybe, maybe not; namely, it was also Makarov and Krutov who were the main penalty killers for Team USSR and, I would reckon, CSKA. I know that contemporary hockey pundits disagree with you too, as both Makarov and Krutov were much more decorated players, both internationally and domestically - so it was not just about stats.