[Globe Editorial] NHL expansion: And why is Canada always the last draft choice?

[Poignant Discussion*]

of course the nhl would rather not have more Canadian teams

Canada and Canadian teams do not "sell in the states" be it our hockey teams, baseball teams or basket ball teams.

just look at how many "national broadcasts " our baseball and basketball teams have been a part of over the past decade, comparatively speaking, it amounts to nil.

Canadian hockey teams that comprise practically 25% of the entire league have had how many national games aired in the last 5 years?

American sports fans in general are all about" all American and all America" , they frankly want nothing to do with Canadian franchises infecting their 4 major leagues, if they can help it.

Leafs sold pretty well in the States with the New Years game. Jays were probably the feature team in baseball post Alomar and Carter trade 89-94. The Raptors were media darlings during the Carter era. I think it's an excuse.

Quebec City has all requirements for an expansion team. Actually they exceed it with having hard core hockey fans and hockey being part of the French culture. To not give them a team would not be in hockey's best interest

 

[member 157595]

Absolutely no interest in an "all-Canadian" conference. It's idiotic. I enjoy and relish rivalries with US teams.

Indeed. Someone not familiar with the NHL would assume that the Bruins and Rangers are arch-rivals, when in fact the Bruins' principal rival is easily Montreal.

That said, Quebec-Montreal is a war...and one that desperately needs to be restarted.

 

[Fugu]

I removed the alignment talk. It always hijacks a thread, unless that is the topic of the topic of the thread.


Now....the G&M editorial claims the following:

If anything, the NHL appears eager to avoid Quebec City, or any other location in hockey’s northern homeland.

This reads as a fait accompli.

Based on what exactly? 16 groups asked for bid packages, and two groups filed--- QC and Vegas.

Seattle had three groups, and not one of them placed an expansion bid.

Where were the other parties who are able to purchase and operate a team in hockey's northern homeland? No one from Toronto, Hamilton, Halifax, Saskatoon....... anywhere else.....placed a bid!

There are incessant screams for numerous teams to be relocated as well, but relocated to where exactly?

Name them. City, arena, and owner. Yes, G&M, you too.

It's all great to keep yammering about this, but WHERE ARE THE BIDS?

 

[Fugu]

Indeed. Someone not familiar with the NHL would assume that the Bruins and Rangers are arch-rivals, when in fact the Bruins' principal rival is easily Montreal.

That said, Quebec-Montreal is a war...and one that desperately needs to be restarted.

Why desperately? It seems to me that Montreal has no shortage of rivals, revenues, fans or anything else that comes to mind.

 

[member 157595]

Why desperately? It seems to me that Montreal has no shortage of rivals, revenues, fans or anything else that comes to mind.

I was speaking mostly from an emotional POV, as someone that greatly enjoyed the Quebec-Montreal battles of yore.

Strictly speaking, you are correct. Montreal doesn't "need" a team in Quebec, nor does the NHL. That said, I would argue that while the QC region has many established hockey fans, the market is definitely unsaturated. Hockey has plenty of room to grow in Quebec province (the LHJMQ has become increasingly dominated by Maritime clubs/talent and youth participation in hockey in many regions of Quebec has dropped) and a NHL team in Quebec City could really recharge the sport in the province in my opinion.

There's a lot of hockey fans in the province that would rather jump off a bridge than cheer for Les Canadiens. It would be great to get that spark back in the NHL.

 

[Cloris Leachman]

I love how it's 2015 and people still think that snowbirds and tourists will fill an arena and make a hockey team money. And that the meager revenues scraped in with that arrangement (and quickly lost to expenses) are somehow more desirable than the cash cow of 41 sell-outs per season in a rabid hockey market.

I also love how badly the NHL wants to be wanted in places that could not possibly want them less, and will tie themselves and their entire business into knots trying to make it work there. Apparently because TV! Because ****ing Atlanta, that ol' hockey hotbed that already drove away two franchises in 30 years thanks to their unending support, is such an indispensible part of a national TV framework that already includes Boston, NY, LA, Bay area, and Chicago. HOW WILL WE EVER GET BY WITHOUT ATLANTA.

 

[Cloris Leachman]

I was speaking mostly from an emotional POV, as someone that greatly enjoyed the Quebec-Montreal battles of yore.

Strictly speaking, you are correct. Montreal doesn't "need" a team in Quebec, nor does the NHL. That said, I would argue that while the QC region has many established hockey fans, the market is definitely unsaturated. Hockey has plenty of room to grow in Quebec province (the LHJMQ has become increasingly dominated by Maritime clubs/talent and youth participation in hockey in many regions of Quebec has dropped) and a NHL team in Quebec City could really recharge the sport in the province in my opinion.

There's a lot of hockey fans in the province that would rather jump off a bridge than cheer for Les Canadiens. It would be great to get that spark back in the NHL.

Passionate hockey fanbases? Pffft, we need more teams playing in front of half-empty arenas in the desert and gulf coast, man! Grow the game!!

 

[htpwn]

Passionate hockey fanbases? Pffft, we need more teams playing in front of half-empty arenas in the desert and gulf coast, man! Grow the game!!

Except internationally.

Then have a "World" Cup with only 6 national teams.

 

[Gnashville]

A completely bogus and half truths filled article intending to fire up the "Bettman hates Canada" majority that thinks the NHL tries to prevent Canadian teams from existing. He even offered some ridiculous explanation for the Winnipeg Jets moving from Atlanta. If the league really did what he proclaimed then they would have fought harder to keep the Thrashers in Atlanta or would have found a multitude of US cities for the team. Hartford, Houston, Portland, Seattle, Milwaukee, Kansas City, Indianapolis would have all been mentioned if the narrative was just to prevent teams out of Canada. He of course took cheap shots at Atlanta and Phoenix and the rest of the hated Sun belt cities. Of course the ones that think along these lines take the bait hook, line, and sinker. Typical Globe and Mail. For all the talk only one Canadian city has put in a bid. Just whining about the lack of teams in Canada is the obvious solution and then proclaiming the league has it in for you when you don't meet the league's requirements (arena and owner).

 

[Fugu]

Passionate hockey fanbases? Pffft, we need more teams playing in front of half-empty arenas in the desert and gulf coast, man! Grow the game!!

What is the alternative presently, given that QC has applied and that the NHL has not turned them down?

 

[Fenway]

The Globe and Mail is partly owned by Bell Media who certainly have an ax to grind with Bettman and the NHL over losing the national TV package to Rogers.

 

[Cloris Leachman]

What is the alternative presently, given that QC has applied and that the NHL has not turned them down?

What are you talking about?

 

[rojac]

The Globe and Mail is partly owned by Bell Media who certainly have an ax to grind with Bettman and the NHL over losing the national TV package to Rogers.

Yep, they have 15%. The other 85% is owned by Woodbridge, which is owned by the Thomson family, including David Thomson who is part owner of the Jets. So I'm not sure if ownership plays into this or not.

 

[Donnie D]

This year they changed the divisions, with Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto, in the Atlantic division but also included Tampa Bay and Florida.

That was done to save Florida. Tampa Bay was the only team (and management likes to point this out at every event where realignment is discussed) that voted against the new divisions. Tampa would much prefer being in the Metro along with Florida with Columbus and Pittsburgh moving to the Atlantic.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Bettman must think he's working for the NBA still. I hope he doesn't think he's gonna get a TV deal even close to the NBAs by bringing more teams to America over Canada.

He won't get a TV deal worth as close to as much as the NBA, but he will get a TV deal that should make every team in the NHL close to profitable.

 

[Fugu]

Passionate hockey fanbases? Pffft, we need more teams playing in front of half-empty arenas in the desert and gulf coast, man! Grow the game!!

What is the alternative presently, given that QC has applied and that the NHL has not turned them down?

What are you talking about?

I'm pointing out that there are 30 teams presently, and two ownership groups who have bid for expansion teams.

You appear to be suggesting that more than just adding QC is needed. What would you do?

 

[Nalens Oga]

He won't get a TV deal worth as close to as much as the NBA, but he will get a TV deal that should make every team in the NHL close to profitable.

Er, he probably won't be commisioner by the time the next TV deal does get done.

Besides, the major networks are gonna show the big teams anyways, I don't think they care that much if they get a slight spike in viewership in some southern state. This argument might have been somewhat valid in the 90s with multiple teams but is adding one (probably revenue sharing franchise) gonna make the difference.

 

[sandysan]

Thanks for that insight. Atlanta needs a team in the NHL and it is insane that a major sports league does not have a team there. They are the only city that can represent the Deep South (although not exactly a Deep South city), and is a major booster to any TV deal the NHL makes. Yes, it will always take a back seat to the Bulldogs, Falcons and Braves, but Atlanta needs a hockey team for sure.

When Atlanta left for the Peg NBC ( the owner of nhl rights in the states then and for quite some time going forward) said they didn't care. At all. I'm not sure how.many thrashers games.made it to the National broadcast, but my guess is that Winnipeg gets about the same exposure.

This " big American TV deal" is a myth. We are going to get pens/hawks/wings and sabres games out the wazoo and non traditional teams in the "grow the game" lie will continue to be treated like they have ebola.

There IS NO big u.s tv deal.

 

[Fugu]

When Atlanta left for the Peg NBC ( the owner of nhl rights in the states then and for quite some time going forward) said they didn't care. At all. I'm not sure how.many thrashers games.made it to the National broadcast, but my guess is that Winnipeg gets about the same exposure.

This " big American TV deal" is a myth. We are going to get pens/hawks/wings and sabres games out the wazoo and non traditional teams in the "grow the game" lie will continue to be treated like they have ebola.

There IS NO big u.s tv deal.

So the NHL adds QC.

Will that quiet the rhetoric out of Globe, that the NHL is holding back Canada? No one else in Canada (or the US, besides Vegas) placed an expansion bid.

 

[Melrose Munch]

This obviously is not just speculation, people forget the first choice for atlanta was portland. Allen was not interested so Winnipeg. The question is why? Why avoid the place that makes the most money?

 

[Gnashville]

So the NHL adds QC.

Will that quiet the rhetoric out of Globe, that the NHL is holding back Canada? No one else in Canada (or the US, besides Vegas) placed an expansion bid.

Yet there will be a large contingent that will claim that Saskatoon, Halifax, Hamilton etc got screwed by Bettman somehow and those cities "deserve" teams. And those cities will become the line in the sand proving "Bettman hates Canada". Even though every team Bettman "stole" will be replaced. And it goes 100% with the league's statement that a city needs an owner (not one that intentionally tries to screw the league) and a viable arena.

 

[sandysan]

Yet there will be a large contingent that will claim that Saskatoon, Halifax, Hamilton etc got screwed by Bettman somehow and those cities "deserve" teams. And those cities will become the line in the sand proving "Bettman hates Canada". Even though every team Bettman "stole" will be replaced. And it goes 100% with the league's statement that a city needs an owner (not one that intentionally tries to screw the league) and a viable arena.

Please don't mention the arena, it makes some uncomfortable in these parts. A collage bid takings parts from.column a. B and C is just as good ( hypothetically, do lo as the arena goes beyond the conceptual stage, someday)

 

[Gnashville]

This obviously is not just speculation, people forget the first choice for atlanta was portland. Allen was not interested so Winnipeg. The question is why? Why avoid the place that makes the most money?

Proof? My understanding is Winnipeg was the destination all along unless the Coyotes moved there first which they almost did in 2009. The league may have talked to Portland officials thinking the Coyotes were going to be returning to Winnipeg.


Something I just noticed is the article title states "Canada is always the last draft choice". But only three cities (now 4) have placed Expansion bids in NHL history and two of those Vancouver and Ottawa actually beat the stacked deck and got teams. Hamilton had a flawed bid and and tried to dictate the expansion terms. So the article title is a flat out lie.

 

[ScottyBowman]

When the Canadian dollar is doing well relative to the USD, yes, the Canadian teams are a cash cow.

When the Canadian dollar is doing poorly, only Toronto brings in much profit. Think back to when the dollar was around $0.65, don't you remember how things were then? How old are you? The Canucks were losing money. The Habs were barely in the black, if at all. Ottawa, Edmonton, Calgary were all struggling and there was talk of bankruptcy. Bettman had to bring in an emergency revenue sharing plan to save the small market Canadian teams.

If the $ goes down much more, Toronto will be the only profitable Canadian team again.

Edit: Incidentally this is why I think the next Canadian team should be a second GTA team. There's enough money in the market that a team in Toronto could be profitable even with a weak dollar.

Yup. Those of us who are in our 30's remember this all too well. The late 90's was rough for Canadian teams with the exchange rate being .68 or so and the Oilers, Flames, Senators were in a world of hurt. Even the Habs were in major financial pain. The Habs and their arena were sold for under $200 mil.

 

[GordonGraham]

Yup. Those of us who are in our 30's remember this all too well. The late 90's was rough for Canadian teams with the exchange rate being .68 or so and the Oilers, Flames, Senators were in a world of hurt. Even the Habs were in major financial pain. The Habs and their arena were sold for under $200 mil.

Its a different era now especially for a team like the habs i mean they get over 80M a year in TV rights(20M national 62M local), yeah its in canadian money but still that puts them ahead of the game no matter the exchange rate