Post-Game Talk: GM 78: Canucks def. Kings - 2-1 (MOD Warning Post #13)

[canuck4life16]

if Kassian get 3 more point...he have 30 point for this year. I think this is pretty good considering that he playing third line minutes and lack of PP time

 

[a Fool]

if Kassian get 3 more point...he have 30 point for this year. I think this is pretty good considering that he playing third line minutes and lack of PP time

18pts in the last 35 games. ~0.5 P/G that span. Very good improvement after a slow start to the season.

 

[LiquidSnake]

18pts in the last 35 games. ~0.5 P/G that span. Very good improvement after a slow start to the season.

Had a rough start with the suspension and Torts not playing him much if any. Not surprising that's he's better when not playing with offensive studs like Sestito, Weise or Schroeder.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Had a rough start with the suspension and Torts not playing him much if any. Not surprising that's he's better when not playing with offensive studs like Sestito, Weise or Schroeder.

Exactly. Kassians the type of guy who needs to be put in a position where hes leading the line such as playing him with the Sedins.

He doesnt shine as much and struggles to keep up with elite players like Sestito and Weise.


#firetorts

 

[biturbo19]

if Kassian get 3 more point...he have 30 point for this year. I think this is pretty good considering that he playing third line minutes and lack of PP time

That pass tonight to Richardson, that was what i want to see with Kassian. I could care less what number of points he ends up with this year, or what PPG pace he's on to round out the season...but that sort of offensive vision...that might not show up on the stat sheet, but i want to see THAT every night. That's what could potentially make Kassian a legitimate top-6 forward.

 

[Edo]

Shocked that some people still want Tortorella to coach this team past these last 3-4 games. I can't think of a good decision he has made. He's mishandled nearly every player.

Pretty clear that if we do get a new coach, he HAS to be from the Western Conference or somebody who's spent some time here since the teams peak. Somewhat shocked that a guy who has been coaching and in the NHL as long as Tortorella can get into a situation where he's as far as behind as he clearly is/was.

I'm hoping that whoever San Jose face in the first round obliterates them in a 4 game sweep so we can get Mclellan. Best case scenario.

 

[biturbo19]

Shocked that some people still want Tortorella to coach this team past these last 3-4 games. I can't think of a good decision he has made. He's mishandled nearly every player.

Pretty clear that if we do get a new coach, he HAS to be from the Western Conference or somebody who's spent some time here since the teams peak. Somewhat shocked that a guy who has been coaching and in the NHL as long as Tortorella can get into a situation where he's as far as behind as he clearly is/was.

I'm hoping that whoever San Jose face in the first round obliterates them in a 4 game sweep so we can get Mclellan. Best case scenario.

I don't think it has to be a Western Conference experienced guy at all.

It just has to be a guy who isn't a stubborn moron who is incapable of adapting to anything at all ever.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Impressive 2014 by Kassian. Proving my doubts wrong, happy to admit it. We need a player like him, think he's an ideal candidate for a Kesler winger if we keep em.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I agree with you Edonator. I like Torts' attitude, his personality, and his commitment to winning but I'm not sure he is the right fit for this team.

McLellan would be nice, but I'm licking my lips over Stevens of the Kings. The guy has coached a team to Stanley Cup glory and has shown that in Philly he isn't an offensive stifling coach. I think he'd be perfect for the team at this point. But that said the most important attribute to have in a coach is his willingness to analyze the talent he is given and find the right system for that team to play to gain the maximum amount of utility out of that team. That's the coaches job. It always has been and always will be. If a coach can't adapt to what he's got then he'll be out of a job in short order. That's Torts' biggest downfall.

Though I'm sure someone else said the same about Alain Vigneault in 2008 as well.

 

[biturbo19]

I agree with you Edonator. I like Torts' attitude, his personality, and his commitment to winning but I'm not sure he is the right fit for this team.

McLellan would be nice, but I'm licking my lips over Stevens of the Kings. The guy has coached a team to Stanley Cup glory and has shown that in Philly he isn't an offensive stifling coach. I think he'd be perfect for the team at this point. But that said the most important attribute to have in a coach is his willingness to analyze the talent he is given and find the right system for that team to play to gain the maximum amount of utility out of that team. That's the coaches job. It always has been and always will be. If a coach can't adapt to what he's got then he'll be out of a job in short order. That's Torts' biggest downfall.

Though I'm sure someone else said the same about Alain Vigneault in 2008 as well.

The thing with Vigneault, and it was definitely said when Gillis took over...he was a defensive-minded coach all along. But emphasizing defense doesn't at all mean you have to exclude offense and transition play. It's not a black and white thing. Although for Tortorella and his set "system" it really is. The defensive and offensive zone play is entirely disconnected in his philosophy. There is no transition game. It's all in aggressive forecheck at one end, then scurry back and collapse below your own hashmarks defensively and chip it off the wall and then chase it back down to the other end again. It's a completely non-viable NHL system in this day and age. The only way you can win with that system, is by having an outrageous talent advantage on your team, and that literally does not exist in the Cap World, or by having an infinite supply of players with maximum energy to output every single shift of every single game, which also does not exist. It flat out doesn't work, and there's approximately zero possibility of him "adapting" the system to fit the new NHL.

AV by contrast, showed a clear ability to change his style. He still maintained the core principles of his "system", but he ramped it up in a lot of different aspects, and altered the components that did not fit to create the system that took us to the Cup Finals. That was still very much a "defense first" system, as are most successful systems in the NHL. There are few coaches who preach anything else...but Vigneault's philosophy was also congruent with the skillset of our team in generating offensive pressure and a lightning quick transition game that gave teams fits.

Coaches don't change their spots. There's adaptation along the way, but at the core...Torts coaching style does not work, in the Xs and Os, the player management, or even just at the basic level of having his players not hate his guts. He treats his teams like a bunch of Novice players and it just doesn't work with grown ass men doing this job of playing hockey for a living. He doesn't respect his players, and in turn...they don't respect him.

He's a terrible coach. That's the end of the story.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

The thing with Vigneault, and it was definitely said when Gillis took over...he was a defensive-minded coach all along. But emphasizing defense doesn't at all mean you have to exclude offense and transition play. It's not a black and white thing. Although for Tortorella and his set "system" it really is. The defensive and offensive zone play is entirely disconnected in his philosophy. There is no transition game. It's all in aggressive forecheck at one end, then scurry back and collapse below your own hashmarks defensively and chip it off the wall and then chase it back down to the other end again. It's a completely non-viable NHL system in this day and age. The only way you can win with that system, is by having an outrageous talent advantage on your team, and that literally does not exist in the Cap World, or by having an infinite supply of players with maximum energy to output every single shift of every single game, which also does not exist. It flat out doesn't work, and there's approximately zero possibility of him "adapting" the system to fit the new NHL.

AV by contrast, showed a clear ability to change his style. He still maintained the core principles of his "system", but he ramped it up in a lot of different aspects, and altered the components that did not fit to create the system that took us to the Cup Finals. That was still very much a "defense first" system, as are most successful systems in the NHL. There are few coaches who preach anything else...but Vigneault's philosophy was also congruent with the skillset of our team in generating offensive pressure and a lightning quick transition game that gave teams fits.

Coaches don't change their spots. There's adaptation along the way, but at the core...Torts coaching style does not work, in the Xs and Os, the player management, or even just at the basic level of having his players not hate his guts. He treats his teams like a bunch of Novice players and it just doesn't work with grown ass men doing this job of playing hockey for a living. He doesn't respect his players, and in turn...they don't respect him.

He's a terrible coach. That's the end of the story.

Good post and I especially agree with you about the good coaches adapt. But mostly about the entire style of play philosophy, except for one argument. There is no doubt Torts' style leaks into the offensive game (which maybe 80%+ coaches leave completely to the players) is the dump and chase. It's something I've especially noticed over the last 20 games. EVERY line dumps and chases. This is an archaic style, dating back to the 50s and 60s. It's for players for are fast and strong on the puck (re: 3rd and 4th players [re:re: Booth, Kassian, Richardson, Sestito, etc.]) while players who are slower but more skilled (re: Sedins, Burrows, Higgins) have to resort to the same play where essentially to establish zone possession they must dump the puck in, skate like hell to get to the puck and fight like hell to get the puck back.

It's an unattainable system and I don't get how almost (seemingly) nobody in the video room hasn't caught onto it yet. The Sedins aren't gassed because they get 20+ minutes a night, they are gassed because damn near half of that time is getting the puck in the offensive zone and making something of it, instead of already having the puck and making something of it. I can count 4-5 times last night where something good came of patience in the neutral zone and a scoring chance was had (2 or 3 times by the bottom 2 lines). It's sad almost that that's the case but it is. Torts has the right personality, but his philosophy is outdated, sadly enough.

 

[jimmythescot]

It's interesting that Richardson said they were told in the third they had nothing to lose and just go out and have fun.

 

[LiveeviL]

Good post and I especially agree with you about the good coaches adapt. But mostly about the entire style of play philosophy, except for one argument. There is no doubt Torts' style leaks into the offensive game (which maybe 80%+ coaches leave completely to the players) is the dump and chase. It's something I've especially noticed over the last 20 games. EVERY line dumps and chases. This is an archaic style, dating back to the 50s and 60s. It's for players for are fast and strong on the puck (re: 3rd and 4th players [re:re: Booth, Kassian, Richardson, Sestito, etc.]) while players who are slower but more skilled (re: Sedins, Burrows, Higgins) have to resort to the same play where essentially to establish zone possession they must dump the puck in, skate like hell to get to the puck and fight like hell to get the puck back.

It's an unattainable system and I don't get how almost (seemingly) nobody in the video room hasn't caught onto it yet. The Sedins aren't gassed because they get 20+ minutes a night, they are gassed because damn near half of that time is getting the puck in the offensive zone and making something of it, instead of already having the puck and making something of it. I can count 4-5 times last night where something good came of patience in the neutral zone and a scoring chance was had (2 or 3 times by the bottom 2 lines). It's sad almost that that's the case but it is. Torts has the right personality, but his philosophy is outdated, sadly enough.

Pretty much, I have nothing against Torts in style even if I think that a coach with more composure is better. In the end I question Torts ability to make the best of the team (Saying that I question his intelligence is a bit too harsh, but in the need it is aspects of intelligence which are lacking). I do think he made an effort but the result wasn't very good. At last Torts try to match the team; the pro: he is fast thinking and got imagination in an extent which makes him better than AV in those particular areas but not overall as a coach. One might venture to say that Torts is good at the lower tactical level (managing the games themselves) and AV at the higher tactical level (managing the team which he has at his hands).

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I do think he made an effort but the result wasn't very good. At last Torts try to match the team; the pro: he is fast thinking and got imagination in an extent which makes him better than AV in those particular areas but not overall as a coach. One might venture to say that Torts is good at the lower tactical level (managing the games themselves) and AV at the higher tactical level (managing the team which he has at his hands).

Wow. Yes. This last part of that post considerably highlights how I think of the two coaches intuition. Torts has good game sense, but AV has more hockey sense. In the way that AV will die with his big guns playing the PP minutes, whereas if his big guns are playing the way he likes Torts isn't afraid to throw his 3rd liners like Booth, Richardson, or Kassian out there on the PP.

 

[John Belushi]

since when do you get a penalty for wacking your stick on the net.

Quick fired the puck into the corner afterwards in addition to the overhead chop unto the poor defenseless crossbar.

 

[vanuck]

Liking the way Jensen plays, even if he isn't scoring right now. Does the right things to support his D-men and has good instincts for the game IMO. Wasn't hockey sense one of his strengths when drafted?

Notice how a lot of the younger/newer skilled forwards on this team - he, Kass, JS, Dalpe, Santo - favour carry-ins on zone entries. Brings a fresh approach to the team rather than the dump-and-chase game we seem to fall back on at times.

I haven't wanted them to fire Torts, but tonight I saw something very interesting: the Sedins looked like the Sedins. Part of the reason why was that they were carrying the puck over the blue line instead of this ridiculous dump and chase strategy he's been banging on about. Okay sure, both of them were back and presumably healthy enough to play and that's something we haven't have much of this season, but they were doing their thing again instead of what Torts has been trying to make them do and the results speak volumes.

I thought they tried to make a conscious effort to skate the puck in on the attack rather than dump it in. Surprised to see it happen, actually. Not only that but throwing it back to the D in the neutral zone when that wasn't available, only to try again. Was a nice change, and it showed in the possession results (with the obvious caveats notwithstanding of course). Reminds you of the way the Hawks play.

 

[biturbo19]

Liking the way Jensen plays, even if he isn't scoring right now. Does the right things to support his D-men and has good instincts for the game IMO. Wasn't hockey sense one of his strengths when drafted?

Notice how a lot of the younger/newer skilled forwards on this team - he, Kass, JS, Dalpe, Santo - favour carry-ins on zone entries. Brings a fresh approach to the team rather than the dump-and-chase game we seem to fall back on at times.



I thought they tried to make a conscious effort to skate the puck in on the attack rather than dump it in. Surprised to see it happen, actually. Not only that but throwing it back to the D in the neutral zone when that wasn't available, only to try again. Was a nice change, and it showed in the possession results (with the obvious caveats notwithstanding of course). Reminds you of the way the Hawks play.

That 3rd period when it's like they came out and said, 'lol **** torts we're doing it our way' and lo and behold, results. Go figure.

You see the players meeting together, as far away from the bench as they can be. That's not coaching, that's our players doing what they do. So many criticized AV for an "inmates running the asylum" mentality...but frankly, if you have players worth a ****, letting them run things isn't all that terrible. As long as you can put them within the right framework to succeed and have those opportunities. Torts seems to have absolutely no concept of how or when to let the players loose to just do what they do. You still see flashes of what this team can do, and what it could be with a coach who isn't terrible. But we've wasted an entire year of our "window" with this clown Tortorella running the show. And it's going to take at least half of another year to undo all of the damage he's done...just look at how long it took the Rangers to adjust to a real NHL system and break free from the shackles that the screaming idiot Tortorella had bound them with. It literally took the Rangers half a season to undo the damage Tortorella does...and as soon as they did, they started rolling and have been one of the hottest teams in the league. Go figure.

 

[thenextone]

The Sedins looked really good...wonder if its been injuries all along

 

[Rex Banner]

It's interesting that Richardson said they were told in the third they had nothing to lose and just go out and have fun.

Does that mean that Torts kept his mouth shut and just let the players do what they want? And we had probably played the most complete period of the season.

Awesome.

I think Torts wants his team to be like a Swiss army knife. Good at many things, but great at nothing.

 

[LiveeviL]

Does that mean that Torts kept his mouth shut and just let the players do what they want? And we had probably played the most complete period of the season.

Awesome.

I think Torts wants his team to be like a Swiss army knife. Good at many things, but great at nothing.

Or more correct, a Swiss army knife solves every problem when you got no problems, and solves no problems when you actually got them.

E.g.:
"wow I got a saw!",
later: "Now I need a real saw!"

 

[DennisReynolds]

Betamax got his question featured on after hours but got shut down by booth

 

[Defeatist*]

I wanted booth to go more into how he met his fiancee on Twitter. Did she tweet him, hey nice hunting pics, coffee some time? Celebrities are tweeted at by common folk all the time. I wonder what led to him meeting and then dating a random tweeting him.

Never mind. I found the real story and it turns out they didn't meet on Twitter as I found it strange that booth would meet a random Twitter follower.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/02/11/ashley-durham-engaged-to-canuck-david-booth_n_4770538.html

Dancing in the living room. Why?? Because I introduced two amazing people in this world and they just called me to tell me THEY'RE ENGAGED!!

— Alyssa Campanella (@AlyssCampanella) February 11, 2014

 

[The Stig]

Betamax got his question featured on after hours but got shut down by booth

What was it? I missed it.

 

[tc 23]

What was it? I missed it.

 

[Zombotron]

The Sedins looked really good...wonder if its been injuries all along

I think Henrik alluded to "extenuating circumstances" not related to coaching or management in an interview yesterday or the day before that.