GM Jim Benning Discussion Pt. III

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Rotting Corpse*

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Yeah. But if I think 10 moves are bad and call the guy "dumb" for making them… but 5 of them end up working out... plus the team exceeds expectations… it's probably going to slow me down.

The team did exceed my expectations--I will grant you that.

But where would this team be if Miller hadn't gotten hurt and Lack carried us with a .929 Save% the rest of the season? I don't know. Since my biggest criticism of Benning was that he wasted 6M on a redundant goalie and misread our team needs, forgive me if us making the playoffs when said goalie misses half the year doesn't quite absolve it for me.
 

Scurr

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Got a link? And even if one person said that, it certainly wasn't a sentiment shared by many people. Bonino's production this year is pretty much spot on to what people who were less optimistic about him predicted.

I had a long drawn out corsi argument where I tried to show that he could play better competition and tougher zone starts with better quality teammates. I was met with resistance at every turn. All the "experts" had at me. He was a "worse Santorelli" at best and a "replacement level" player at worst.

Also, people thought he would get 40pts but not the way he did. Nobody gave him credit for being a good even strength producer.
 

ProstheticConscience

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The Dorsett deal was too much and too long imho, but I can understand why they'd want him around. His battle level, work ethic, willingness to jump in to fight anyone to stand up for a teammate, okay sure. This is something I'd want the young guys to pick up.

Sbisa deal? That one has me completely at a loss. I just don't understand what JB could be thinking if it we lose Weber over this. Weber >>>>>>>>> Sbisa so badly it's just not funny. You don't even need to pull out advanced stats to make this argument either. Just watch the games. The amount of time Sbisa spends flailing away in his own zone throwing pucks away and losing board battles is simply awe-inspiring. He's not always horrible, I'll give him that but there's no way I'd eat up long term cap space for him over Weber or even Stanton, and Stanton has been largely crap this season as well.

The Sbisa deal is so far the only real "WTF are you doing?!" move JB's made imho. The rest, you can see a clear pattern: shore up goaltending, add youngish depth guys from organizations where they're buried behind depth to give us young prospects we might have had if our drafting hadn't been terrible, clear out miscreants ASAP. I can get behind that. Sbisa's the first real big trouble spot.
 

Domecile

Opinion != Fact
Jul 9, 2014
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Hasn't even finished his first season as GM and there's this much hate.

Welcome to beautiful british columbia
 

Rotting Corpse*

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I like the players he likes. The only one I don't get is Sbisa… but that alone isn't going to kill this teams chances.

No, it's not, but when you have 13M tied up in Sbisa/Dorsett/Miller, that's going to hurt. We are pretty tight against the cap already and I don't see us being able to replace Matthias/Richardson without dumping somebody like Hamhuis or really leaning hard on rookies.

I had said during the season that my evaluation of Benning was going to lean pretty heavy on what he does with Sbisa. If he'd admit to making a mistake there and cut him loose, I would have been pretty impressed. If he qualified him, I would have been disappointed. Benning actually did something I hadn't even considered which was giving him a 3-year deal above his QO before the season even ended. That ... really makes me worry about his decision making process, to be quite honest, and makes me fell like it's much less likely that he'll try to move Miller. Given recent events it seems likely that he'll deal Lack and Kassian and try to build up his own core by re-signing Vey, putting Virtanen in as soon as possible, etc.

Maybe that's an overreach and maybe he'll prove me wrong, but the Sbisa contract (and to a lesser extent, the Dorsett contract,) has me questioning his motives.
 

Huggy

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Beartchi and virtanen are replacing matthias and richardson.

This isnt hard. We arnt going to use cap space to replace guys that dont fit our style in the first place.

Virtanen and baertchi play the same game. And linden vey isnt going anywhere.

Expect a kassian trade and a forward grp like this

Sedin sedin burr
baertchi bonino vrbata
kenins horvat hansen
higgins vey dorsett
virtanen
 
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MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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He was on the ice for the 7th most GA of any defenseman in the NHL in 2015 despite playing far fewer minutes than most of the guys around him.

... while playing for a better team.

Do you happen to have EN goal data on Sbisa? My gut feeling is that he's a -15 or so when you take out empty netters, but I can't find the data.

You haven't been wrong about anything regarding Benning? It's hard to remember all the conversations but it feels like there has been a group against every move and they haven't all been bad.

"should have traded Edler!"

"Bonino is replacement level -a worse Santorelli!"

"Terrible value in the Kesler deal!"

"This defence cannot withstand any injuries! They'll be screwed!"

"This team will be lucky to be a bubble team and will never get past the first round"

Some examples. So if you've been "right" about everything, cool, but not everybody has been and very few have owned up to anything. They'll just keep *****ing about every move and saying "I told you so!" every time one doesn't work out.

Quit making stuff up.

The consensus on Bonino was that he was a solid player on a good contract who would help here, but also that he was a fairly lateral move from a player we were giving away for nothing in Santorelli. Which has proven to be pretty much exactly correct.

The criticism was never of Bonino, it was of the fact that he was targeted over players who better fit our needs, especially skill defenders, which the Ducks had coming out of their ears.

And this team *is* a bubble team. And we don't know what happens in the playoffs yet.
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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Beartchi and virtanen are replacing matthias and richardson.

This isnt hard. We arnt going to use cap space to replace guys that dont fit our style in the first place.

Virtanen and baertchi play the same game. And linden vey isnt going anywhere.

Expect a kassian trade and a forward grp like this

Sedin sedin burr
baertchi bonino vrbata
kenins horvat hansen
higgins vey dorsett
virtanen
I think this is pretty close......Zack will probably be dangled at the draft along with Weber and Miller/Markstrom. I'm hoping they keep him and he comes in to camp in great shape ready to work his tail off. Vrbata and Burrows need replacing in the top 6 sooner than later.

Defense will probably be:
Edler Tanev
Hamhuis Corrado
Sbisa Bieksa
Stanton Clendening
 

Huggy

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Jul 22, 2014
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I think this is pretty close......Zack will probably be dangled at the draft along with Weber and Miller/Markstrom. I'm hoping they keep him and he comes in to camp in great shape ready to work his tail off. Vrbata and Burrows need replacing in the top 6 sooner than later.

Defense will probably be:
Edler Tanev
Hamhuis Corrado
Sbisa Bieksa
Stanton Clendening

Personally


Id love to package, kassian 1st, and markstorm. For a really high pick like 10th
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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... while playing for a better team.

Do you happen to have EN goal data on Sbisa? My gut feeling is that he's a -15 or so when you take out empty netters, but I can't find the data.



Quit making stuff up.

The consensus on Bonino was that he was a solid player on a good contract who would help here, but also that he was a fairly lateral move from a player we were giving away for nothing in Santorelli. Which has proven to be pretty much exactly correct.

The criticism was never of Bonino, it was of the fact that he was targeted over players who better fit our needs, especially skill defenders, which the Ducks had coming out of their ears.

And this team *is* a bubble team. And we don't know what happens in the playoffs yet.
What do you think we should have got?
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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No, it's not, but when you have 13M tied up in Sbisa/Dorsett/Miller, that's going to hurt. We are pretty tight against the cap already and I don't see us being able to replace Matthias/Richardson without dumping somebody like Hamhuis or really leaning hard on rookies.

I had said during the season that my evaluation of Benning was going to lean pretty heavy on what he does with Sbisa. If he'd admit to making a mistake there and cut him loose, I would have been pretty impressed. If he qualified him, I would have been disappointed. Benning actually did something I hadn't even considered which was giving him a 3-year deal above his QO before the season even ended. That ... really makes me worry about his decision making process, to be quite honest, and makes me fell like it's much less likely that he'll try to move Miller. Given recent events it seems likely that he'll deal Lack and Kassian and try to build up his own core by re-signing Vey, putting Virtanen in as soon as possible, etc.

Maybe that's an overreach and maybe he'll prove me wrong, but the Sbisa contract (and to a lesser extent, the Dorsett contract,) has me questioning his motives.
Who do you think he should have signed and for how much?
 

Barney Gumble

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Jan 2, 2007
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Who do you think he should have signed and for how much?
Just give Sbisa his "QO". He doesn't like it? Tough. Left side D are hardly that difficult to find for that "QO". If he improves next season - then give him a longer term deal. The same treatment he gave Tanev this past off-season.
 

Ernie

Registered User
Aug 3, 2004
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And this team *is* a bubble team. And we don't know what happens in the playoffs yet.

Yeah, the Canucks have benefited from being in the weakest division by far.

I wish we still had that 2011 team now. Definitely the easiest path to the Conference Finals in recent memory.
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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Just give Sbisa his "QO". He doesn't like it? Tough. Left side D are hardly that difficult to find for that "QO". If he improves next season - then give him a longer term deal. The same treatment he gave Tanev this past off-season.
I was wondering about all our free agents.....I agree he should have waited. The timing was worse than the money IMO.
 

TheWanderer

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Nov 15, 2013
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Trading Miller is the only way to redeem the Sbisa signing. If he does that, I can live with the Dorsett signing.
 

sting101

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Feb 8, 2012
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Yeah, the Canucks have benefited from being in the weakest division by far.

I wish we still had that 2011 team now. Definitely the easiest path to the Conference Finals in recent memory.
This changes year to year. Last year we played in the toughest
 

LeftCoast

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Aug 1, 2006
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Who do you think he should have signed and for how much?

I'm less critical, but Jonas Hiller was available at the time and CGY got him for 2 years, $4.5M per. All round a better option.

That said, it's hard to argue with the rest of what Benning has done. Signing Vrbata was his best move. While I was skeptical at first, it appears he got fair value in the Kesler deal.

I would argue that if he hadn't have spent $6M on Miller, he could have re-signed Santorelli - who has defensive deficiencies, would have been an upgrade on Linden Vey. But Benning bet on the younger player having more upside.

Sbisa has been okay and has steadily improved over the year.

I like Dorsett, but I would not have signed him for 4 years. He plays a role where durability is a concern.

Baertschi for a 2nd round pick and Adam Clendening for Gustav Forsling were both moves designed to fill age in our prospect pool. Good value in both cases.

He ran an excellent draft. Can't really argue with any of his selections. Getting Virtanen, McCann and Demko was great.

My only remaining concern with Benning is how much he may be in love with the players that he brought in. We see signs of this in the contracts he gave Dorsett and Sbisa and in the signing of Miller, whom he had drafted in Buffalo. If he holds onto Miller over Lack I (and most of the fan base) will be rightfully upset. In the Kesler deal, Benning was pragmatic enough to make the best of a bad hand, even though dealing Kesler quickly mean perhaps accepting lesser value. I hope he takes the same path with Miller. It's going to be hard to trade a 34 year old goalie with 2 and $12M remaining on his contract. I also have concerns about how he might handle Kassian in the off season.
 
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