Gillis vs Torts vs both
- Thread starter BoHorvatFan
- Start date
- Status
bsjezz
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2011
- 895
- 0
i'm less worried about losing gillis than i am about what comes after him. he's proven to be very forward thinking and pro-active in enabling this team to win; from sleep science and analytics to having lawrence gilman onside as a hardworking cap guru. tortorella may not be right as a coach, but he's obviously honest, and i believe him when he says that gillis leaves no stone unturned when it comes to giving the canucks an advantage.
i also think gillis treats his players right and has cultivated a very unique value-set in his player selections, and in the guys he's retained; it's an intelligent, professional, often family-centred group that has done guys like kassian wonders. that might not tangibly lead to wins, but it does make me proud of the canucks as a part of the community - and as the club that represents vancouver.
i don't really know if that's easy to replace. i don't know if the priority will be to replace those things specifically. that's why i'm scared - there are a lot of backwards minds in the hockey world, and if we stumble into one of them we may lose our respect as well as our entertainment.
i also think gillis treats his players right and has cultivated a very unique value-set in his player selections, and in the guys he's retained; it's an intelligent, professional, often family-centred group that has done guys like kassian wonders. that might not tangibly lead to wins, but it does make me proud of the canucks as a part of the community - and as the club that represents vancouver.
i don't really know if that's easy to replace. i don't know if the priority will be to replace those things specifically. that's why i'm scared - there are a lot of backwards minds in the hockey world, and if we stumble into one of them we may lose our respect as well as our entertainment.
I more or less agree with this. Is Gillis perfect, no, but I don't think he is terrible either. His biggest mess up was obviously the goaltending fiasco, but considering how much criticism he has taken for that, I definitely think he learned his lesson and will be very leery to let any issue go unaddressed again for so long.
And he has done a lot of good things, such as signing players (ie kesler, edler) to very cap friendly deals, as well he has actually developed some good young player (ie tanev, corrado, lack), as well as guys like Kassian and Jensen have really come on and are showing good promise to be big contributors in the future.
I also think that he had a good draft last year in getting guys like horvat and shinkaruk, as well as picking up some good potential low risk/ high reward players in cassels and subban in later rounds. Also, he has made some shrewd moves, such as signing Tanev, Lack and now Dane Fox when all three of them went undrafted.
So on balance I think he has done a lot of good things that have actually strengthened this organization in the long run. Did we make the playoffs this year? no, but that doesn't mean that we should throw a massive tantrum and completely tear everything down.
I would also like to point out, that one could argue that one of Gillis' biggest mistakes was getting rid of AV, because in hindsight I think we can all agree that AV is a very good coach, and was probably still getting more or less the most that any coach could get out of this group.
But, because this fan base is so fickle and was out witch hunting for someone to blame because of two early round playoff exits, I actually think Gillis succumbed to the pressure and thought 'better AV than me' and got rid of him.
I was surprised by the Tortorella hiring, and I didn't think it was a good fit from the get-go. I was surprised, but glad when the team did so well in the first half of the year. I personally really wanted to get Tippet if he was ever available, because I personally think this group does do best with a calm, level headed, experienced coach that will let each player more or less play his own game, as long as they get back defensively.
Torts does have good experience and I think he is a good coach, but because of all his off ice antics and hot-headedness, I can't help but wonder if deep down some of the players don't really respect him. I mean, he really is the complete opposite in personality to the Sedins (can you ever imagine Henrik going and storming an opposing teams locker room). And because of this unprofessionalism I think he can come across as a bit of a clown and is hard to take seriously.
Anyway, I still think torts should be given the first 20 games or so of next season, and if it is still clearly not working, then yes, you will need to bring in someone else.
But, because this fan base is so fickle and was out witch hunting for someone to blame because of two early round playoff exits, I actually think Gillis succumbed to the pressure and thought 'better AV than me' and got rid of him.
I was surprised by the Tortorella hiring, and I didn't think it was a good fit from the get-go. I was surprised, but glad when the team did so well in the first half of the year. I personally really wanted to get Tippet if he was ever available, because I personally think this group does do best with a calm, level headed, experienced coach that will let each player more or less play his own game, as long as they get back defensively.
Torts does have good experience and I think he is a good coach, but because of all his off ice antics and hot-headedness, I can't help but wonder if deep down some of the players don't really respect him. I mean, he really is the complete opposite in personality to the Sedins (can you ever imagine Henrik going and storming an opposing teams locker room). And because of this unprofessionalism I think he can come across as a bit of a clown and is hard to take seriously.
Anyway, I still think torts should be given the first 20 games or so of next season, and if it is still clearly not working, then yes, you will need to bring in someone else.
the problem is the canucks have like one player from 2006-2010 on their roster. 50% of that is on Noni's.. 50% is on gillis. Honestly though I'd rather have gone to the finals than draft more.. So I'm not sure how much more he could have done. We needed to trade those picks for depth for the runs..
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
Forward thinking? What...has the plan all along to be that Gillis wouldn't do his job for the first few years after not winning the Cup so the team could rot away and we could tank for McDavid without making it look obvious? Just like Mike Gillis gets credit for being the architect of the team that went to the Cup finals, he also deserves blame for decimating the team afterward. Time for someone new.
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
- 34,914
- 9,330
According to some of the TSN guys on Twitter, it sure sounds like someone might be fired. Maybe as early as today.
Jumex
Registered User
Gillis is a great president.
Forward thinking.
Eagle eye for money ball signings.
Good at making the Canuck brand profitable.
Passionate about giving back to the community.
Gillis is a horrific GM.
I can't think of another currently employed GM that has made this many critical errors that have resulted in significantly downgraded the overall state of the franchise.
It boggles my mind to see people defend Gillis.
2 franchise goalies gone, and a ravaged prospect cupboard. An aging core with families rooted deep into Vancouver sheltered with NTC.
Gillis has clearly been shunned by his colleagues, you can only play hardball so long, especially when everyone knows your asking price, then later see you settle for significantly less when backed into the corner.
Gillis would make a great aid as an acting president over a GM starting out or starting over, he is extremely strong in certain areas. Trading players is not one of them.
I say keep Gillis as Pres and hire a new hockey mind to help with this mini rebuild in the GM position.
Because let's face it, if what the builder built get knocked down, chances are he is going to build the same thing over and over again.
Forward thinking.
Eagle eye for money ball signings.
Good at making the Canuck brand profitable.
Passionate about giving back to the community.
Gillis is a horrific GM.
I can't think of another currently employed GM that has made this many critical errors that have resulted in significantly downgraded the overall state of the franchise.
It boggles my mind to see people defend Gillis.
2 franchise goalies gone, and a ravaged prospect cupboard. An aging core with families rooted deep into Vancouver sheltered with NTC.
Gillis has clearly been shunned by his colleagues, you can only play hardball so long, especially when everyone knows your asking price, then later see you settle for significantly less when backed into the corner.
Gillis would make a great aid as an acting president over a GM starting out or starting over, he is extremely strong in certain areas. Trading players is not one of them.
I say keep Gillis as Pres and hire a new hockey mind to help with this mini rebuild in the GM position.
Because let's face it, if what the builder built get knocked down, chances are he is going to build the same thing over and over again.
jimmythescot
Registered User
It better be Torts. I mean, I could also see firing Gillis, but Torts seems to be completely at odds with the team. I'm not sure how you can fix that unless you're planning on trading everyone.
Flying as much as the Canucks have to do is also supposed to be hard on your body. Something to do with the nitrogen in your blood. Makes it easier to get injured, so playing the way he wanted them to was always going to cause problems.
Flying as much as the Canucks have to do is also supposed to be hard on your body. Something to do with the nitrogen in your blood. Makes it easier to get injured, so playing the way he wanted them to was always going to cause problems.
Jumex
Registered User
Based only off the LeBrun speculation.
I can see the merit of changing a GM ASAP, as it gives a more time with an impending draft.
But changing firing a coach with 3 games left changes very little.
Not that I agree that GMMG should go, unless you have a replacement ready.
I can see the merit of changing a GM ASAP, as it gives a more time with an impending draft.
But changing firing a coach with 3 games left changes very little.
Not that I agree that GMMG should go, unless you have a replacement ready.
Bleach Clean
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2006
- 27,056
- 6,632
If its Gillis, then I think that will set the team back a few years, regardless of who they bring in.
Hoping its Torts and not Gillis. Could be both?
jimmythescot
Registered User
Getting a better draft pick because of the disorganiation? Although, the Canucks had their best period of hockey in ages when Torts told them to just go out there with the pressure off and have fun. So maybe being under his iron thumb (is that a mixed metaphor?) is actually helping the tank.
Rex Banner
Custom User Title
- Aug 22, 2013
- 1,914
- 3
Jack Tripper
Vey Falls Down
im thinking more and more that its going to end up being both, and this morning's insider speculation from mckenzie / lebrun / dreger is doing nothing to dissuade me from that belief
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
Jumex
Registered User
If Gillis was to go, who would you hire?
Laurence Gilman
Ron Hextall
Julien Brisebois
Jim Benning
David McNab
Not sure who else might be available?
Laurence Gilman
Ron Hextall
Julien Brisebois
Jim Benning
David McNab
Not sure who else might be available?
If it's one or the other, I'd say fire Torts, but I don't think firing either is necessary. I don't want to see a knee-jerk reaction.
polarbearcub
Registered User
Please not Carlyle....same bs as torts.
Also if ownership is firing ppl today over ticket renewals... Well then **** that. Get these clowns to sell.
We are not Toronto. Build the team the right damn way
MadaCanuckle
Registered User
No, please no.
About Gillis, the Canucks would be stupid to fire him, they need him as a President of Hockey Operations. Leave the hockey to people who understands hockey and not an agent.
Jumex
Registered User
Rex Banner
Custom User Title
- Aug 22, 2013
- 1,914
- 3
If we don't have a bunch of injuries and a bunch of players underperform, we are in the playoffs.
That along with the fact that we have the best pool of prospects we've had in a looooong time.
I don't see the point of moving Gillis. Because of the Luongo situation? The rules of his massive contract changed after the lock out. He had a NTC which limited the options to pretty much Florida. Sure it lasted far too long.
- Status
