Ryuji Yamazaki
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Friedman: GM’s Believe Florida Will Strongly Consider Breaking Up Their Core
- Thread starter Cousin Eddie
- Start date
Yeah, and more given not likely all three 1sts are now, require wait/delayed gratification.
Also does not measure up to my earlier deal only for Barkov, which was along lines of Lindros trade, leaving out only direct $ which is no longer allowed --- a premium/significant piece [Deangelo now, Forsberg then], 2 1st round picks, and several useful assets.
Also had a follow up deal shedding Stralman + long term for Staal at half.
Net saving of 2 deals was over 5m instant cap relief for FL.
Team got younger.
NY got new top pivot.
I get that there is an inclination to not bite the bullet, but idea that Barkov should only be moved if there is somehow an even younger, cheaper version of himself is non sequitur, including as to likelihood of a potential partner moving such other player without significant incentive to do so, which will seriously hurt, if that player exists.
Likewise insistence on a comparable other talent in other position is not real. Johanson for Jones was mulled over for an extended period, despite apparent mutual complementary need, and it is the exception, not the rule. If a club's fans insist to subscribe and surrender to the mentality by the herd that a deal MUST be 1:1, then be prepared to die on that hill.
Deals should not be done on basis of total of players in each side or collectively, but as to overall value --- both production of player and financial reality considerations -- involved.
That constant holds true as the rule, recognized or not by those insisting on small deals only, the isolated exception aside, such as a team dealing a guy to get immediate roster size compliance or cap relief, which would ordinarily have been handled with planning, but an aberration occurs when timing so dictates.
Sweetpotato
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FrolikFan67
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We don’t have anything at center anymore. Trocheck was once one of the best 2nd line centers in the league, then he dropped out big time over the last 2-2.5 years or so. He’s gone, and all we got is Borgstrom in the minors, which we don’t know if he’ll amount to anything. Acciari, who can play both center and wing. Toninato who is a 4th like center at best. Wallmark, who’s preferably a strong 4th but most likely could be the 3rd line center. Haula is a ufa but a 2nd line center at best. If we move Barkov there’s nothing in free agency to fill the void, we’re not in a position to trade for futures, and trading for a top center would cost too much. Trading Barkov doesn’t make any sense right now. Unless it’s a potential 1:1 and it depends for who.
trading Ekblad also makes no sense. Same situation, he’s our only top D, no one could replace him. He just broke 40pt for the first time and that’s getting hardly any pp time (2nd unit, maybe 30-45 sec At most per pp). He’s reliable in his own zone, can consistently clear it out when needed, and solid defensively. Not fast, but knows how to play within his deficiencies. He’s been fantastic, especially the last two years. Yeah he was rough his junior and a little his senior years, but has been great since. This will be the first season he doesn’t break double digit goals, but he’s been fantastic for us in every other way and still broke 40pt for the first time despite the lower goal totals.
huberdeau would be the only one that makes sense to consider trading. But not for futures. Preferably for D. Even for him it really can’t be for “futures” (as in picks or prospects who aren’t ready by next year), the only future type player that I would consider trading him for is a deal with byram.
trading Ekblad also makes no sense. Same situation, he’s our only top D, no one could replace him. He just broke 40pt for the first time and that’s getting hardly any pp time (2nd unit, maybe 30-45 sec At most per pp). He’s reliable in his own zone, can consistently clear it out when needed, and solid defensively. Not fast, but knows how to play within his deficiencies. He’s been fantastic, especially the last two years. Yeah he was rough his junior and a little his senior years, but has been great since. This will be the first season he doesn’t break double digit goals, but he’s been fantastic for us in every other way and still broke 40pt for the first time despite the lower goal totals.
huberdeau would be the only one that makes sense to consider trading. But not for futures. Preferably for D. Even for him it really can’t be for “futures” (as in picks or prospects who aren’t ready by next year), the only future type player that I would consider trading him for is a deal with byram.
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your analysis is good
it overlooks one thing
Panthers have extensive multiple needs and $ constraints
moving even Barkov would surely likely = a huge loss at C esp in the short term
BUT
it could still be an even bigger net plus solving more probs than it creates
FrolikFan67
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It’s possibly, although I’m not sure that that outcome is likely. If it were futures it’d all depend on how those players pan out. Could be great, could be terrible. We don’t know. If they get a center (obviously a less center) and a D, then it depends on how big the drop off is between the two centers and what the gain is we get from the D. Unless it’s a slam dunk trade, then I wouldn’t gamble on it. Trading huberdeau for assets that would put us in a better place is possible and that’s the only route I’d be willing to go between the big three panther players.
biturbo19
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This idea that i'm supposed to verify that i "watch this player" by giving you a series of statistics, is completely and utterly asinine. Blaming a different opinion of the player on a false assumption that i don't watch the player, and demanding that i somehow prove to you that i do watch the player by digging up statistical numbers that have literally nothing to do with watching the player...is completely, fundamentally illogical.
It'd be like me asking you to prove that you watched a movie and think it isn't that good, by looking up an unflattering synopsis or review, and posting it. It just doesn't make sense. What you're asking for, has nothing to do with watching the player, and everything to do with watching statistics.
I just don't like the player as much as you seem to. Making accusations that i'm just "faking" my opinion for no apparent reason based on...apparently nothing??? That's the most fake shit out there. Cut it out imo.
TheImpatientPanther
Registered User
We accept your apology for saying Ekblad isn't a #1 D. Move on with your life now.
The big immediate piece I' sending is Deangelo.
I agree Barkov is worth a lot more, but Deangelo IS significant.
In the 2 deal scenario I also sent you Strome.
Strome is a mere band aid.
But in addition to these 2, are HUGE adds.
Two immediate 2020 1sts AND some useful players.
Plus cap relief.
So my point is, you can go 1 of 2 ways.
You can say, as long as he is willing to stay regardless of whatever other problems exist, I will live and die w/Barkov and I will extend him at top $, prob around 10m/+, to lock him up. I will build on him, and Bob [for better or worse], and I will keep Ekblad or not, but I will develop a top pair core, even if I have to trade Hub to do it. That will be the base of my team going forward.
The other option is to deal Barkov for a huge haul, which addresses many holes, and helps w/getting younger/cheaper if you take my deal. Hubs becomes your 1C, or you flip him if again there is a big enough haul. MIN is looking for pivot, supposedly. Dumba ++ could be highly useful, and add Dumba to Deangelo from my deal, and that is significant [with exp draft, you protect Ekblad, Deangelo, and Dumba, next season work on the LD].
I wouldn't sneer at either the 2 1sts or the youth injection I'm offering, as well as taking Stralman for Staal at half, either.
---------
It seems you prefer option 1.
I respect your right to that.
I only ask you give a sufficiently detailed, extensive enough analysis of the whole picture before choosing that door.
peace out.
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
FrolikFan67
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Tbh I didn’t even see your proposal, I was just speaking in general. But I have no interest really in stroke. Deangelo, yeah, but even then he was drafted in ‘14, just now took off, I wouldn’t gamble Barkov after one great season from deangelo, need a larger sample size. The panthers have had enough picks through the years, we don’t have time to wait for them to develop, we need immediate help. How’s deangelo’s defensive play out of curiosity? I wouldn’t do the deal but I’m wondering if he’s more than just an offensive D.
GrumpyKelly
Registered User
DeAngelo. Barf.
One good year offensively, lets see him doing it several years in a row and then maybe get the conversation started. Depending how his defensive game holds up.
Zero chance him being the centerpiece even if Barkov would ge traded. Which he isn't.
One good year offensively, lets see him doing it several years in a row and then maybe get the conversation started. Depending how his defensive game holds up.
Zero chance him being the centerpiece even if Barkov would ge traded. Which he isn't.
1. Deals are at post 177 of this thread, pg 8.
Go there for full commentary.
2. As and for a short listing of the 2 deals without analysis, they are:
In order to make the transaction wieldy, it is 2 separate deals, technically, however, for all real purposes, it is effectively as if it were a single transaction.
Barkov 5.9 x 3 + FL 2020 2nd, 2020 3rd + Avalanche 2020 3rd
total cap is 5.9
for
Deangelo [0 cap hit expired w/rfa] + NYR 2020 1st + 2020 CAR or TOR 1st + (all elc) Howden 863,333 x 2 + Hajek 833,333 x 2 + Rykov 925,000 x 2 + Andersson 894,166 x 2
ballpark cap is 3.3+
Cap dif is 5.9 - 3.3+ = 2.6- savings to Panthers
Before anyone complains or utters the word ‘outlandish’ let all be reminded that there is a similar precedent with a Nordiques trade of Lindros, which had 6 players, 2 picks and $15 mil cash.
Follow up deal:
Strome [0 cap hit expired w/rfa] + Staal at half 5.7 = 2.85 expiring*
cap is 2.85
for
Stralman 5.5 x 3
cap is 5.5
Cap dif is 5.5 - 2.85+ = 2.65 savings to Panthers
total cap both deals is 5+ savings to FL, including advantageous repurposing of assets from older to younger who are better cost controlled.
* if Staal requests, FL will buy him out at half, which will allow full flexibility about where he tries to land afterward. May be necessary to obtain his waving NMC.
This second deal unloads Stralman at 33 for a mid 20s Strome
----------------------
I agree in a vacuum especially one doesn't move more premium talent without a good reason, and beyond that, a worthwhile profit to go there.
As noted tho, Panthers are not in a vacuum. There are real negatives about cost and age. While the primary pieces are Deangelo and 2 1sts, the cost and youth benefit from Howden, Hajek etc should not be dismissed.
IMO, the only ?s you have are:
- does FL profit more by making other deals instead, which begs the ?s of which deals, and should they be made anyway, b'c they address need and are net profitable;
and
- IF trading Barkov does make sense, then is my offer the best?
btw, I get that you want immediate help.
The Rangers fell into a hole b'c too many people were so damn win now, that we made bad deals (EStaal, Clowe) and overpaid to overextend Staal and Girardi. You see where that got NY. Almost never truly close enough to go deep enough in the POs. And in the end, like any other team, we had to bite the bullet.
So far we have been lucky. Luck is not a transferable or portable commodity.
If you insist, I'm sure those 2 firsts can get an immediate contributor, even a vet who is not old, say mid 20s. But to climb out of the current hole, making full use of those 2 elcs should be considered.
The young vets being sent are useful currency, w/elcs or rfas. It is as you wish, my friend, but, while that is a lot to give up, my package is a lot to turn down.
best.
bern
oh, btw, answer to yr ?, Deangelo's defense is overall okay to fine, by that I mean gets the job done, sure some aspects under magnifying glass may be inadequate other adequate others still adequate +. He isn't Parayko. But he does help transition out of defensive end w/stellar passing, which is not unimportant.
Barkov 5.9 x 3 + FL 2020 2nd, 2020 3rd + Avalanche 2020 3rd
total cap is 5.9
for
Deangelo [0 cap hit expired w/rfa] + NYR 2020 1st + 2020 CAR or TOR 1st + (all elc) Howden 863,333 x 2 + Hajek 833,333 x 2 + Rykov 925,000 x 2 + Andersson 894,166 x 2
ballpark cap is 3.3+
Cap dif is 5.9 - 3.3+ = 2.6- savings to Panthers
Before anyone complains or utters the word ‘outlandish’ let all be reminded that there is a similar precedent with a Nordiques trade of Lindros, which had 6 players, 2 picks and $15 mil cash.
Follow up deal:
Strome [0 cap hit expired w/rfa] + Staal at half 5.7 = 2.85 expiring*
cap is 2.85
for
Stralman 5.5 x 3
cap is 5.5
Cap dif is 5.5 - 2.85+ = 2.65 savings to Panthers
total cap both deals is 5+ savings to FL, including advantageous repurposing of assets from older to younger who are better cost controlled.
* if Staal requests, FL will buy him out at half, which will allow full flexibility about where he tries to land afterward. May be necessary to obtain his waving NMC.
This second deal unloads Stralman at 33 for a mid 20s Strome
----------------------
I agree in a vacuum especially one doesn't move more premium talent without a good reason, and beyond that, a worthwhile profit to go there.
As noted tho, Panthers are not in a vacuum. There are real negatives about cost and age. While the primary pieces are Deangelo and 2 1sts, the cost and youth benefit from Howden, Hajek etc should not be dismissed.
IMO, the only ?s you have are:
- does FL profit more by making other deals instead, which begs the ?s of which deals, and should they be made anyway, b'c they address need and are net profitable;
and
- IF trading Barkov does make sense, then is my offer the best?
btw, I get that you want immediate help.
The Rangers fell into a hole b'c too many people were so damn win now, that we made bad deals (EStaal, Clowe) and overpaid to overextend Staal and Girardi. You see where that got NY. Almost never truly close enough to go deep enough in the POs. And in the end, like any other team, we had to bite the bullet.
So far we have been lucky. Luck is not a transferable or portable commodity.
If you insist, I'm sure those 2 firsts can get an immediate contributor, even a vet who is not old, say mid 20s. But to climb out of the current hole, making full use of those 2 elcs should be considered.
The young vets being sent are useful currency, w/elcs or rfas. It is as you wish, my friend, but, while that is a lot to give up, my package is a lot to turn down.
best.
bern
oh, btw, answer to yr ?, Deangelo's defense is overall okay to fine, by that I mean gets the job done, sure some aspects under magnifying glass may be inadequate other adequate others still adequate +. He isn't Parayko. But he does help transition out of defensive end w/stellar passing, which is not unimportant.
Beezeral
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- Mar 1, 2010
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This is one of the worst proposals I have ever seen.
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
Yeah No, If Barkov is dealt it will be for a top pairing LHD. Tallon wants a highend LHD in the worst way.
LTIR Trickery
Plz stop pucks
biturbo19
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FrolikFan67
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Even if we got one we wouldn’t have any centers. I can see him moving huberdeau for a LD, but Barkov and Ekblad are both staying just because we don’t have any depth at either position, we couldn’t afford to lose either.
A player like Sutter out of Vancouver could go a long way to mending the fractures in the FLA room. Just one year left on his deal too.
TheImpatientPanther
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Ryuji Yamazaki
Do yuu undastahn!?
- Jul 22, 2015
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If the Habs had anyone worth trading for, I’d come up with an equally awful proposal.
Number1RedWingsFan52
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Number1RedWingsFan52
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Yeah sure man, Not even close. Love the 
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