Give it up Moore!!!!!

[Resolute]

Read more carefully. He's not talking about the hit. He's talking about the media instances which *are* pretty clear cases of common knowledge. If the poster requiring the sources so chose, he could probably find them himself pretty quickly (chances are he's heard of ém before now but just doesn't want to admit it and is dancing around on the basis that no one's obeying his beck and command to find the sources)... but then he wouldn't want to prove himself wrong, now would he?

And yet, KK has not been able to provide a single example himself.

It was his claim. It is his responsibility to support it.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Can you say Pariah boys and girls?

he wouldn't have a career to go back to, even if he could.

 

[bling]

Can you say Pariah boys and girls?

he wouldn't have a career to go back to, even if he could.

Can you say, he would not be proceeding with the lawsuit if he was able to resume his career, boys and girls?

That is the whole point of the lawsuit, to get compensation for his lost hockey career. Regardless of how great or how mediocre a career he might have had, it was still an NHL career and something he worked very hard to attain. Bertuzzi's thuggery stole it from him, threfore it is up to Bertuzzi to provide restituition. Most people, even Canucks fans agree on that basic point, the arguement now is simply what the dollar figure should be.

As been pointed out numerous times before in inumerable threads on numberless internet message boards, it is the nature of legal procedure that you always sue for a greater monetary value than you eventually get.

The real pariah in all this should be Todd Bertuzzi..it is really a sad world when the victim of a crime is denigrated to a greater degree than the perpetrator..

 

[Bear of Bad News]

If the poster requiring the sources so chose, he could probably find them himself pretty quickly (chances are he's heard of ém before now but just doesn't want to admit it and is dancing around on the basis that no one's obeying his beck and command to find the sources)... but then he wouldn't want to prove himself wrong, now would he?

That's an interesting take, considering that the burden of proof is supposed to be on the person making the claim, not the persons in the audience.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Can you say, he would not be proceeding with the lawsuit if he was able to resume his career, boys and girls?

well, more likely the lawsuit is because the statute of limitations was almost up. I am not bringing up anything that hasn't already been said but I wish Mr. Moore's lawyer luck in proving it was Bertuzzi and not the # of players who piled onto Bertuzzi and Moore after the hit that caused the damage.

You want compensation, sue them all.

The real pariah in all this should be Todd Bertuzzi..it is really a sad world when the victim of a crime is denigrated to a greater degree than the perpetrator..

Bertuzzi really hasn't done more than most hockey players in 1000's of leagues do every night. He was trying to instigate a fight and hit the other player. This hit happened to put Moore down, Bertuzzi fell on him and players from both teams piled on.

I feel for Mr. Moore, but you agree to certain "rules of conduct" when you lace up in any league. Taking the argument outside of the NHL is not right.

 

[Holly Golightly]

And yet, KK has not been able to provide a single example himself.

It was his claim. It is his responsibility to support it.

C'mon folks, I think any person that knows anything about hockey knows what KK is referring too. (Hmmmm, maybe... )

Would this count as "proof"?

Much like the Leafs-Devils rivalry, Colorado and Detroit were sworn enemies after an act of violence, when former Av Claude Lemieux drove Red Wing Kris Draper's face into the boards.

Since, there have been bloody goalie fights, all out brawls, and one nasty act of retribution inflicted on Lemieux by Darren McCarty's fists. Newspapers in Detroit printed wanted posters with Lemieux's face, and Lemieux began getting death threats before games with the Wings.

It even got personal between the coaches. Former Avs coach Marc Crawford berated Bowman over the glass between the teams' benches during one playoff match. Bowman responded by saying he knew Crawford's dad and his dad wouldn't have been proud of him.

Bowman let loose an expletive-laced tirade toward Lemieux in the parking lot after one game--while Lemieux was walking hand in hand with his wife and child.

Hockey Digest Link

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Would this count as "proof"?

Sure, although your quote refers mostly to the press and fans getting on Lemieux, not the Red Wing players or coaches themselves. (As an aside, it's interesting that it involves another team coming after an Avalanche player.)

KK said that it happens "all the time", though, so I asked for three examples. Got any more? I'm sure he appreciates you doing his work for him, by the way. (Don't forget to say "thanks", KK!)

 

[Holly Golightly]

Sure, although your quote refers mostly to the press and fans getting on Lemieux, not the Red Wing players or coaches themselves. (As an aside, it's interesting that it involves another team coming after an Avalanche player.)

KK said that it happens "all the time", though, so I asked for three examples. Got any more? I'm sure he appreciates you doing his work for him, by the way. (Don't forget to say "thanks", KK!)

Now now, don't be so harsh on the guy.

Ohhhhh, I guess I could come up with a couple more instances, however that would require me to stay at work a bit longer, and you know, I'm just not in the mood to do that...especially when I have a nice big package waiting at home for me. As in the Center Ice Package......

Maybe tomorrow though. When I need to waste a little more time at work.

 

[Hasbro]

Sure, although your quote refers mostly to the press and fans getting on Lemieux, not the Red Wing players or coaches themselves. (As an aside, it's interesting that it involves another team coming after an Avalanche player.)

And a player punching an Av in the back of the head. And the team in question waiting for the last game on home ice to take action, and Marc Crawford and Brian Burke and Mike Keane.

 

[bling]

well, more likely the lawsuit is because the statute of limitations was almost up. I am not bringing up anything that hasn't already been said but I wish Mr. Moore's lawyer luck in proving it was Bertuzzi and not the # of players who piled onto Bertuzzi and Moore after the hit that caused the damage.

You want compensation, sue them all.



Bertuzzi really hasn't done more than most hockey players in 1000's of leagues do every night. He was trying to instigate a fight and hit the other player. This hit happened to put Moore down, Bertuzzi fell on him and players from both teams piled on.

I feel for Mr. Moore, but you agree to certain "rules of conduct" when you lace up in any league. Taking the argument outside of the NHL is not right.

Yes you do agree to certain rules of conduct but what Bertuzzi did went well beyond the ordinary risks of playing the game. A court in Vancouver convicted him and that in itself takes this beyond what one can ordinarily expect to have happen in the game of hockey. The fact of a criminal conviction for Bertuzzi also takes this argument outside of the NHL.

That conviction in no way implicated anyone but Todd Bertuzzi in the injury of Steve Moore. All the babbling and whining about others piling on top of Steve causing the injury is moot. The BC court convicted Todd Bertuzzi and no one else of criminal assault causing bodily injury. That is the basis for Steve's lawsuit agains Bertuzzi.

The lawyers for Moore do not have to prove anything regarding the culpability of Todd Bertuzzi, Todd has already admitted to it and been convicted of the crime. It is just a matter of what the courts deem fair compensation for Steve Moore's loss of income potential and degree of disability.

 

[Ensane]

In the US, during criminal arraignments, when defendants plea bargain, the judge instructs them that their plea of no contest can be used against them in civil proceedings. Not 100% sure about BC (wetcoaster?), but I wouldn't doubt it if it were similar/the same.

This alone would render half of the pro-Bertuzzi arguments in this thread moot and useless.

 

[Alan Jackson]

Sure, although your quote refers mostly to the press and fans getting on Lemieux, not the Red Wing players or coaches themselves. (As an aside, it's interesting that it involves another team coming after an Avalanche player.)

KK said that it happens "all the time", though, so I asked for three examples. Got any more? I'm sure he appreciates you doing his work for him, by the way. (Don't forget to say "thanks", KK!)

Would this count?

Martin kept sending out guys to fight," Clarke told the Daily Times. "Martin hid Havlat in the penalty box (serving a fighting penalty for goalie Patrick Lalime) and wouldn’t put (Daniel) Alfredsson and (Peter) Bondra and those guys out there. So he wasn’t trying to win the game."

Clarke scoffed at the notion that Hitchcock -- who stopped just short of putting a bounty on Havlat’s head after he two-handed Mark Recchi Feb. 16 -- had helped precipitate this mess.

"There was a fight between Ray and Brashear. Ray isn’t out there to score goals," said Clarke. "That fight’s over, so let it go. Then they’re jumping our guys who don’t fight, (Mattias) Timander, (Patrick) Sharp ... at least Sharp’s a North American. He knows how to fight. But their guys kept jumping on (bleepin’) Europeans. Martin sends out somebody to jump on (Sami) Kapanen? What the (bleep) is going on with that?

"That gutless puke Martin doing that (crap). But when you pull that (crap) off it comes back to get you. They have to come in here one more time. They won’t be able to hide Alfredsson and (Marian) Hossa and all those guys then."

 

[KrisKing*]

KK said that it happens "all the time", though, so I asked for three examples. Got any more? I'm sure he appreciates you doing his work for him, by the way. (Don't forget to say "thanks", KK!)

I gave you examples, I just didn't give you a link or proof that it happened (even though we all remember it well). To be honest I've taken too many shots to the head to be able to figure out how to find any website other than this one.

And I do appreciate being backed up on here, it's a nice reminder that the majority of hockey fans aren't represented by the consensus on this site.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

the majority of hockey fans aren't represented by the consensus on this site.

Does anyone else here (assuming that you know the meanings of the words "majority" and "consensus") find this statement hilarious?

 

[Hasbro]

Does anyone else here (assuming that you know the meanings of the words "majority" and "consensus") find this statement hilarious?

Oh yeah.

 

[kingpest19]

Chill out, you're turning into a real jackass. Just this year there've been threats issued by Brashear, Gauthier, Fedoruk I think, basically anyone who's gotten into it with Avery. And off the top of my head there's the the domi-niedermeyer thing from a few years ago.

Do you really not believe me, or are you just hoping I can't remember anything so you can prove your point with a lie?

When has there been threats issued by those 3 towards avery? Brashear has hadnt any run-ins with avery this year and thats a fact. Gauthier has never said any thing publicly in the press either this year about going after avery. Neither has fedoruk. Good try though

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Would this count?

Yeah, I'd count that. Clarke's just the type of GM to make those sort of statements, too. Did the team follow up?

 

[GSC2k2*]

well, more likely the lawsuit is because the statute of limitations was almost up. I am not bringing up anything that hasn't already been said but I wish Mr. Moore's lawyer luck in proving it was Bertuzzi and not the # of players who piled onto Bertuzzi and Moore after the hit that caused the damage.

You want compensation, sue them all.



Bertuzzi really hasn't done more than most hockey players in 1000's of leagues do every night. He was trying to instigate a fight and hit the other player. This hit happened to put Moore down, Bertuzzi fell on him and players from both teams piled on.

I feel for Mr. Moore, but you agree to certain "rules of conduct" when you lace up in any league. Taking the argument outside of the NHL is not right.

Where have you been?

That ship has sailed, legally speaking. Bertuzzi was convicted. He has no defence to the liability. The only issue is quantum.

 

[Dolemite]

Gee I would have thought declaring a hockey player on "Public Enemy #1" on the front page would be worse, but whatever you need to keep your persecution complex going.

Let it go.

 

[Hasbro]

Let it go.

It might mean **** if it didn't come from somebody who started a thread whining about the incedent.

 

[Dolemite]

It might mean **** if it didn't come from somebody who started a thread whining about the incedent.

Let it go.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Let it go.

You forgot the "". Your standards are slipping.

 

[Dolemite]

You forgot the "". Your standards are slipping.

People change. That's something that people keep forgetting around here.

 

[kdb209]

well, more likely the lawsuit is because the statute of limitations was almost up. I am not bringing up anything that hasn't already been said but I wish Mr. Moore's lawyer luck in proving it was Bertuzzi and not the # of players who piled onto Bertuzzi and Moore after the hit that caused the damage.

You want compensation, sue them all.



Bertuzzi really hasn't done more than most hockey players in 1000's of leagues do every night. He was trying to instigate a fight and hit the other player. This hit happened to put Moore down, Bertuzzi fell on him and players from both teams piled on.

I feel for Mr. Moore, but you agree to certain "rules of conduct" when you lace up in any league. Taking the argument outside of the NHL is not right.

Others have taken you (correctly) to task here, but I will also point you to wetcoaster's informative post earlier in this thread which actually quoted Judge Weitzel's ruling when sentencing Bertuzzi:

http://www.hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=4684380&postcount=148

http://www.provincialcourt.bc.ca/judgments/pc/2004/04/p04_0472.htm

[13] When one sees the video, which has been played in this proceedings and been shown from a number of angles, it shows that Bertuzzi approached Mr. Moore, who did not have the puck. Bertuzzi seems to be talking at Moore, and Moore continues to skate, not hard, but glides away from Bertuzzi. They start out in the Canucks' end of the ice. They then move down to the other end, the Colorado end. Bertuzzi continued to say things to Moore, apparently attempting to get him into, or talk him into, or goad him into engaging in a consensual fight. The play then once again moved back towards the Canucks' end, and Moore turned and began to head in that direction, again appearing to ignore Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi reached out with his left hand and dropped his stick from his right hand and struck Moore very hard from behind and on the side, landing the blow, it looks like, in the right temple of Moore.

[14] Much has been made of whether or not Bertuzzi intentionally grabbed Moore's sweater for the purpose of pulling him back and, in essence, pulling him into the punch. From my observations of the video, I could not draw that conclusion. It seems to me that an equally consistent explanation is Bertuzzi grabbed the sweater of Moore to stop him.

[15] After the punch lands, Moore falls, with Bertuzzi falling on top of him. Very quickly thereafter members of both teams join on to what is really a dog pile. After the referees become involved and pull the others off, it is clear that Mr. Moore is lying in a prone position on his chest. There is blood on the ice, and he is in obvious severe discomfort and pain.

[16] With respect to whether or not the defendant intentionally rode Moore to the ice, that is not a conclusion that this court could draw, nor is it one which the Crown urges the court to draw.

[17] As is shown in the video, at the time Bertuzzi let go of the stick in his right hand, the stick fell to the ground. It appears that his left foot mounted that prone stick at the time he punched Moore. Bertuzzi's falling forward is equally consistent with him having lost his balance from having stepped on his own stick.

[18] Nonetheless, I am satisfied that the injuries to the head and to the neck, and indeed other injuries that may have occurred, are directly or indirectly related to the punch. Had he not made the punch, then they wouldn't have gone to the ice.

[36] There is a brief statement in one of the cases that has been referred to which really sets out the relationship of the courts to what goes on on the rink. It is an old decision. It is the case of R. v. Watson (1975), 26 C.C.C. (2d) 150. That was a case which involved an incident during a minor hockey game. There was a striking by one of them with a stick and then a fight and so on. The court there in considering the issue of provocation and all those sorts of things that come up whenever assault trials are heard, brings those principles down to the issue of a hockey game. I am quoting, about halfway through the case. The judge in that case states as follows:

Hockey is a fast, vigorous, competitive game involving much body contact. Were the kind of body contact that routinely occurs in a hockey game to occur outside the playing area or on the street, it would, in most cases, constitute an assault to which the sanctions of the criminal law would apply. Patently when one engages in a hockey game, one accepts that some assaults which would otherwise be criminal will occur and consents to such assaults. It is equally patent, however, that to engage in a game of hockey is not to enter a forum to which the criminal law does not extend. To hold otherwise would be to create the hockey arena a sanctuary for unbridled violence to which the law of Parliament and the Queen's justice could not apply. I know of no authority for such a proposition.

He goes on then to quote from the Maki case, which is one of the first cases involving an NHL hockey player, that:

No sports league, no matter how well organized or self-policed it may be, should thereby render the players in that league immune from criminal prosecution.

[37] So that is what is in play here.

[38] The confronting of Moore initially may have been within the bounds of the game. To then have the pursuit literally down the ice and then to grab by the sweater in order to get that player to engage in something which it is clear he did not wish to consent to, clearly went beyond the reasonable limits of the game and is an aggravating factor.

 

[Kickassguy]

Sure, although your quote refers mostly to the press and fans getting on Lemieux, not the Red Wing players or coaches themselves. (As an aside, it's interesting that it involves another team coming after an Avalanche player.)

KK said that it happens "all the time", though, so I asked for three examples. Got any more? I'm sure he appreciates you doing his work for him, by the way. (Don't forget to say "thanks", KK!)

Another that'll maybe help jog your memory.

Fedoruk didn't record a point in the long-awaited victory, but he was involved in the game's most talked-about play. The rugged left winger was given a match penalty midway through the third period of Anaheim's 2-1 victory over Phoenix on Tuesday night when he left his skates to hit the Coyotes' Petr Nedved with a flying elbow.
...
Fedoruk publicly stated after the Coyotes 2-1 victory over the Ducks that he was exacting revenge for an earlier hit by Phoenix's Denis Gauthier on the Ducks' Joffrey Lupul and Todd Marchant.
...
The shot appeared to be in retaliation for a hit moments earlier by Phoenix defenceman Denis Gauthier against Joffrey Lupul.

"It was something that had to be addressed," Fedoruk said. "I'm not naming names but you have a guy out there with a visor on running around like he's King Kong. He's not going to back it up. If the refs aren't going to call it, then it falls on the players to take it on. There were so many high hits and late hits."
...
''In my eyes, it's an eye for an eye. I don't ever want to see anybody get hurt, but when my players get hurt, I feel obliged to send a message that I'm not going to let this happen. I think Nedved can thank his teammate for what happened.''
...
Lupul didn't return after he was struck but he could be back in the lineup as early as Wednesday at Dallas.

Nedved, who skated gingerly off the ice with the help of two teammates, left the game with a concussion. He will be re-evaluated Wednesday.

"You never want to see anybody get hurt," Fedoruk said. "But I'm an emotional player. When I see one of my teammates get hurt, I'm going to send a message that we're not going to stand for it."
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=144167&hubname=

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=144220&hubname=

From November 2005. Things starting to come back?