[Globe Editorial] NHL expansion: And why is Canada always the last draft choice?

[Fugu]

They were saying similar about the Marlies on NHL Network Radio yesterday. Not filling up their arena (although coming closer than the Blades).

So that begs the question: is Toronto really a "hockey city", or is it a Leafs city?

No, actually it doesn't raise that question at all.

The implication being that Toronto consumers aren't sophisticated enough to make a distinction between NHL and AHL brands.

I'd say the question is two-fold, is Toronto really an NHL city or a Leafs city. Personally, I think there's enough diversity there given the size of the populace that it would be both.

You can ask the question about NYC metro or LA metro too. Are they more sophisticated hockey consumers since they support 3 and 2 NHL franchises respectively?


Anyway, this thread is at its size limit, so I'll leave it open for a few more posts in case you wish to respond.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

No, actually it doesn't raise that question at all.

The implication being that Toronto consumers aren't sophisticated enough to make a distinction between NHL and AHL brands.

I'd say the question is two-fold, is Toronto really an NHL city or a Leafs city. Personally, I think there's enough diversity there given the size of the populace that it would be both.

You can ask the question about NYC metro or LA metro too. Are they more sophisticated hockey consumers since they support 3 and 2 NHL franchises respectively?


Anyway, this thread is at its size limit, so I'll leave it open for a few more posts in case you wish to respond.

if i may interject

although i guess i am anyway regardless

he does raise a valid point

and it is larger than just toronto i think

most canadian cities are v much pro sports oriented

i used to go to a ton of hitmen games because victor rask (p good #hcanes prospect played there for while) and the house was always empty

i really just don't think ppl in this country really care about minor hokcey (outside of 2 weeks starting every boxing day)

despite what they might tell you or even get upset about when you confront them on it

 

[Mightygoose]

They were saying similar about the Marlies on NHL Network Radio yesterday. Not filling up their arena (although coming closer than the Blades).

So that begs the question: is Toronto really a "hockey city", or is it a Leafs city?

the later by quite a bit actually

Toronto is more an NHL city than just purely a hockey city. The city will support the best of the best (queue the Leaf jokes).

Big reason why next year's world will have all of the games here. Though the tournament is being mocked and to a large part deservingly so. At the end of the day, it's NHL talent and I think it will be well supported.

The world juniors we're well supported here (best of the best) though a major junior team would never be.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Toronto is more an NHL city than just purely a hockey city. The city will support the best of the best (queue the Leaf jokes).

Big reason why next year's world will have all of the games here. Though the tournament is being mocked and to a large part deservingly so. At the end of the day, it's NHL talent and I think it will be well supported.

The world juniors we're well supported here (best of the best) though a major junior team would never be.

your country is always well supported at these events whether they be in toronto, saskatoon, helsinki or nicosia.

canadians i think are ultra national which leads them to be huge fans during the wjc's but not really care during the chl season

ticket sales and attendance would also seem to support this

 

[Mightygoose]

your country is always well supported at these events whether they be in toronto, saskatoon, helsinki or nicosia.

canadians i think are ultra national which leads them to be huge fans during the wjc's but not really care during the chl season

ticket sales and attendance would also seem to support this

On the most part I would agree, though the world juniors we're not well received in Montreal. Ticket pricing I understand had allot to do with it. They even didn't sell out the US/Canada New Years Eve game - McDavid/Eichel head to head for the first time.

Maybe better pricing in a couple of years will make it better. Otherwise, I'd put Nicosia ahead

CHL is better supported in the mid-size markets (London, Quebec, Halifax) than the ones that are or aspire to be major league ones.

 

[Fugu]

if i may interject

although i guess i am anyway regardless

he does raise a valid point

and it is larger than just toronto i think

most canadian cities are v much pro sports oriented

i used to go to a ton of hitmen games because victor rask (p good #hcanes prospect played there for while) and the house was always empty

i really just don't think ppl in this country really care about minor hokcey (outside of 2 weeks starting every boxing day)

despite what they might tell you or even get upset about when you confront them on it

No, I think you're missing my point. You don't equate the AHL and NHL brands, then conclude that the lack of support for the inferior brand is somehow applicable to the premier brand (NHL as the world's best hockey league).

As the center of the hockey world, I think you'd expect the fans here to be the most discerning, and given the amount of money spent on the NHL and Leafs brands, regardless of on ice success, this should indicate just how much more value they place on these brands.

To suggest that ONLY the Leafs could get support really underestimates the diversity and the ability of this market to understand the levels of leagues and talent in the hockey world.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

No, I think you're missing my point. You don't equate the AHL and NHL brands, then conclude that the lack of support for the inferior brand is somehow applicable to the premier brand (NHL as the world's best hockey league).

As the center of the hockey world, I think you'd expect the fans here to be the most discerning, and given the amount of money spent on the NHL and Leafs brands, regardless of on ice success, this should indicate just how much more value they place on these brands.

To suggest that ONLY the Leafs could get support really underestimates the diversity and the ability of this market to understand the levels of leagues and talent in the hockey world.

i think that not only can you, but you should

maybe it is just the american in me showing through, but those two things in fact are not mutually exclusive

imo anyway

using the ncaa and nfl as examples

depending on where you are, ncaa football is akin to religion and people don't really even care about nfl, even though it is the "premier brand"

and even in big markets

they are at worst, on par

 

[Fugu]

i think that not only can you, but you should

maybe it is just the american in me showing through, but those two things in fact are not mutually exclusive

imo anyway

using the ncaa and nfl as examples

depending on where you are, ncaa football is akin to religion and people don't really even care about nfl, even though it is the "premier brand"

and even in big markets

they are at worst, on par

I think you're confusing the markets by introducing the NCAA element. People are fans of the school and its best or top sports. It's almost like having a captive audience, their college experience and the place that university holds in the community or state.

These people are not football fans per se.

I don't understand your "American in me" comment at all. I'm an American too, originally from Chicago. Why should I consider the support various minor leagues receive in any sport as being in an indicator of the support the premier brand may expect? There are people who prefer Jr hockey to the pros, but they're certainly in the minority if you look at the dollars spent and revenues garnered by each level.

There are a lot of other factors that go into it, in addition to a limit of just how many teams or sports people will follow overall. You cannot realistically follow several sports and all its league levels, and you certainly won't spend the same amount of time or money on them all. That doesn't mean you're still not a football or hockey or baseball fan, but more that you've prioritized and picked the level at which you'll invest.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

I think you're confusing the markets by introducing the NCAA element. People are fans of the school and its best or top sports. It's almost like having a captive audience, their college experience and the place that university holds in the community or state.

These people are not football fans per se.

I don't understand your "American in me" comment at all. I'm an American too, originally from Chicago. Why should I consider the support various minor leagues receive in any sport as being in an indicator of the support the premier brand may expect? There are people who prefer Jr hockey to the pros, but they're certainly in the minority if you look at the dollars spent and revenues garnered by each level.

There are a lot of other factors that go into it, in addition to a limit of just how many teams or sports people will follow overall. You cannot realistically follow several sports and all its league levels, and you certainly won't spend the same amount of time or money on them all. That doesn't mean you're still not a football or hockey or baseball fan, but more that you've prioritized and picked the level at which you'll invest.

maybe you are different than i am

which is fine and it's s'all good

but me, as an individual, were it was not for fantasy, i would not watch or care about the nfl at all

i get the whole "school spirit" aspect that you bring up. i am it. but for me and i think a lot of other americans, it goes beyond that

obviously everyone is gonna pull for their school

but i would rather watch p much any college game than nfl and to be completely honest, it's not even close

to put it bluntly, sundays are cool, but i live for saturdays

i don't know if you frequent the football forum at all, but suffice it to say, i loathe the big ten w/ a passion, but it is a free channel i get at work, so i put it on and watch it because that is how much i like ncaa football

i went to undergrad at ecu and grad school at alabama and have less than zero connection to anything big ten, but would still rather watch their highlites than nfl ones outside of "oh, i have player 'x' who was playing in game 'y', i wonder how he did?"

 

[Fugu]

On that note, I think we can shut this thread down. Size limit reached.