Confirmed with Link: Gionta talks about the selfishness in the room

[Husko]

He was the captain of that room, right?

I know this isn't everyone's take, but when a guy lauded as a great captain and leader can't make a room good, maybe that means that those kind of intangibles are either kind of overrated or nowhere near as easy to measure as anyone thinks?

I'm still on the side of "give me the most talented team possible" and character and work ethic and leadership and all that jazz will work itself out.

 

[Buffaloed]

Gionta giving credit to Lamoriello should be the lesson here. The type of leadership needed has to come from the top. You can put a million Gionta's and Gorges' in the room, but if upper management is catering to the players with bad attitudes, it just undermines everything that those vets are trying to accomplish.

When an organization goes into the season intending to tank you can't accomplish anything. You can't establish good work habits or create pride or loyalty. It's one thing to not ice your best players or use the best strategy late in the season to gain a more favorable draft position. It's quite another to begin a season intending to finish last.

 

[jc17]

He was the captain of that room, right?

I know this isn't everyone's take, but when a guy lauded as a great captain and leader can't make a room good, maybe that means that those kind of intangibles are either kind of overrated or nowhere near as easy to measure as anyone thinks?

I'm still on the side of "give me the most talented team possible" and character and work ethic and leadership and all that jazz will work itself out.

I think there's a happy medium somewhere. Talent is necessary to win, but I also don't think you can use one "leader" unable to turn over the personalities of a sour locker room as proof that it doesn't matter at all.

 

[joshjull]

He was the captain of that room, right?

I know this isn't everyone's take, but when a guy lauded as a great captain and leader can't make a room good, maybe that means that those kind of intangibles are either kind of overrated or nowhere near as easy to measure as anyone thinks?

I'm still on the side of "give me the most talented team possible" and character and work ethic and leadership and all that jazz will work itself out.

A captain can’t shape a culture to his will when it’s undermined by a group of drunks, idiots and party boys. Murray undermined any chance that locker room had with some players he brought in to speed things up.

Especially when those guys are much closer in age to the youngsters the older vets were brought in to mold.

 

[elchud]

In year 2 of Gionta there was a 27 point increase from year 1 and a massive talent influx as well.

Things went of track after that.

The two tank years ended up with Jack/Sam, the signing of ROR, trading for Kane. And their first year together showed a surface sign that things were going up up up the iceberg beneath is what Gionta is talking about.

I aint blaming the tank. There was a 27 point increase in one season and no reason to think we wouldn't continue to improve.

 

[Djp]

In year 2 of Gionta there was a 27 point increase from year 1 and a massive talent influx as well.

Things went of track after that.

The two tank years ended up with Jack/Sam, the signing of ROR, trading for Kane. And their first year together showed a surface sign that things were going up up up the iceberg beneath is what Gionta is talking about.

I aint blaming the tank. There was a 27 point increase in one season and no reason to think we wouldn't continue to improve.

I’d like to know what was building up at the rnd of 15-16 that came into the 16-27 and blew it up.

 

[elchud]

I’d like to know what was building up at the rnd of 15-16 that came into the 16-27 and blew it up.

I think it was just bad ingredients in the mix that showed promise but later proved poisonous?

 

[elchud]

Gionta signed up after tank season 1. He had to know, if not was told, that there would be a tank part 2 to try to get McDavid. He had to know year 1 would be a disaster.

If I had to guess, the deadline deal bringing in Bogo and Kane is where he was like...whoa. Because before that everything was a known quantity.

 

[Buffaloed]

He was the captain of that room, right?

I know this isn't everyone's take, but when a guy lauded as a great captain and leader can't make a room good, maybe that means that those kind of intangibles are either kind of overrated or nowhere near as easy to measure as anyone thinks?

I'm still on the side of "give me the most talented team possible" and character and work ethic and leadership and all that jazz will work itself out.

If that were true it should have been possible to buy a cup in the pre-salary cap days.
NY Rangers 1997-98 to 2003-04 had some of the most talented teams in hockey and didn't make the playoffs.

 

[elchud]

Jack lived with Moulson that first year. Maybe its all Moulsons fault.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Its pretty clear. If you are a sudden millionaire 18-20 year old, with everything you ever wanted in arm's reach, who are most people going to gravitate to?

The DGAF younger players who go out and party, abuse white powder, find girls, and play video games?

or the boring married guys?


Its amazing that anyone thought that would work. The sad part is, those seasons look like the glory days compared to what we have suffered since Tim Murray was canned.

Adams needs to quit drafting those damn 18 year olds. It hasn't worked for Murray or Botterill

 

[Bendium]

He was the captain of that room, right?

I know this isn't everyone's take, but when a guy lauded as a great captain and leader can't make a room good, maybe that means that those kind of intangibles are either kind of overrated or nowhere near as easy to measure as anyone thinks?

I'm still on the side of "give me the most talented team possible" and character and work ethic and leadership and all that jazz will work itself out.

Mid level leadership, like team captain, will only go as far as management above supports. I have worked several jobs now where I was the second in command, and had a boss that loved people needing him, so he would let people go around me so they knew HE was the boss. Leaves you powerless. No responsibility without authority, or you are just there to take the blame.

Talent alone will never win a team sport.

 

[Butt Ox]

What witch hunt would that be?

The one in this thread, speculating whom could be among the selfish. Winni guys et al.

 

[Der Jaeger]

He was the captain of that room, right?

I know this isn't everyone's take, but when a guy lauded as a great captain and leader can't make a room good, maybe that means that those kind of intangibles are either kind of overrated or nowhere near as easy to measure as anyone thinks?

I'm still on the side of "give me the most talented team possible" and character and work ethic and leadership and all that jazz will work itself out.

That's gonna be a hard no from me, dawg.

During my military career, I've been in leadership positions for most of my 22 years of service. I'm easily taking the character, work ethic, trust, and all that other jazz over talent. We, in fact, attempt to prevent low character individuals from enlisting and actively weed out those that we missed. The entire purpose of the final basic training exercise, where you limit food and sleep, and then put the trainees through continuous activity is to break them down to their core and find out who doesn't need to be with us.

For special operations, the purpose of the intense selections is the same: make life suck so bad that it breaks the volunteers to their core, then see who the jerks are. They never make it.

Watch Simon Sinek's explanation of how Navy Seals pick their members. These special operations forces are under far more pressure to perform, in impossible conditions, than any other group on the planet. And they prioritize character, trust, etc over talent.

 

[dotcommunism]

Feels like a good time to remind everyone of the forum rules:

8) Claims of Insider Information/ Rumors & Hearsay: If you're an insider, contact us with proof BEFORE you post. These posts will be allowed/rejected at the discretion of administrators after consulting with other posters, moderators, and relevant sources. Deference will be given to veteran members who have established credibility. It's not acceptable to post that you heard someone has a drinking/drug/sex/personal problem from a "good" source. Do not post information that can be considered defamatory without a link to a credible media source. Other forums, personal websites, amateur/unvetted blogs, hearsay, and personal testimonials are not considered credible.

 

[Buffaloed]

Adams needs to quit drafting those damn 18 year olds. It hasn't worked for Murray or Botterill

Adams is no dummy. The reason the Sabres drafted so many Russians is most of those kids listed as 18 years old are really in their mid 20's.

 

[SackTastic]

He was the captain of that room, right?

I know this isn't everyone's take, but when a guy lauded as a great captain and leader can't make a room good, maybe that means that those kind of intangibles are either kind of overrated or nowhere near as easy to measure as anyone thinks?

I'm still on the side of "give me the most talented team possible" and character and work ethic and leadership and all that jazz will work itself out.

You can only lead those who are willing to be lead.

 

[toomuchsauce]

Eichel leadership style: "guys, everybody listen up: do not speak to me. Do not look me directly in the eyes."

Mittelstadt leadership style: (completely gone off that loud, speaking to guys through a video game chat) "i don't want to play no more, you broke the darn car, how am I supposed to play"

 

[jc17]

As long as we're on leadership videos, I'm always partial to the first follower:



Perhaps what the Sabres lacked when gio was captain

 

[Husko]

That's gonna be a hard no from me, dawg.

During my military career, I've been in leadership positions for most of my 22 years of service. I'm easily taking the character, work ethic, trust, and all that other jazz over talent. We, in fact, attempt to prevent low character individuals from enlisting and actively weed out those that we missed. The entire purpose of the final basic training exercise, where you limit food and sleep, and then put the trainees through continuous activity is to break them down to their core and find out who doesn't need to be with us.

For special operations, the purpose of the intense selections is the same: make life suck so bad that it breaks the volunteers to their core, then see who the jerks are. They never make it.

Watch Simon Sinek's explanation of how Navy Seals pick their members. These special operations forces are under far more pressure to perform, in impossible conditions, than any other group on the planet. And they prioritize character, trust, etc over talent.

Sure, but hockey isn't the military. And there's many professions where you'd want the most skilled versus the best heart.

Am I saying leadership and character don't matter? No. But I generally think, especially in hockey, these traits that are wildly overblown and/or misunderstood and often used as convenient scapegoats for teams that just don't have enough talent/are poorly run.

Take Ryan O'Reilly for example. Is he a good leader or bad? Good character or bad? The pendulum has swing so many times that I think the answer is he's a good hockey player that gets called high character when he's winning and low character when he's losing.

Does a healthy locker room beget winning or does winning beget a healthy locker room? I tend to think it's more the latter than the former.

 

[5 Minute Major]

It's easy to play monday morning QB here, but the reality is, the biggest problem with culture in Buffalo isn't selfish players, it's that the teams weren't well constructed.

That could be argued as one in the same

 

[5 Minute Major]

A captain can’t shape a culture to his will when it’s undermined by a group of drunks, idiots and party boys. Murray undermined any chance that locker room had with some players he brought in to speed things up.

Especially when those guys are much closer in age to the youngsters the older vets were brought in to mold.

Exactly.

And we have the other Buffalo team as a prime example. What did Beane do when he first took over? He shed the team of “I” players and built it with “we” players.

 

[Chainshot]

As long as we're on leadership videos, I'm always partial to the first follower:



Perhaps what the Sabres lacked when gio was captain

That was Gorges, in much the same way that Grier did that for Drury (and Briere).

 

[Duddy]

He got lucky that Allen worked out. Without a qb, you can have all the team players you want.

I must say, I find it really disgusting how some of you talk about former and current guys. It just reeks of a horrible case of former lover venom.
People that should be blamed are coaches, managment and ownership for throwing all those young guys into this trash situation and not guiding thwm to where they need to be. This used to be one of the best boards, we should try to get back there.

 

[Husko]

Exactly.

And we have the other Buffalo team as a prime example. What did Beane do when he first took over? He shed the team of “I” players and built it with “we” players.

One of his biggest additions is a guy that has been known as a locker room cancer all his career (Diggs), which is kind of my point.