Confirmed with Link: Gionta talks about the selfishness in the room

[K8fool]

Can 18 year old go "bad" because of bad influences and examples in a locker room? If you want to make a comparison to the military this may be the one. Impressionable kids can become ne'er do wells when immersed in a training environment, a day to day routine, life on the road sharing the same bldg, etc etc etc

Not that I want to beat up on E Kane, but since his issues are public and well known. Maybe he would have turned out better if he had the right role models when he was 18/19/20. Who can know these things. Im a charitable guy so I say yes, maybe he didn't have to go off track. He is just an extreme example. Im not trying to slander the guy Im sure he is likable and has some great qualities and done charitable stuff and all that.

Buy in ( unquestioning) . .. As a definition of character.

 

[K8fool]

Can 18 year old go "bad" because of bad influences and examples in a locker room? If you want to make a comparison to the military this may be the one. Impressionable kids can become ne'er do wells when immersed in a training environment, a day to day routine, life on the road sharing the same bldg, etc etc etc

Not that I want to beat up on E Kane, but since his issues are public and well known. Maybe he would have turned out better if he had the right role models when he was 18/19/20. Who can know these things. Im a charitable guy so I say yes, maybe he didn't have to go off track. He is just an extreme example. Im not trying to slander the guy Im sure he is likable and has some great qualities and done charitable stuff and all that.

And exalted above all others at first believing the press above coach and teammates..

 

[K8fool]

Did you borrowed Djp keyboard?.. I'm sorry.

Djp ? Passive aggressive undefined , no ? So enlighten my rattlesnake asz crawling under a blah blah...

 

[elchud]

I was friends w a seal for a while.. This is the only interaction i have w military now.. When the narrative he'd been sold suddenly clashes with the truth he lived ... Its a problem.. They suddenly have to hide what they know in order to not be labelled a cancer and get possibly blackballed .. The certainty level at which he lived his privileged life was ripped away and couldn't tell many people..

This is coming to many many more profession s without judgement as we go forward.. Whether this is relevant to bills and sabres issues and a lifer like gionta , i do not know.

Sabres need better talent and better leaders. We can all agree on that.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

OK, let's go apples-to-apples. When the highest level of US special operations forces recruits from lower special operations forces, they are recruiting from an incredibly talented and well trained group. Eg: Navy SEAL team 6 gets their members from other, lower level SEAL teams. Army SFOD-Ds (Delta Force) get their members from Rangers and SFOD-As (Green Berets).

I know snipers who tried out for Delta Force, were already Rangers, and had never missed a shot in their careers. Incredibly talented.

And the highest level military organizations still prioritize character over skills and performance - which are world class and take years to develop.

I still don't think this is an apples to apples comparison. The military analogies don't work. Character and ethics are obviously going to be more important when lives are at stake. That's not hockey. Hockey is a sport.

 

[Der Jaeger]

I still don't think this is an apples to apples comparison. The military analogies don't work. Character and ethics are obviously going to be more important when lives are at stake. That's not hockey. Hockey is a sport.

Couldn't disagree more. People like Simon Sinek make millions translating what makes military organizations work well for businesses. If it's applicable to a business, it's applicable to sports.

We don't use character and ethics to save lives. We use character and ethics to build cohesive teams. Those teams save lives. The same lessons and methods we use to build character are easily transferable to any walk of live where a team exists.

 

[Buffaloed]

If you could clone players a team with a dozen Evander Kanes would beat the snot out of one with a dozen Curtis Lazars every night.

 

[elchud]

I still don't think this is an apples to apples comparison. The military analogies don't work. Character and ethics are obviously going to be more important when lives are at stake. That's not hockey. Hockey is a sport.

All analogies are imperfect. With this one you don't really need the analogy. That teams need excellent leadership and that a culture which can unite a disparate cast of characters and develop and inculcate a mentality into impressionable kids is not a new concept.

The military as a highly bureaucratic and specialized monolith, of course, differs from a 32 team league where you are in constant competition and 31 teams will fail every year. Sure there's things like gunnery and BN or BDE level intramural sports but in the military you simply aren't constantly in competition every single day. Constant leadership turnover in sports as well due to success/failure, as opposed to constant PCS re-shuffling.

And just to mention, it works the other way. Im tasked out for resiliency training and the hip thing is installation resiliency centers staffed with sports psychologists.

 

[Fezzy126]

That was a narrative that surrounded him his entire time in Minnesota. Was it true or just a convenient excuse for a team that didn’t win? I don’t know. But now that he’s winning in Buffalo no one has a bad thing to say about him.

Diggs actually had a reputation before his time as pro:

Big Ten suspends Stefon Diggs for Maryland-Penn State pregame excitement

The Big Ten announced on Monday that it has issued a "public reprimand" of Maryland coach Randy Edsall and star Terrapins receiver Stefon Diggs for the "exceptionally regrettable" pregame festivities against Penn State. Diggs was also suspended for one game and the university was fined $10,000. The suspension stemmed from Maryland players refusing to shake hands with the Penn State players before the game Saturday.

That led to a pregame scuffle in which Diggs appeared to stiff-arm a ref.

The Big Ten determined that Edsall "failed to control his team," though Edsall did say that the event was not orchestrated and apologized for it afterward.

His prima donna antics hurt his team on the field and his coaches reputation.

That goes along with if a team wins, the off-ice/room issues don't have as much play in the press. When they lose though, all the warts come into focus.

I love watching Diggs on Sundays, but this is absolutely right. His reputation has always been spotty and if the Bills ever start losing, who knows if his interviews and social media interractions will go bad.

 

[thewookie1]

Diggs actually had a reputation before his time as pro:

Big Ten suspends Stefon Diggs for Maryland-Penn State pregame excitement


His prima donna antics hurt his team on the field and his coaches reputation.

I love watching Diggs on Sundays, but this is absolutely right. His reputation has always been spotty and if the Bills ever start losing, who knows if his interviews and social media interractions will go bad.

I'd say that part of what differs between Diggs and Kane were the situations they entered into. Diggs got a fresh start on a team with an established leadership group and a QB he personally hit it off with. Kane left a team under heavy scrutiny only to enter a new team in transition and with no real locker room culture.

Just look at when Kane went to SJ at first things worked well because the leadership there was solid but flexible. Jumbo Joe, Pavelski, and Couture, Burns, etc all have their quirks but are very professional to varying degrees. With the first two gone, and the latter two on the decline along with Karlsson and Vlasic; Kane has seemingly gone to taking advantage of the weakened leadership structure and has leveraged his great play with getting away with breaking the rules which only further undermines the leadership.

In Buffalo he undermined Gionta's leadership out of the gate; lured Eichel and Reinhart into his web as well held GMTM's heart. And when GMTM actually had given up on reforming him; his trade to Minnesota was nixed by a serious legal situation.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Couldn't disagree more. People like Simon Sinek make millions translating what makes military organizations work well for businesses. If it's applicable to a business, it's applicable to sports.

We don't use character and ethics to save lives. We use character and ethics to build cohesive teams. Those teams save lives. The same lessons and methods we use to build character are easily transferable to any walk of live where a team exists.

Correct on all counts and a big reason why prior military are sought in the civilian world.

 

[elchud]

We are where we are and where we have been because of incompetent management.

Purging malcontents from an organization happens often in the military. Having that one guy's shadow overshadow everything else would be completely out-of-order, if it was because "trade value" didn't meet what was desired. This is also where the military analogy fails. Settle for a bag of pucks to de-toxify the room. But there's more to it than that, NHL is talent driven. There was a pow-wow between the league and the player and the team and A PLAYERS UNION. U-n-i-o-n. Not to mention agents.

 

[Buffaloed]

That's gonna be a hard no from me, dawg.

During my military career, I've been in leadership positions for most of my 22 years of service. I'm easily taking the character, work ethic, trust, and all that other jazz over talent. We, in fact, attempt to prevent low character individuals from enlisting and actively weed out those that we missed. The entire purpose of the final basic training exercise, where you limit food and sleep, and then put the trainees through continuous activity is to break them down to their core and find out who doesn't need to be with us.

For special operations, the purpose of the intense selections is the same: make life suck so bad that it breaks the volunteers to their core, then see who the jerks are. They never make it.

Watch Simon Sinek's explanation of how Navy Seals pick their members. These special operations forces are under far more pressure to perform, in impossible conditions, than any other group on the planet. And they prioritize character, trust, etc over talent.

It's common knowledge that Bill Belichick was the driving force behind the Patriot Way.

 

[Der Jaeger]

It's common knowledge that Bill Belichick was the driving force behind the Patriot Way.

I’m torn on how to respond

 

[Kevin27NYI]

That's Tavares stuff and one of the reasons I was glad to be gone of him. Was about him and not the team. Everyone was so focused on getting him better linemates to play with instead of making the team better.

Lot more fun focusing on the team than an individual.

Nice little bump here after a solid start

 

[CrazyMonkey1208]

It isn't that Kane and Hall are essentially bad people

I don't know about Hall but Kane has been a cancer on every team he's been with. I wouldn't hesitate to call him a bad person. And that's just strictly his hockey career not personal life (which sounds even worse)