Getzlaf: 112 points in 112 playoff games

[KaseMeOutside]

Snark aside, I'm honestly not trying to discount the significance of the injury.

My point was more that, ok, yes he had an injury that year.... and yet it was one of his best playoff performances. So you could argue it derailed what could have otherwise been a mythic playoff run. I'll grant that.


But there are still all the other seasons since 2007 he performed WORSE than the year he got a hernia.... so surely injury can't account for them all.


So hopefully you can understand why some might suspect it was more than injury that contributed to that loss. It might have contributed something, but there was a pattern of under-performance, particularly against top 2-way centers, that preceded that particular injury.

The difference between Getzlaf, and say a player like Toews or even Crosby/Malkin is those teams can still win if they don't carry the offense. If Getzlaf does not score the Ducks cannot win he has been asked to do about as much heavy lifting as any player in the league over the last 5 years or so.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Getzlaf destroys Toews in the playoffs

Anaheim went out and got Kesler precisely because Getzlaf was getting absolutely shredded and abused by the other teams' elite two-way 1Cs in the playoffs year after year. Let's not rewrite history because of recency bias.

For example, since '07, Getzlaf's numbers in general go from 2.77 GF/60, 1.79 GA/60, 60.7 GF%, 50.5 CF% to 1.23 GF/60, 4.94 GA/60, 20% GF%, 45.3 CF% vs Kopitar in the playoffs. That's why he's been taking grief.

I know the popular meme around here is 'defense is overrated' but Getzlaf has historically been unable to overcome guys that know what to do on the other side of the puck. That may be changing this year as he goes HAM, and I find Getzlaf an underrated player in general because of these performances (kinda getting the Thornton treatment), but lets not polar swing the other way as a response.

 

[AngelDuck]

Anaheim went out and got Kesler precisely because Getzlaf was getting absolutely shredded and abused by the other teams' elite two-way 1Cs in the playoffs year after year. Let's not rewrite history because of recency bias.

For example, since '07, Getzlaf's numbers in general go from 2.77 GF/60, 1.79 GA/60, 60.7 GF%, 50.5 CF% to 1.23 GF/60, 4.94 GA/60, 20% GF%, 45.3 CF% vs Kopitar in the playoffs. That's why he's been taking grief.

I know the popular meme around here is 'defense is overrated' but Getzlaf has historically been unable to overcome guys that know what to do on the other side of the puck. That may be changing this year as he goes HAM, and I find Getzlaf an underrated player in general because of these performances (kinda getting the Thornton treatment), but lets not polar swing the other way as a response.

You just valued 7 games against Kopitar in comparison to the rest of his dominant career in the playoffs. Fun with small sample sizes, I guess sometimes there's nothing better to do in the offseason.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You just valued 7 games against Kopitar in comparison to the rest of his dominant career in the playoffs. Fun with small sample sizes, I guess sometimes there's nothing better to do in the offseason.

Feel free to pick another center he got worked by in the last several years, there's plenty to choose from. 7 games here, 7 games there...it adds up.

Edit: here, I'll pick a couple from this thread:

Getz vs. Zetterberg: 1.56 GF/60, 2.09 GA/60, 42.9 GF%, 43.2 CF%
Getz vs. Toews: ZERO GF/60, 3.64 GA/60, 0 GF%, 62 CF% hmmmm

You see his numbers being fantastic otherwise, and that's been his 'problem' since he's been the guy for the Ducks.

Like I said before, it's a little bit of Thornton syndrome--fantastic player otherwise, monster playoff career--but people will remember the tough moments. He has to break through.

I mean, many of your fellow Ducks fans on page 1 said the same thing, just without the actual numbers--but don't let that distract you from a chance to take a shot at a Kings fan

 

[Not So Mighty]

It literally took one reply for a Hawks fan to turn this into a Toews thread. Incredible.

 

[JaegerDice]

It literally took one reply for a Hawks fan to turn this into a Toews thread. Incredible.

Oh, whine more.

I pretty clearly listed 3 different centres that used Getzlaf as a squeegee to clean the ice in head-to-head matchups.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Oh, whine more.

I pretty clearly listed 3 different centres that used Getzlaf as a squeegee to clean the ice in head-to-head matchups.

Toews and his team have lost consecutive series to teams whose #1 centers are Mike Fisher and Paul Statsny.

 

[DanZ]

Toews and his team have lost consecutive series to teams whose #1 centers are Mike Fisher and Paul Statsny.

I'd certainly put Johansen as the 1C for Nashville.

 

[Terry Yake]

oh look, another thread about toews

 

[tony d]

Have always liked Getzlaf. Such a good player, If Anaheim gets to the Cup final he has to be considered for the Conn Smythe.

 

[habdynasty]

He reminds me of Messier , not just the bald head but the ability to take over a game. Powerful player.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Feel free to pick another center he got worked by in the last several years, there's plenty to choose from. 7 games here, 7 games there...it adds up.

Edit: here, I'll pick a couple from this thread:

Getz vs. Zetterberg: 1.56 GF/60, 2.09 GA/60, 42.9 GF%, 43.2 CF%
Getz vs. Toews: ZERO GF/60, 3.64 GA/60, 0 GF%, 62 CF% hmmmm

You see his numbers being fantastic otherwise, and that's been his 'problem' since he's been the guy for the Ducks.

Like I said before, it's a little bit of Thornton syndrome--fantastic player otherwise, monster playoff career--but people will remember the tough moments. He has to break through.

I mean, many of your fellow Ducks fans on page 1 said the same thing, just without the actual numbers--but don't let that distract you from a chance to take a shot at a Kings fan

Well it does help that when zett toews and kopitar are on the ice usually you are up against doughty keith and lidstrum... and while players like zett/toews(I wont list kopitar cause I honestly don't know where their offense comes from)... are basically in situations where the team around them is good enough to win without them, and their main job is to shut other teams best player down, id say its a bit easier.

Getzlaf up until kesler trade was basically our matchup center + our main source of offense, and the only real center hes played since we got kesler was toews (which someone mentioned early he was injured for). Not saying people are wrong in the way they critique getzlaf.. more of a situation where I think a lot more is asked from him then a lot of players in the league today.

 

[AngelDuck]

Feel free to pick another center he got worked by in the last several years, there's plenty to choose from. 7 games here, 7 games there...it adds up.

Edit: here, I'll pick a couple from this thread:

Getz vs. Zetterberg: 1.56 GF/60, 2.09 GA/60, 42.9 GF%, 43.2 CF%
Getz vs. Toews: ZERO GF/60, 3.64 GA/60, 0 GF%, 62 CF% hmmmm

You see his numbers being fantastic otherwise, and that's been his 'problem' since he's been the guy for the Ducks.

Like I said before, it's a little bit of Thornton syndrome--fantastic player otherwise, monster playoff career--but people will remember the tough moments. He has to break through.

I mean, many of your fellow Ducks fans on page 1 said the same thing, just without the actual numbers--but don't let that distract you from a chance to take a shot at a Kings fan

So he's had a couple bad series playing through injuries against good teams without having a #1 defenseman on his roster. Big deal

Kopitar in 12-13 playoffs: 9 points in 18 games

Toews in 12-13 playoffs: 14 points in 23 games


If Getzlaf ever produced that miserably in a playoff run his team wouldn't make it to the WCF and beyond.

Every has a bad series here and there, it's just hilarious Hawks and Kings fans come out of the woodworks to roast him in comparison to Toews/Kopitar for it when their guys have sucked in the playoffs their fair share

How bout Toews' 2 points in 4 games -5 rating this year against Nashville this year? I'd post about Kopitar's performance but he's the reason his team missed the playoffs this year

 

[Ducks in a row]

It's kind of a hard sell to say Getzlaf is better playoff performer than Toews since Toews has the superior performance. His first Cup and CS win is better than anything Getzlaf has ever produced. But Getzlaf has been more consistent in producing points, that's not arguable.

Getzlaf is a better playoff performer overall just not in game 6's and 7's and the last number of years he has had health problems and when a series goes longer it becomes harder especially when injured like Getzlaf has been.

Yes Toews best playoffs was better then Getzlaf but Toews also had a playoffs producing like a 2nd liner during one of his teams cup wins. If Ducks had been good enough to overcome any struggles from Getzlaf like Blackhawks did when Toews struggled things about Getzlaf would be viewed very differently from some people how place team success to much on a single player. Getzlaf is more important to the Ducks then Toews has been to Blackhawks. I would love to see Toews having to be his teams offensive engine and not having a elite defenseman and see them go far.

Crosby and Malkin are another conversation.

Exactly one of Getzlafs PPG playoff runs went more than two rounds. And fittingly, that was the run he criticized his own play to press as the Toews line stomped all over him to finish the series

Even taking the new playoff format into account, the qoc rises through the rounds, which is why pretty much every player, including crosby and malkin, sees production rates drop in rounds 3 and 4.

Getzlaf is a great playoff producer, and he probably gets more **** than he deserves for Anaheims playoff disappointments, but he still has a fair bit to prove in rounds 3 and 4.

Toews hasn't been that good in the cup finals but his team was just so good they could win with him not being that good the Ducks can't win without Getzlaf being so good. If your judging Getzlaf just by his team winning then your opinion is worth a grain of salt on playoff performances.

With less than 20 points.

That team was deep at forward, had 2 hof defenseman playing at high levels, and solid goaltending. Ducks defense obviously hasn't been the same, nor has their depth.

This is Getzlaf's shot to prove he can win without Niedermayer and Pronger.

Yes Getzlaf had less then 20 points but he still lead the Ducks in production and he also lead all our forwards in ice time.

Kane had less then 20 points in a cup win playing on a team with a great blueline. I would love to see teams win without having any great defenseman. Our best defenseman isn't as good as Keith was so it would be very very hard to win.

 

[AngelDuck]

The only players in the league that never have bad playoff series are Crosby, Malkin, and Kane.

Literally every other player in the league has struggled here or there and you can cherrypick some set of 7-15 games to suit your argument. To act like Getzlaf having a few bad games here and there makes him a worse playoff performer than his peers automatically is garbage

 

[JaegerDice]

Toews hasn't been that good in the cup finals but his team was just so good they could win with him not being that good the Ducks can't win without Getzlaf being so good. If your judging Getzlaf just by his team winning then your opinion is worth a grain of salt on playoff performances.

I'm not basing it purely on team success, though at some point it becomes pretty asinine to suggest that a team's success isn't predicated primarily on the performances of players at key positions, getting the most ice time, playing in the defining matchups, etc.

HFBoards hates crediting key players for team success (or team failure), because in their minds, players and teams are wholely separate, even though teams are made up of players! It's a delusional stance to take, but very popular in these parts.

Getzlaf has been part of the reason his team has reached the WCF once since 2008 every bit as often as he's been innocent witness to the failures of those around him.

Furthermore, the post you quoted was a retort to an argument about PPG. PPG in the playoffs can't be considered without context of how deep the team got. Beating up on 7th and 8th seeds in one-and-done and two-and-out performances will generally lead to higher PPGs than long playoff drives through th 3rd and 4th rounds where all players see their PPG drop as QoC rises.

But PPG is obviously not the only measure of playoff performance, and it's not the only measure Getzlaf comes up shot against the likes of Zetterberg, Kopitar, or Toews in their H2H matchups. Driving possession, goal diff, etc, (plus for those who watched every game, the eye test) are all factors for why Getzlaf gets criticized for his performances when the rubber really meets the road in the playoffs and for why many are still taking a 'wait and see' attitude to his performance thus far.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So he's had a couple bad series playing through injuries against good teams without having a #1 defenseman on his roster. Big deal

Kopitar in 12-13 playoffs: 9 points in 18 games

Toews in 12-13 playoffs: 14 points in 23 games

If Getzlaf ever produced that miserably in a playoff run his team wouldn't make it to the WCF and beyond.

Every has a bad series here and there, it's just hilarious Hawks and Kings fans come out of the woodworks to roast him in comparison to Toews/Kopitar for it when their guys have sucked in the playoffs their fair share

How bout Toews' 2 points in 4 games -5 rating this year against Nashville this year? I'd post about Kopitar's performance but he's the reason his team missed the playoffs this year

Of course. No one is perfect. But you know what the difference is between those guys?

I'll hang up now and let you roast yourself.

 

[AngelDuck]

Of course. No one is perfect. But you know what the difference is between those guys?

I'll hang up now and let you roast yourself.

One's golfing and one is getting ready for a game tonight?

Enjoy your roast

 

[Juicy Pop]

I mean, to be fair, in past playoff runs he himself has specially called himself out in the media for his play, specifically in elimination games. He's not an innocent witness to Anaheim's playoff disappointments, he's been key to a few of them.

Zetterberg, Kopitar and Toews all took turns using him as a squeegee to drag up and the down the ice, 3 years in a row.


He's a great player, and he's beasting right now, but I think a lot of people are waiting to see what he does if this series goes 7, or what he does in the WCF against NSH.

I doubt that you've ever actually watched a Ducks' playoff game during those years if you think that this is an accurate accounting.

 

[THall4]

The guy is an unstoppable force right now...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

One's golfing and one is getting ready for a game tonight?

Enjoy your roast

that's cute, I guess the real answer hurts too much.

Well it does help that when zett toews and kopitar are on the ice usually you are up against doughty keith and lidstrum... and while players like zett/toews(I wont list kopitar cause I honestly don't know where their offense comes from)... are basically in situations where the team around them is good enough to win without them, and their main job is to shut other teams best player down, id say its a bit easier.

Getzlaf up until kesler trade was basically our matchup center + our main source of offense, and the only real center hes played since we got kesler was toews (which someone mentioned early he was injured for). Not saying people are wrong in the way they critique getzlaf.. more of a situation where I think a lot more is asked from him then a lot of players in the league today.

The only thing I take issue with is the boldfaced. otherwise, I tend to agree. The team around said players is good and has to make a difference too--but it's up to the player to help win his matchup as well. In each of those cases, Getzlaf has been caved in by his opposing center. And each of those guys isn't a Kesler-style shutdown guy really, Toews and Kopitar are their teams #1 options, Zetterberg/Datsyuk was a pick-your-poison, and so on (edit: I guess you could make the case that Toews allows Kane to run amok, but I've seen otherwise).

Maybe I'm combing too finely, I'm not trying to go overboard because as I said a few posts back I find Getzlaf underrated in general (until he has a performance like he's having now, my goodness), but I think it's a fair criticism that since the Ducks '07 Cup, he hasn't been able to dominate "the other guy" head to head. And that's probably the ONLY thing that's separated him from that conversation in the meantime (feels like a lot of people just wrote him off after that one bad year when he's actually been more than fine since).

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I doubt that you've ever actually watched a Ducks' playoff game during those years if you think that this is an accurate accounting.

How would you describe it? Numbers posted above...

 

[190Octane]

So in the series against Chicago in '15 he had 0 goals and 8 assists playing with a sports hernia, and against the kings in '14 he had 1 goal and 7 assists playing with an injury bad enough that he wasn't even taking face offs if I remember correctly.

Against the red wings in his career..

'07 6 games, 2 goals 4 assists
'09 7 games, 2 goals 8 assists
'13 7 games, 3 goals 3 assists

So against Chicago, LA, and Detroit, in 34 games he has 38 points. Considering some of the injuries he was playing with, that's pretty damned impressive.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Corsi matters more

 

[Ducks in a row]

I'm not basing it purely on team success, though at some point it becomes pretty asinine to suggest that a team's success isn't predicated primarily on the performances of players at key positions, getting the most ice time, playing in the defining matchups, etc.

HFBoards hates crediting key players for team success (or team failure), because in their minds, players and teams are wholely separate, even though teams are made up of players! It's a delusional stance to take, but very popular in these parts.

Getzlaf has been part of the reason his team has reached the WCF once since 2008 every bit as often as he's been innocent witness to the failures of those around him.

Furthermore, the post you quoted was a retort to an argument about PPG. PPG in the playoffs can't be considered without context of how deep the team got. Beating up on 7th and 8th seeds in one-and-done and two-and-out performances will generally lead to higher PPGs than long playoff drives through th 3rd and 4th rounds where all players see their PPG drop as QoC rises.

But PPG is obviously not the only measure of playoff performance, and it's not the only measure Getzlaf comes up shot against the likes of Zetterberg, Kopitar, or Toews in their H2H matchups. Driving possession, goal diff, etc, (plus for those who watched every game, the eye test) are all factors for why Getzlaf gets criticized for his performances when the rubber really meets the road in the playoffs and for why many are still taking a 'wait and see' attitude to his performance thus far.

Even for a #1C they play less then half of a game only a goalie and maybe a defenseman (not many) play more then half a game. How important a single hockey player is get overvalued at least compared to those from other sports. Hockey is more of a team game it is about the team overall. Even Gretzky didn't win outside of Edmonton.

Yea a lot of fans like to say so and so is better because of championships won either forgetting or ignoring how much of a team effort it takes to win. A lot of fans just are not that bright.

Getzlaf has played well and his team lost. Ducks can never afford to have him produce like Toews did back in 2013 playoffs and come close to winning a cup let alone winning one.

And even against Chicago in the western finals he was PPG. We have seen Getzlaf produce well in all rounds.

Getzlaf has been the Ducks engine on both sides and has done so without a elite defenseman. How would Kopitar,Zetterberg and Toews have done against Getzlaf if they didn't have a elite defenseman and Getzlaf did?
Your right production alone doesn't mean everything (but it is for if you performed well offensively) because other things are factored in but lets not act like Getzlaf has had a elite defenseman helping him and that Getzlaf wasn't playing hurt (which he has been in the past few playoffs) and lets not act like the Ducks always had Kesler as his #2 so Getzlaf just had to focus on just producing. Getzlaf has been productive in the playoffs in his career even without a elite defenseman on his team even playing hurt even now without a elite winger and without a good #2C before.

Getzlaf > Toews overall in playoff performance especially when you look at everything. Blackhawks > Ducks in the playoffs.