Proposal: Getting a top 6 C

[Tysonson3]

Hey all just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the best top 6 c we could get for trading one of the "big 4". Looking for realistic proposals that are approximately 1 for 1. What do you think the value of our defencemen are?

Examples:

Ellis for Reinhart
Ekholm for Duchene
Subban for Stamkos

Are a few I think are close to value.
Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Pass entirely. Top 4 D are more important than 2C. We have some good middle-6 C in Bonino, Jarnkrok, maybe Sissons. That's good enough. I wouldn't touch the top 4 D to upgrade a less important position.

 

[Armourboy]

Poile has stated multiple times he isn't trading a top 4 D, at least not this season.

Value wise I don't think any are far off you posted, RNH+ would be another. TBH either Josi or Subban could probably land you just about anyone outside of Crosby, Malkin, McDavid or Mathews and you wouldn't be far off.

 

[Scoresberg]

You don't touch the Big 4. I think we another options but the best one is in Edmonton. Once Draisaitl gets his big fat contract, RNH will become expendable there, if nothing else then due to his contract. Expect Puljujarvi to become a star there and they can't afford RNH anyway. His value has dropped off and they can't take an expensive player back, I'm thinking Jarnkrok + one of our d-prospects could do it.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Subban for Stamkos, that would be a game-changer.

 

[Scoresberg]

If that guy could stay healthy, then sure.

 

[VoynovsParoleOfficer]

Subban for Stamkos, that would be a game-changer.

Tampa's offense would be anemic but:

Hedman
Subban
Stralsy
Dotchin
Sergachev
Koekkek

would be ridic for next 10 years ...OH and Girardi too??

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Hey all just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on the best top 6 c we could get for trading one of the "big 4". Looking for realistic proposals that are approximately 1 for 1. What do you think the value of our defencemen are?

Examples:

Ellis for Reinhart
Ekholm for Duchene
Subban for Stamkos

Are a few I think are close to value.
Thoughts?

No on the ekholms for duchene. As much as i want duchene i wouldnt want to give ekholms up to get him. Ekholms is coming into his own and becoming one of the best shutdown defenseman in the league. And plus hes in a great contract for 5 more years. Say what you want but you cant find a defenseman like ekholms under that kind of contract in the league. Hes worth way more than a 2 line center. Plus hes probably on one of the best pairing in the league because hes playing on the line with a top 5 best defenseman in the league pk subban. Ive been watching pk for awhile because every year hes been on my fantasy team and im telling you preds fans you just caught a glimpse of what pk can mean to us. Hes has all the tools to be the best defenseman in the league and i think well see more of that this year especially playing in lavys system again. I think he was just trying to fit in last year and not just play his game. Until the playoffs where he played great. Which i would say heck no to the subban for stamkos. I think stamkos but you dont give up one of the best defenseman in the league for nothing. I dont see why the habs gave him up. Ellis is the only top 4 i would be willing to give up but not for reinhart. Ellis for duchene wont work because the avs are looking for lhd not a rhd like ellis but i would package ellis with something to get 2 good players. Like ellis girard smith jarnkrok 2018 1st for duchene and lanenskog. Or ellis girard jarnkrok 2018 1st for jvr extended and bozak extended

 

[Dave is a killer]

I say we just hold onto our assets and make Sakic and other GM's sweat it out wrt Duchene.

 

[PredsHabs]

Pass entirely. Top 4 D are more important than 2C. We have some good middle-6 C in Bonino, Jarnkrok, maybe Sissons. That's good enough. I wouldn't touch the top 4 D to upgrade a less important position.

I disagree with 2C not being as important of a position as top 4D.

Look at the past few Stanley cup winners and tell me how important having 4 great defenseman was to them. Offense is very important and now that we have an actual 1C I think we will see how important having a good 2C will be. Bonino was a good signing but not as a 2C. We need more offense and I hope the youth are ready to step it up especially Fiala.

 

[Legionnaire11]

I'd much rather have a 2C than a 4D. It would depend on the players involved if I had to choose between 2C and 3D.

I think, especially with Subban, that he can carry a weaker partner on his pairing and still be very effective. So it could make Ekholm or Ellis expendable for the right trade, as much as it would stink to see one of them go.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Tampa's offense would be anemic but:

Hedman
Subban
Stralsy
Dotchin
Sergachev
Koekkek

would be ridic for next 10 years ...OH and Girardi too??

Not really, Stralman won't play that long. Dotchin and Koekkoek aren't that good and Sergachev is unknown.

They all have potential to be good, and obviously having Hedman and Subban would make any defense one of the better groups in the league. But I don't think that group listed is as good as the current Preds group.

Plus I wouldn't trade Subban for Stamkos, Stammer doesn't seem to be holding up that well, and he needs a great playmaking winger, plus a powerplay that focuses more on forwards controlling the puck down low. He's definitely a great player, and underrated in many aspects of the game. Not to mention that I don't think Yzerman would make the trade from his end either.

 

[MrJoshua]

I find it mildly amusing that after all the years of lamenting how the guy drafted to be a 1C never managed to become one, the one big hole on the team now would be filled perfectly by a prime Legwand.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

I disagree with 2C not being as important of a position as top 4D.

Look at the past few Stanley cup winners and tell me how important having 4 great defenseman was to them. Offense is very important and now that we have an actual 1C I think we will see how important having a good 2C will be. Bonino was a good signing but not as a 2C. We need more offense and I hope the youth are ready to step it up especially Fiala.

I got a question to this. Lets say the preds wouldnt of lost ryjo how much would of that change things in the finals? I believe we would be celebrating our first cup. That top 4d carried us through the playoffs. Take away 1 of the 4 we wouldnt of made it as far. Only reason we lost is because we lost our number 1 center. Im not saying that a #2 center couldnt of changed the series cuz it might of but without that top 4d we wouldnt of made it to the finals.
I agree about bonino i like the signing but i think hell make a better 3c than 2c. If we can somehow add a 2c and another point producer i could see us losing ellis. I just think poile is good with the team we got though. I just wish he would go for it all right now. I would love to see us make a move for duchene and landeskog or bozak and jvr. Yea we would lose a top 4 and some prospects but were a young enough team that it really would hit us for awhile.
Imagine these lines
Jofa
Landenskog duchene fiala
Hartnell bonino aberg
Watson sissons solamoki
Or
Jofa
Jvr bozak fiala
Hartnell bonino smith
Watson sissons aberg
With the d looking like this
Ekholms- subban
Josi- emlien(fabbro next year
Weber(carrier next year or 2nd) irwin(allard next year or 2)
Or at the TDL
JOFA
D sedin H sedin fiala
Hartnell bonino smith
Watson sissons aberg
With our current top 4

 

[Scoresberg]

I disagree with 2C not being as important of a position as top 4D.

Look at the past few Stanley cup winners and tell me how important having 4 great defenseman was to them. Offense is very important and now that we have an actual 1C I think we will see how important having a good 2C will be. Bonino was a good signing but not as a 2C. We need more offense and I hope the youth are ready to step it up especially Fiala.

Nope. That is not the only way to win. We came two wins away from the Cup with Jarny/Sissons as our 1-2 punch and with our Big 4 in the blueline. Had we had Joey, we probably would've won nevertheless who was the 2C. Right now, Bonino is better than all those mentioned, especially in the playoffs so even though losing Fisher we're probably deeper than ever down the middle now with Sissons taking leaps and bounds in his development.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Nope. That is not the only way to win. We came two wins away from the Cup with Jarny/Sissons as our 1-2 punch and with our Big 4 in the blueline. Had we had Joey, we probably would've won nevertheless who was the 2C. Right now, Bonino is better than all those mentioned, especially in the playoffs so even though losing Fisher we're probably deeper than ever down the middle now with Sissons taking leaps and bounds in his development.

Agreed. And top 3-4D were very important to the Cup runs of LA and Chicago. Pittsburgh is a pretty disingenuous example since they run generational players at 1C and 2C.

I still think we're barking up the wrong tree trading D for O. Our D is what makes us a truly great team. Adding a Duchene or RNH makes us stronger, but still pretty average up front, while losing an Ellis or Ekholm really saps the area we excel in over then rest of the pack.

 

[PredsHabs]

Nope. That is not the only way to win. We came two wins away from the Cup with Jarny/Sissons as our 1-2 punch and with our Big 4 in the blueline. Had we had Joey, we probably would've won nevertheless who was the 2C. Right now, Bonino is better than all those mentioned, especially in the playoffs so even though losing Fisher we're probably deeper than ever down the middle now with Sissons taking leaps and bounds in his development.

Nowhere in my statement does it say that is the only way to win.

My argument is that past Cup winners did not have a exceptional top 4 but most did have at least one star player on offense and most had good Centers on the top two lines. Since 2009 Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, and Los Angeles are the only teams to win the cup.

Kopitar/Carter
Crosby/Malkin
Bergeron/Krejci
Toews/????

So name one who had a top 4 like ours. Some had a top three that was good some had hot goalies.

Here is the thing our defense broke the scoring record in the playoffs because we depend on them for offense because our offense is weaker than others. If our offense improves we wouldn't have to depend on that top 4 to do the scoring.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Nowhere in my statement does it say that is the only way to win.

My argument is that past Cup winners did not have a exceptional top 4 but most did have at least one star player on offense and most had good Centers on the top two lines. Since 2009 Pittsburgh, Boston, Chicago, and Los Angeles are the only teams to win the cup.

Kopitar/Carter
Crosby/Malkin
Bergeron/Krejci
Toews/????

So name one who had a top 4 like ours. Some had a top three that was good some had hot goalies.

Here is the thing our defense broke the scoring record in the playoffs because we depend on them for offense because our offense is weaker than others. If our offense improves we wouldn't have to depend on that top 4 to do the scoring.

-Keith/Seabrook/Hammer/Oduya
-Doughty/Muzzin/Martinez/Mitchell(Scuderi, Greene)
-Chara/Seidenberg/Boychuk/Ference

Boston's was the weakest, but those are all pretty good top 4s. I would take Ellis/Ekholm as a 4 over any of theirs, but that doesn't negate their strength.

I would also contend our defense's production is by virtue of their quality, not as a result of the forwards' lack thereof.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Let's use as many statistical sources as we can to see if Bonino has production for the job.

Own the puck: There stats are mostly cumulative and their stereotype for a #2 is the following.

7 icetime 6 for Bonino (which means he's below average for icetime this he has less time to gain cumulative stats.)

5 goals 6 for Bonino (compared to other #2 centers he is a better goalscorer)

6 first assists 6 for Bonino. (He's on par with other #2 centers)

6 shot generation 5 for Bonino (Finally, a stat where he's lagging.)

5 for shot suppression 4 for Bonino (Another one where he is slightly lagging)

Fine, let's look at raw data and see how he ranks with other NHL centers.

Goals tied for 45th among centers
Assists tied for 81st among centers
Points tied for 75th among centers

Basic stats say he sucks. OK, time, how was he being used?

TOI/G 75th among centers. His production is on par with the time he's being used by. He played 3rd line minutes and produced on par with that.


Fisher replacement, his stats are similar to Fisher with less years. I think he can produce more at 2nd line minutes.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

Let's use as many statistical sources as we can to see if Bonino has production for the job.

Own the puck: There stats are mostly cumulative and their stereotype for a #2 is the following.

7 icetime 6 for Bonino (which means he's below average for icetime this he has less time to gain cumulative stats.)

5 goals 6 for Bonino (compared to other #2 centers he is a better goalscorer)

6 first assists 6 for Bonino. (He's on par with other #2 centers)

6 shot generation 5 for Bonino (Finally, a stat where he's lagging.)

5 for shot suppression 4 for Bonino (Another one where he is slightly lagging)

Fine, let's look at raw data and see how he ranks with other NHL centers.

Goals tied for 45th among centers
Assists tied for 81st among centers
Points tied for 75th among centers

Basic stats say he sucks. OK, time, how was he being used?

TOI/G 75th among centers. His production is on par with the time he's being used by. He played 3rd line minutes and produced on par with that.


Fisher replacement, his stats are similar to Fisher with less years. I think he can produce more at 2nd line minutes.

I understand people want to believe bonino is a 2nd line center but hes not. You use stats im gonna use this. Bonino has been a 2c twice in his career. He was a 2c in vancover the next year he was traded. He was a 2c in Anaheim the next year he was traded. Maybe the 3rd times a charm. You look at those stats where everybody was focused on crosby and malkin. Being the number 2 you will have to go against tougher match ups hopefully hell succeed but his past record says he wont. We need a true number 2 center

 

[BigFatCat999]

I understand people want to believe bonino is a 2nd line center but hes not. You use stats im gonna use this. Bonino has been a 2c twice in his career. He was a 2c in vancover the next year he was traded. He was a 2c in Anaheim the next year he was traded. Maybe the 3rd times a charm. You look at those stats where everybody was focused on crosby and malkin. Being the number 2 you will have to go against tougher match ups hopefully hell succeed but his past record says he wont. We need a true number 2 center

I'll gamble he can at minimum be a #2 shared with Jarnkrok. Duchene is expensive and Bozak might be a better option.

 

[GeauxPreds1]

I'll gamble he can at minimum be a #2 shared with Jarnkrok. Duchene is expensive and Bozak might be a better option.

Jarnkrok isnt no 2c and bonino isnt one either. 2 3rd line centers dont make a 2nd line center. I would go after bozak if i was poile but he wont. He thinks that bonino is a 2nd line center as well. Poile strong suit isnt centers thats why it toom him so long to find a number 1. I would go after bozak and jvr. Lets get some scoring along with our number 1 line and defenseman

 

[Armourboy]

Bonino is going to get his chance, but I think that is the reason Poile left some cap space just in case he needs to make a move.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

You don't touch the Big 4. I think we another options but the best one is in Edmonton. Once Draisaitl gets his big fat contract, RNH will become expendable there, if nothing else then due to his contract. Expect Puljujarvi to become a star there and they can't afford RNH anyway. His value has dropped off and they can't take an expensive player back, I'm thinking Jarnkrok + one of our d-prospects could do it.

I'd do Jarnkrok and Carrier, even though I'd rather just trade Jarnkrok or Carrier straight up (There's no way they'd accept an offensive AHL Dman for RNH, so count just Carrier out).

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I'd much rather have a 2C than a 4D. It would depend on the players involved if I had to choose between 2C and 3D.

I think, especially with Subban, that he can carry a weaker partner on his pairing and still be very effective. So it could make Ekholm or Ellis expendable for the right trade, as much as it would stink to see one of them go.

I'd rather Ellis go over Ekholm. Contract and true effectiveness plays a role. Ellis became very overrated after an unsustainable regular season and an even more unsustainable playoff series against St. Louis. Whereas Ekholm was underrated the entire year, fantastic underlying numbers, and was a beast in the playoffs.

Fun fact: Ekholm against non-elite competition has the best relative shot suppression metrics in the entire league. Again elite competition he only trails behind Hjalmarsson, Vlasic, Lindholm, Giordano, Stralman, Tanev, and occasionally Brodie (Not in 2016-2017 though) in shot suppression metrics.