GM Benning the key to Canucks record

[Scurr]

The resurgence is more due to axing Tortorella and removing cancers Luongo and Kesler than anything that was added really. The biggest difference is the Sedins looking much better, Burrows playing alright, Hansen going back to normal and maybe most importantly, Edler going from a massive liability to one of the teams best players.

Tortorella took the players he had and put them in terrible positions. Edler with Garrison on a shut down unit? Especially terrible considering they proved they couldn't play together and the fact that Tanev and Hamhuis were also on the roster.

We're also starting to see the additions cool of significantly now that they have settled in. Vrbata has been a great addition. Bonino is about what you'd expect, as are Sbisa and Dorsett. Miller has been passable, but I'd hope for more from a 6 million dollar goaltender.

Throwing away Garrison (much like Edler and co, it shouldn't be a surprise he would bounce back post Tortorella) and Santorelli were terrible decisions. Not realizing what they had in Tanev was another error which may end up costing them quite a bit in the offseason now.

We'll see how the team ends up at the end of the season. I question whether Miller was worth his contract and whether neglecting to add defensive depth will end up biting the team in the end.

I'm not giving Benning credit for the resurgence of players that were already here... though I'm sure glad he moved Garrison instead of Edler like a lot were suggesting.

Sbisa is who Canuck fan thought he was? ********. That's not even worth discussing. A complete farce.

Bonino is what you'd expect? I may have to go re-read that thread. My memory must be terrible.

Dorsett is what was expected? I spent the offseason in the twilight zone I guess.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I'm not giving Benning credit for the resurgence of players that were already here... though I'm sure glad he moved Garrison instead of Edler like a lot were suggesting.

Sbisa is who Canuck fan thought he was? ********. That's not even worth discussing. A complete farce.

Bonino is what you'd expect? I may have to go re-read that thread. My memory must be terrible.

Dorsett is what was expected? I spent the offseason in the twilight zone I guess.

I think youre mistaking the assessment of who Bonino was with the value calculation of the trade. No one thought Bonino was a scrub, the question was a matter of trade value.

 

[Lundface*]

I'm not giving Benning credit for the resurgence of players that were already here... though I'm sure glad he moved Garrison instead of Edler like a lot were suggesting.

Sbisa is who Canuck fan thought he was? ********. That's not even worth discussing. A complete farce.

Bonino is what you'd expect? I may have to go re-read that thread. My memory must be terrible.

Dorsett is what was expected? I spent the offseason in the twilight zone I guess.

People were suggesting Edler due to his trade value being higher. You won't find many people that would have been happy throwing him away for a 2nd round pick.

Sbisa has been midly better than anticipated. It all depends on what you think he's been able to due. Other than the odd massive hit (which is nice) he's also had issues reading he play and has turned the puck over hilariously at times. He has been passable as a patch up top 4 guy, but we're starting to again see him come down to earth the past week or so.

If Dorsett was getting the Weise treatment and producing this much, he'd be a revelation. People didn't like trading him for a 3rd (especially when all Garrison could muster was a 2nd) but I don't recall many people bashing him. He's performed well, but he's also been put in a pretty good position. Tons of minutes, against weak competition, with Hansen on his side is pretty good for a career 4th liner.

Give it time. We're starting to see who these players are more as the season moves along. I'll wait to see the results at the end of the year before pretending Benning has performed some massive overhaul.

PS I was against Gillis at the start, especially given how he came in. But the results turned me over. Seeing what he did with capspace gave me confidence in him. I'll give Benning the same opportunity, but so far the team is what I expected them to be even last season...4-8 in the West.

 

[Scurr]

I think youre mistaking the assessment of who Bonino was with the value calculation of the trade. No one thought Bonino was a scrub, the question was a matter of trade value.

They go hand in hand. Same with Sbisa. We're getting a poor possession player that leeches his points and a cap dump. The value is terrible. That's what was argued.

If we're getting a neutral corsi performer that produces even strength points and a good bottom pairing defender that's passable in the top 4... the value looks a little different.

 

[Scurr]

People were suggesting Edler due to his trade value being higher. You won't find many people that would have been happy throwing him away for a 2nd round pick.

Every contract with term was undervalued last offseason because of the uncertainty of the cap. They moved the right player.

Sbisa has been midly better than anticipated. It all depends on what you think he's been able to due. Other than the odd massive hit (which is nice) he's also had issues reading he play and has turned the puck over hilariously at times. He has been passable as a patch up top 4 guy, but we're starting to again see him come down to earth the past week or so.

There is miles between terrible_cap_dump and good_bottom_pairing_defender. He's been that. At least. Have they come down to earth or were they tired at the end of a long road trip? I guess we'll see.

If Dorsett was getting the Weise treatment and producing this much, he'd be a revelation. People didn't like trading him for a 3rd (especially when all Garrison could muster was a 2nd) but I don't recall many people bashing him. He's performed well, but he's also been put in a pretty good position. Tons of minutes, against weak competition, with Hansen on his side is pretty good for a career 4th liner.

Dorsett is a good hockey player. I didn't have much luck arguing that in the offseason.

Give it time. We're starting to see who these players are more as the season moves along. I'll wait to see the results at the end of the year before pretending Benning has performed some massive overhaul.

PS I was against Gillis at the start, especially given how he came in. But the results turned me over. Seeing what he did with capspace gave me confidence in him. I'll give Benning the same opportunity, but so far the team is what I expected them to be even last season...4-8 in the West.

I'm ready to call Bonino, Vey, Dorsett and Sbisa good additions. At worst they've rehabbed Sbisa into an asset. If he was a cap dump in the offseason... he's certainly worth something now. I really like the other three. Key additions to a retool imo. I guess we'll see.

 

[RandV]

Must have been the silent majority? Whatever

I argued for months that these guys might be players this offseason and was met with an argument at every turn. If you agreed with me… you were definitely in the minority.

*I should have said the consensus of fans on this board. I assume the reaction was the same everywhere…

I'm not really agreeing with you, just talking about a matter of perspective. If you want to get argumentative with it there's always going to be people who think differently than you on here willing to engage, I'd guess you're perspective is rather slanted by that. My impression coming more casually in and out was a bit more level.

Actually it was probably a bit confusing because about half the fanbase had been pessimistic for a long while and very vocal about firing Gillis, so when it actually happened many were pretty damned happy and ready to get out the pom poms to cheer on the new guy. Meanwhile the former Gillis supporters who tended to be more optimistic didn't like how it all went down and questioned/criticized some of the moves Benning was making, so now they look like the pessimistic ones.

 

[Scurr]

I'm not really agreeing with you, just talking about a matter of perspective. If you want to get argumentative with it there's always going to be people who think differently than you on here willing to engage, I'd guess you're perspective is rather slanted by that. My impression coming more casually in and out was a bit more level.

I had no reason to defend Benning or his moves. I didn't know the players as well and admitted as much. I was defending the possibility the moves could work out and Benning's sanity. Seems silly now…

Actually it was probably a bit confusing because about half the fanbase had been pessimistic for a long while and very vocal about firing Gillis, so when it actually happened many were pretty damned happy and ready to get out the pom poms to cheer on the new guy. Meanwhile the former Gillis supporters who tended to be more optimistic didn't like how it all went down and questioned/criticized some of the moves Benning was making, so now they look like the pessimistic ones.

I didn't see it like this. Gillis supporters are still supporting Gillis. The people that wanted him fired largely wanted to tank… so they didn't like Benning's moves, either. How many people in this thread are willing to give him any credit? Doesn't that say something?

 

[Barney Gumble]

I didn't see it like this. Gillis supporters are still supporting Gillis. The people that wanted him fired largely wanted to tank… so they didn't like Benning's moves, either. How many people in this thread are willing to give him any credit? Doesn't that say something?

Call me the minority of the minority.

I liked the Gillis regime overall but thought it was probably best for him to move on given what happened last season (has to take the blame for the Torts hire no matter how much - if any - pressure was made "upstairs"). As for Benning? As I've said, I've liked his moves/trades overall though I might have question some of the moves he's made (nobody is perfect afterall - especially myself).

 

[Scurr]

Call me the minority of the minority.

I liked the Gillis regime overall but thought it was probably best for him to move on given what happened last season (has to take the blame for the Torts hire no matter how much - if any - pressure was made "upstairs"). As for Benning? As I've said, I've liked his moves/trades overall though I might have question some of the moves he's made (nobody is perfect afterall - especially myself).

I agree with all of that. I'm just giving people a hard time for continuing to justify their earlier position by not offering any credit to Benning. He deserves some credit. That is all.

 

[RandV]

I didn't see it like this. Gillis supporters are still supporting Gillis. The people that wanted him fired largely wanted to tank… so they didn't like Benning's moves, either. How many people in this thread are willing to give him any credit? Doesn't that say something?

Just a little perspective here, this is a thread titled: "Sportsnet: GM Benning the key to the Canucks record"

For myself at least it's not about whether I want to give Benning credit or not but more about whether this team really just had a poorly coached outlier season last year and now with a small retool we're back to where we should be regardless of who's running the team. Benning is supposed to be a draft guy, so I'm reserving more of a long term judgement to see how he revamps the team there. That's a legit criticism for Gillis, while he did a good job revamping our OHL scouts he addressed the poor WHL and QJMHL scouting by just ignoring them. Also got a little too cute with the strategy of taking overagers in the second round.

To put it in another perspective, consider when Gillis took over for Nonis. At the time, the anticipated game plan for Nonis was that he would:

Resign the Sedins
Resign Naslund & Morrison
Sign Fabian Brunnstrom

And more or less run with that, adding a few more depth pieces. That team was missing a lot of depth so you had a blanker state to work with, Gillis stepped in and took a much different approach and got rewarded for it.

This summer though? Kesler to Anaheim or Pittsburgh was going to happen and those two were in the driver seat, we had cap space for one of the available UFA scorers and Vrbata wanted to play with the Sedins, and we needed a new head coach and the top due candidate turned down the Pittsburgh job and chose us instead.

So it's all speculative opinion but the difference I see between Gillis flavour vs Benning flavour is Santorelli, Garrison, and Lack vs Vey, Dorsett, and Miller. So not a whole lot.

 

[Scurr]

Just a little perspective here, this is a thread titled: "Sportsnet: GM Benning the key to the Canucks record"

For myself at least it's not about whether I want to give Benning credit or not but more about whether this team really just had a poorly coached outlier season last year and now with a small retool we're back to where we should be regardless of who's running the team. Benning is supposed to be a draft guy, so I'm reserving more of a long term judgement to see how he revamps the team there. That's a legit criticism for Gillis, while he did a good job revamping our OHL scouts he addressed the poor WHL and QJMHL scouting by just ignoring them. Also got a little too cute with the strategy of taking overagers in the second round.

To put it in another perspective, consider when Gillis took over for Nonis. At the time, the anticipated game plan for Nonis was that he would:

Resign the Sedins
Resign Naslund & Morrison
Sign Fabian Brunnstrom

And more or less run with that, adding a few more depth pieces. That team was missing a lot of depth so you had a blanker state to work with, Gillis stepped in and took a much different approach and got rewarded for it.

This summer though? Kesler to Anaheim or Pittsburgh was going to happen and those two were in the driver seat, we had cap space for one of the available UFA scorers and Vrbata wanted to play with the Sedins, and we needed a new head coach and the top due candidate turned down the Pittsburgh job and chose us instead.

So it's all speculative opinion but the difference I see between Gillis flavour vs Benning flavour is Santorelli, Garrison, and Lack vs Vey, Dorsett, and Miller. So not a whole lot.

Gillis could have re-signed Santorelli and didn't. He could have offered him term in the offseason when no other GM in the league was willing to... that's the kind of speculation that reeks of justification on your part.

 

[me2]

Gillis could have re-signed Santorelli and didn't. He could have offered him term in the offseason when no other GM in the league was willing to... that's the kind of speculation that reeks of justification on your part.

Gillis was fired April 8. What off season?

Santo would look awesome on this team. Benning cocked up.

 

[Scurr]

Gillis was fired April 8. What off season?

Santo would look awesome on this team. Benning cocked up.

He could have re-signed him during the season. He didn't. He might have offered Santorelli term in the offseason had he not been fired... but he would have been the only GM in the league willing to do so. Convenient for some to give him credit for the move, though.

 

[MS]

I agree with all of that. I'm just giving people a hard time for continuing to justify their earlier position by not offering any credit to Benning. He deserves some credit. That is all.

He definitely deserves some credit. The coach he brought in seems to be a good fit for this group, and the Vrbata and Dorsett moved have been very good.

This team was always going to bounce back to a significant extent. Last year was an outlier 40-game segment caused by a coaching disaster and total dressing-room collapse. We could have brought Milbury in as GM and we'd have seen a rebound with a fresh start minus Kesler, Luongo, and Tortorella.

My biggest problem is the amount of mis-evaluations on the existing roster. Seemed to be change for the sake of change without really realizing what we had:

- mis-evaluation of Lack leads to the nightmare Miller contract. Spent $6 million for a lateral move in net while burying a potential building block.

- giving Garrison away for nothing. Oops. Predictably awful move as Garrison has rebounded into the same player he was before the 2nd half of last season.

- not realizing what we had in Santorelli. Leads to the spending of significant assets on lateral moves for Bonino and Vey.

- under- estimating Chris Tanev. Sounds like we were offering him up in a deal for the #1 pick, then lowballed him in contract negotiations which will cost us $millions next summer.

It's one thing to blow your pro scouting on players from other teams. It's another to blow it and have such a poor grasp on your own squad.

 

[vancityluongo]

It's one thing to blow your pro scouting on players from other teams. It's another to blow it and have such a poor grasp on your own squad.

Not exactly surprising from a team that can't evaluate players in their own backyard (WHL), but yeah, agreed.

Benning has made some good moves, and shouldn't get things like the Vrbata signing dismissed even though they fell into his lap. But this team has hardly been overhauled from a basement dweller to a cup contender, and he's made some brutal moves too.

 

[RandV]

Gillis could have re-signed Santorelli and didn't. He could have offered him term in the offseason when no other GM in the league was willing to... that's the kind of speculation that reeks of justification on your part.

While Santorelli wanted to stay here it was perfectly understandable for him use his free agent rights to look for term. So he looked but didn't find it, at which point he could have taken a 1 year deal from Vancouver except Benning had already acquired Vey and Dorsett and tied up the cap with Miller.

That's the key point for me, I don't think Gillis left in charge would have acquired any of those players so there would be space to resign Santorelli. It's all just speculation at this point but it's a reasonable assumption.

It's like MS said. Benning is labeled as a 'talent evaluator', someone who uses the eyeball test, yet how wide a view can one man have? Really felt like he just listened to the alarmist 'what have you done lately for me' reporting on some players and never had a proper evaluation on some of our players.

 

[oceanchild]

He could have re-signed him during the season. He didn't. He might have offered Santorelli term in the offseason had he not been fired... but he would have been the only GM in the league willing to do so. Convenient for some to give him credit for the move, though.

Unless he was a lame duck GM that wasn't able to sign him under owners orders.

I bet gillis would have gotten so mad he would have gone on the radio and ranted about how the team was moving away from his vision.

Just a thought

 

[Drop the Sopel]

- not realizing what we had in Santorelli. Leads to the spending of significant assets on lateral moves for Bonino and Vey.

That's an odd way to judge the Bonino and Vey acquisitions. As if this team doesn't need more young talent moving forward if a 30 year old Mike Santorelli was still in the mix...

Coming into this season the Canucks had a complete and utter dearth of young talent, both on the team and at the AHL level. In no way, shape or form should a veteran stop management from adding younger pieces to the mix IMO. These are players we hope are still contributing 5-7 years from now - something you would never expect of Mike Santorelli.

For me, the biggest disappointment thus far has been the play of the young guys previous management brought in. I was expecting more from the young pro's likes Kassian, Stanton, Shinkaruk, Jensen, Gaunce etc... The fact none of these guys have exceeded expectations is a bit concerning - as these were the guys we needed to take steps forward to push for roster spots or take significant roles in the near future. And the less than stellar play of these guys makes Bonino and Vey that much more crucial going forward.

 

[opendoor]

Santorelli was 28 years old yesterday; calling him a 30 year old is a bit much. The difference in age between him and Bonino is 2.5 years. It's a difference for sure, but not all that significant of one when you're talking about guys in their mid to late 20s on short term deals.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Santorelli was 28 years old yesterday; calling him a 30 year old is a bit much. The difference in age between him and Bonino is 2.5 years. It's a difference for sure, but not all that significant of one when you're talking about guys in their mid to late 20s on short term deals.

Oops, Santorelli is 29, not 30. You don't think the 2.5 year difference is significant, but accidentally refering to a 29 year old as a 30 year old is a 'bit much'? You also left out the 23 year old Linden Vey - which represents half of the duo I alluded to.

Again, I just don't see how refusing to give Santorelli the term he was after makes the Bonino acquisition look any less outstanding right now. Nor does a veteran leaving make it a poor move to target a young, skilled forward like Vey IMO.

The Canucks needed to get younger and more skilled up front this offseason and those 2 acquisitions helped accomplish both of those goals. Losing out on Santo in free agency doesn't change that.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Oops, Santorelli is 29, not 30. You don't think the 2.5 year difference is significant, but accidentally refering to a 29 year old as a 30 year old is a 'bit much'? You also left out the 23 year old Linden Vey - which represents half of the duo I alluded to.

Again, I just don't see how refusing to give Santorelli the term he was after makes the Bonino acquisition look any less outstanding right now. Nor does a veteran leaving make it a poor move to target a young, skilled forward like Vey IMO.

The Canucks needed to get younger and more skilled up front this offseason and those 2 acquisitions helped accomplish both of those goals. Losing out on Santo in free agency doesn't change that.

Players like Vey are going to be made available rather easily. Look no further than Erixon and Morin. Santorelli was a diamond in the rough who was young enough to still be a difference maker had the re-tool taken longer than anticipate. I do not easily question the ideology of getting younger, just the execution. Youth should push veteran players out of the lineup, not be gifted spots on the hopes they prefer better. Right now what are our biggest needs? Another quality forward and a defenseman. We had both and pissed them away.

 

[Scurr]

He definitely deserves some credit. The coach he brought in seems to be a good fit for this group, and the Vrbata and Dorsett moved have been very good.

This team was always going to bounce back to a significant extent. Last year was an outlier 40-game segment caused by a coaching disaster and total dressing-room collapse. We could have brought Milbury in as GM and we'd have seen a rebound with a fresh start minus Kesler, Luongo, and Tortorella.

My biggest problem is the amount of mis-evaluations on the existing roster. Seemed to be change for the sake of change without really realizing what we had:

- mis-evaluation of Lack leads to the nightmare Miller contract. Spent $6 million for a lateral move in net while burying a potential building block.

- giving Garrison away for nothing. Oops. Predictably awful move as Garrison has rebounded into the same player he was before the 2nd half of last season.

- not realizing what we had in Santorelli. Leads to the spending of significant assets on lateral moves for Bonino and Vey.

- under- estimating Chris Tanev. Sounds like we were offering him up in a deal for the #1 pick, then lowballed him in contract negotiations which will cost us $millions next summer.

It's one thing to blow your pro scouting on players from other teams. It's another to blow it and have such a poor grasp on your own squad.

Where was all this talk about a rebound in the offseason? All I heard was doom and gloom. More justification imo. And on and on.

 

[Scurr]

Players like Vey are going to be made available rather easily. Look no further than Erixon and Morin. Santorelli was a diamond in the rough who was young enough to still be a difference maker had the re-tool taken longer than anticipate. I do not easily question the ideology of getting younger, just the execution. Youth should push veteran players out of the lineup, not be gifted spots on the hopes they prefer better. Right now what are our biggest needs? Another quality forward and a defenseman. We had both and pissed them away.

You can always find vets that are better than young players. That's how you end with an old team, though.

 

[arsmaster*]

Oops, Santorelli is 29, not 30. You don't think the 2.5 year difference is significant, but accidentally refering to a 29 year old as a 30 year old is a 'bit much'? You also left out the 23 year old Linden Vey - which represents half of the duo I alluded to.

Again, I just don't see how refusing to give Santorelli the term he was after makes the Bonino acquisition look any less outstanding right now. Nor does a veteran leaving make it a poor move to target a young, skilled forward like Vey IMO.

The Canucks needed to get younger and more skilled up front this offseason and those 2 acquisitions helped accomplish both of those goals. Losing out on Santo in free agency doesn't change that.

You're still on this bonino is outstanding kick.

He's been terrible along with his linemates for the last dozen or so games. Sorry I won't be mislead by his 3 assist game against Columbus.

He's serviceable but right now santorelli is the better player.

You've got to stop trotting out age. 28-31 is often a players peak. We can only hope bonino is as good as santorelli is right now in 3 seasons. Now imagine bonino when he loses his step. You know at 30 good defensman turn into Bryan Allen's.

Sbisa is the common denominator in the poor season of Hamhuis and Bieksa IMO. Bieksa has been poor in his own right but I don't see how anyone can watch him and be impressed with anything other than his "tools".

 

[arsmaster*]

You can always find vets that are better than young players. That's how you end with an old team, though.

Nobody is upset with 33 year old vrbata. He's ancient compared to vey and bonino.

I still firmly believe we overpaid for vey.