GM Talk - Any Reason Why Nonis Should Be Given a Second Chance To Build The Leafs?

[Cap'n Flavour]

Nonis proved that he can trade expiring contracts of good-to-mediocre UFAs for picks. That is not a very unique skill. Oh, and Horton's cap hit will still limit the Leafs' flexibility in the off season.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Well, that's why we have to pleasure to continue to have Phaneuf in our lineup. Sometimes, you have to take less to just move on. We'll see if we can get anything better this summer I guess.

If The Red Wings were offering us lowball deals, let's say Smith, Kindl and Weiss. Just guessing based on what we know. I trust the entire board would be in agreement, we'd all hang up on Holland.

 

[BudMaster17]

If Shanahan has plans to fire Nonis, sooner rather than later would be the opportune time. We've got a little less than 4 months till the draft, it'd be smart to let the new guy in now to establish a foothold before then.

Agreed. The right move is to let him go now.... Only if you got the next gm lined up and he is available. Till then they are paying Nonis anywas so might as well put him to work scouting grabbing coffees.

Ideally Nonis would have continued to be the assistant GM when Burke was fired and someone else brought in to be Gm. I'm not a fan of his but in my mind he is a top notch assistant Gm but a brutal Gm. Phaneuf deal was good, Jvr deal was great, all his moves. But he doesn't have the discipline that Burke had on the contract front and that will be his down fall. That and the team hasn't showed any improvement since the Burke era, it's just been lateral at best.

 

[91Stammer*]

Not that he has done something good, but guy is responsible for players like Bernier and Holland with 2nd round picks. He has also held on to our prospects and picks outside of 2nd. Something previous GMs havent done. I hope he gets 1 more year to prove himself, nothing more than that though. If he cant do a great job this year then he should be gone as soon as half season mark.

 

[Al14]

If The Red Wings were offering us lowball deals, let's say Smith, Kindl and Weiss. Just guessing based on what we know. I trust the entire board would be in agreement, we'd all hang up on Holland.

And if we get less offered later, Holland will phone Nonis and laugh in his ear!

 

[deuce457]

I am torn on how I feel, players like franson, holzer, winnik and santorelli were never the problem.

The core of lupul, phaneuf, kessel and bozak has proved time and time again that they are not good enough to compete for a top playoff spot.

The return for franson was nice, but I still think that moving Phaneuf was the play. That shakes up the dressing room and really sends a message.

I guess I will have to be patient and see what happens in the off season.

 

[BayStreetBully]

And if we get less offered later, Holland will phone Nonis and laugh in his ear!

Then we take the lesser deal at that time, fully knowing the market isn't there. There is no reason to accept a lowball deal from Holland right now. If they want Phaneuf for their cup run, they can make us a good offer.

Good for Nonis for not caving. You can't be a good GM if you're going to make bad trades for the sake of making trades.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I have a feeling when the Rangers or Habs go farther than the Red Wings do this spring, Holland will regret not paying the price for Dion to make it out of the east. It's wide open in this conference, up for grabs for any team to make it to the final. Could be the last kick at the cat for the group of Holland, Babcock, Daysyuk and Zetterberg. Nonis' patience may pay dividends. Regardless, The Red Wings may regret they didn't pay the price for Phaneuf when the east is there for the taking for GM's that go for it.

 

[Smif]

I think Nonis is the perfect person to lead a rebuild, I hope we keep him.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I have a feeling when the Rangers and or Habs go farther than the Red Wings do this spring, Holland will regret not paying the price for Dion to make it out of the east. It's wide open in this conference, up for grabs for any team to make it to the final. Could be the last kick at the cat for the group of Holland, Babcock, Daysyuk and Zetterberg. Nonis' patience may pay dividends. Regardless, The Red Wings may regret they didn't pay the price for Phaneuf when the east is so wide open.

i think a portion of the issue is the new arena in Detroit + Zetterburg & Datsyuk getting up in age. I feel that Holland wants Mantha/Larkin to be the headliners .

However. i don't know. My feeling is that Holland and Nonis were playing chicken, Holland blinked and got Zidilicky and played it safe. (at the very least, I would have at least counted for Polak (a righty for Mr. Picky Babcock) and paid a 1st (or 2 2nds, or whatever) get some grit and vinegar into that line up on the backend.

I'm not mad 1 iota for Nonis standing firm on that. I would have retained for a 1st, Larkin/Mantha, Weiss, and Smith. no questions. (i would have even capitulated on the 1st, for 2 2nds). Detroit will be interesting, that is for sure.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

i think a portion of the issue is the new arena in Detroit + Zetterburg & Datsyuk getting up in age. I feel that Holland wants Mantha/Larkin to be the headliners .

However. i don't know. My feeling is that Holland and Nonis were playing chicken, Holland blinked and got Zidilicky and played it safe. (at the very least, I would have at least counted for Polak (a righty for Mr. Picky Babcock) and paid a 1st (or 2 2nds, or whatever) get some grit and vinegar into that line up on the backend.

I'm not mad 1 iota for Nonis standing firm on that. I would have retained for a 1st, Larkin/Mantha, Weiss, and Smith. no questions. (i would have even capitulated on the 1st, for 2 2nds). Detroit will be interesting, that is for sure.

Detroit didn't do as much as Montreal or NY. They don't deserve to win the East with small conservative moves IMO.

Boston went for it when they dealt for Kaberle, they won the cup. Years ago Calgary dealt Brett Hull and won a cup.

Sure losing Larkin or Mantha would hurt, but this was the year the Red Wings should have been all in. Babcock may not return, and Datsyuk and Zetterberg are not getting any younger. If Detroit have an early exit, Wings fans at the least can question did Holland do enough. Only time will tell, but this could be the last kick at the can for them for awhile.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Detroit didn't do as much as Montreal or NY. They don't deserve to win the East with small conservative moves IMO.

Boston went for it when they dealt for Kaberle, they won the cup. Years ago Calgary dealt Brett Hull and won a cup.

Sure losing Larkin or Mantha would hurt, but this was the year the Red Wings should have been all in. Babcock may not return, and Datsyuk and Zetterberg are not getting any younger. If Detroit have an early exit, Wings fans at the least can question did Holland do enough. Only time will tell, but this could be the last kick at the can for them for awhile.

TSN had the "Stanley Cup Winner trade board" near the end. most winners tend to make a HUGE splash. this is why I'm curious why Anaheim tinkered themselves. Yeah they got Wiz, but... (shrug). if i knew Chicago was struggling, LA was struggling, San Jose's San Jose, and St Louis has this issues, i would have made sure my defense was shored up firmly with Dion (and what? that's Theodore, a 1st and a dump + dump?) they completely 'tinkered' their back end today but nothing screams "awesome. I think we can all agree Dion in the 3-4 slot is much better than Dion in the 1 slot. (and in case of injury dion CAN move up). we'll see. (and maybe early exits make people make silly decisions)

 

[WilliamNylander]

He had a good trade deadline week for sure, but just sold off UFAs and cleaned up his own mess in Clarkson.

Would've liked to see him move a core player

 

[pucky]

The Leaf apologist (pretend critics) Toronto media doesn't know if Nonis should be kept or not?!?

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/02/will-maple-leafs-gm-dave-nonis-stay-or-go

Toronto's media is getting afraid Rogers might shut the door and not let them in?

What a joke. Why does Kessel get so mad about it? They're kitty cats...

 

[The Winter Soldier]

TSN had the "Stanley Cup Winner trade board" near the end. most winners tend to make a HUGE splash. this is why I'm curious why Anaheim tinkered themselves. Yeah they got Wiz, but... (shrug). if i knew Chicago was struggling, LA was struggling, San Jose's San Jose, and St Louis has this issues, i would have made sure my defense was shored up firmly with Dion (and what? that's Theodore, a 1st and a dump + dump?) they completely 'tinkered' their back end today but nothing screams "awesome. I think we can all agree Dion in the 3-4 slot is much better than Dion in the 1 slot. (and in case of injury dion CAN move up). we'll see. (and maybe early exits make people make silly decisions)

I like what Anaheim did, they have strengthened their defence significantly. Murray has them primed for a good run. I only worry about their goaltending. But all else, this team looks pretty good.

IMO the loser of this trade deadline was Holland. He got Cole and Zdicky meh moves. For a team that wants to win the east. NY, TB, and Montreal all made moves to that show me they are going it.

 

[indigobuffalo]

TSN had the "Stanley Cup Winner trade board" near the end. most winners tend to make a HUGE splash. this is why I'm curious why Anaheim tinkered themselves. Yeah they got Wiz, but... (shrug). if i knew Chicago was struggling, LA was struggling, San Jose's San Jose, and St Louis has this issues, i would have made sure my defense was shored up firmly with Dion (and what? that's Theodore, a 1st and a dump + dump?) they completely 'tinkered' their back end today but nothing screams "awesome. I think we can all agree Dion in the 3-4 slot is much better than Dion in the 1 slot. (and in case of injury dion CAN move up). we'll see. (and maybe early exits make people make silly decisions)

At this point this really seems like the only inherent positive in not moving Phaneuf at the deadline.

Especially when you look at the Central...

Look at teams like CHI, NSH, STL, heck even WPG... all teams that made big moves at or prior to the deadline to give themselves an edge, and at least one is FOR SURE (mathematically) out in the first round, possibly two, and Winnipeg/Chicago/St Louis aren't even guarantees to make the playoffs!

So yeah, I could see some teams feel like major changes are needed if the rest of the season/post-season unravels for them.

But that being said, I think that Nonis/Shanahan should've pushed that agenda hard.

Saying stuff like:"Look at what the rest of the Central is doing, if you don't match/surpass this at the deadline, your neck could be in the noose. Draft picks/prospects won't save your job, but Phaneuf could mean the difference."

Just seems like there should've been more done... dunno.

 

[pucky]

Just seems like there should've been more done... dunno.

Ya think? Their goalies steal games and Bozak/Kessel etc. sometimes have a good game when the other team is tired. Keeping the core might mean being higher in the standings than they otherwise would be?

 

[LaCarriere]

Detroit didn't do as much as Montreal or NY. They don't deserve to win the East with small conservative moves IMO.

Boston went for it when they dealt for Kaberle, they won the cup. Years ago Calgary dealt Brett Hull and won a cup.

Sure losing Larkin or Mantha would hurt, but this was the year the Red Wings should have been all in. Babcock may not return, and Datsyuk and Zetterberg are not getting any younger. If Detroit have an early exit, Wings fans at the least can question did Holland do enough. Only time will tell, but this could be the last kick at the can for them for awhile.

Only here would I see somebody criticizing another teams GM for not trading for a player that 99% of their fans want shipped out of town.

Detroit doesn't deserve to win because they chose to not dump future assets for Phaneuf? I'd say the team that plays the best deserves to win... regardless if they did or didn't make a big splash at the deadline.

So Detroit didn't want to trade arugably their best prospect in a deal to help Nonis out of a contract that he signed just a little over a year ago? Keeping in mind Holland knows Phaneuf has a limited NMC so if Nonis is talking to him he probably knows he's on Phaneuf's short list to begin with.

I don't think the return on Phaneuf will be nearly as good as some people think it will be, proven by the LA and now detroit rumored deals. Looks like nonis wants a high pick or high level prospect back, and I just don't see that happening. I think at best you get a Weiss type contract back (not worth his contract, but money coming off the books earler) and a 2nd-3rd and/or maybe a prospect, but not a teams top prospect. The problem is if Nonis doesn't get something big back in return for his captain and guy he just signed to a 7 year deal, I don't see how he's around for the rebuild, if Shanny hasn't already decided that he won't be.

 

[Cor]

Is There Any Reason Why Nonis Should Be Given a Second Chance To Build The Leafs?

So, me and my bud are having an intense debate.

(This is an extremely condensed "coles notes" of the actual coversation)

He believes that Shanahan has evaluated Nonis, thinks he is the guy, surrounded him with a top flight management group (Dubas, Hunter, Prindholm) and Nonis will be the guy to tear it down, and rebuild it.

I said, that Nonis hasn't shown me any reason why, after 8 years, he should be given another chance to build this team. Nonis was never going to be fired until this summer, and that Shanahan didn't finish his evaluation until February when he got permission from the board to tear it down. Too hard to fire/hire a GM in February, weeks from the deadline

He said bringing in a new GM, weeks from the biggest draft in franchise history, in which we will likely be trading the majority of our core, and drafting a player that will be a center piece of our team, would be idiotic.

So, my question, which he couldn't answer at all, what reason is there to give Nonis another shot at building the Maple Leafs?

 

[gamer1035]

None.

 

[diceman934]

So, me and my bud are having an intense debate.

(This is an extremely condensed "coles notes" of the actual coversation)

He believes that Shanahan has evaluated Nonis, thinks he is the guy, surrounded him with a top flight management group (Dubas, Hunter, Prindholm) and Nonis will be the guy to tear it down, and rebuild it.

I said, that Nonis hasn't shown me any reason why, after 8 years, he should be given another chance to build this team. Nonis was never going to be fired until this summer, and that Shanahan didn't finish his evaluation until February when he got permission from the board to tear it down. Too hard to fire/hire a GM in February, weeks from the deadline

He said bringing in a new GM, weeks from the biggest draft in franchise history, in which we will likely be trading the majority of our core, and drafting a player that will be a center piece of our team, would be idiotic.

So, my question, which he couldn't answer at all, what reason is there to give Nonis another shot at building the Maple Leafs?

First let me say I do not want Nonis as our GM moving forward as I want to get rid of all of Burke's people.

One reason for him to stay is easy.....he was simply playing the hand that Burke dealt him.

 

[FriedEgg]

$25 million that mlse has to pay to Horton is a big reason he won't get a second chance. I know my boss wouldn't keep me around if I cost him that kind of cash.

 

[Mystifo]

So, me and my bud are having an intense debate.

(This is an extremely condensed "coles notes" of the actual coversation)

He believes that Shanahan has evaluated Nonis, thinks he is the guy, surrounded him with a top flight management group (Dubas, Hunter, Prindholm) and Nonis will be the guy to tear it down, and rebuild it.

I said, that Nonis hasn't shown me any reason why, after 8 years, he should be given another chance to build this team. Nonis was never going to be fired until this summer, and that Shanahan didn't finish his evaluation until February when he got permission from the board to tear it down. Too hard to fire/hire a GM in February, weeks from the deadline

He said bringing in a new GM, weeks from the biggest draft in franchise history, in which we will likely be trading the majority of our core, and drafting a player that will be a center piece of our team, would be idiotic.

So, my question, which he couldn't answer at all, what reason is there to give Nonis another shot at building the Maple Leafs?

The only two valid reasons I can think of is his track record with other franchises in building via a draft and patience I.E his time in Vancouver and Anaheim. (Granted it was with Burke.)

second being keeping him around for as long as possible is just a get out of jail free when someone goes wrong. Buys Shanny I guess a fall man when things get bloody. Like for instance say the Dion trade goes down and we get nothing worth while in return even though it was Shanny's idea to trade him for said return. If the reaction from the public is an outcry then Shanny can defer the blame to Nonis and walk away scott free from his actual blunder.


(Side note I really do believe that Shanny and Nonis have a good friendship/relationship so he could be keeping him for friendship sake. Not a good ideal though.)

That being said I am on the fence on if I would keep him around. I really don't know enough about what was Nonis's dealings and what was not.

 

[CelticDruid]

First let me say I do not want Nonis as our GM moving forward as I want to get rid of all of Burke's people.

One reason for him to stay is easy.....he was simply playing the hand that Burke dealt him.

Nonis ,did try and persuade Burke not to do the Kessel trade .

 

[Smif]

How do you bring in a new GM but not let him choose his own management team? A new GM would want to bring in his own guys but that's what Shanahan just changed last summer. Nonis does all tje grunt work,and is a good soldier, but Shanahan has the final say and that's why I think Nonis will stay.