General COVID-19 talk, NHL remains suspended MOD Warning post #1

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KINGS17

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Absolutely, that is the point. Twitter/Google/Facebook/Youtube are not "the public square"
Depends on how you view them. Those businesses were started under the premise they were merely platforms (i.e. a stage in the public square) for people to post their views. If they are not platforms for all opinions, no matter how vile and disgusting those opinions might be, then they are no longer entitled to some of the protection they currently enjoy. Once a site becomes an editor of content, they should be considered to be a publisher.
 

BamBam1031

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Aug 8, 2008
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There is nothing illegal about protesting. I don't need to absolve them of anything. It's a 1st Amendment right.

Attributing looting and rioting to COVID-19 lockdowns alone is completely ignorant.

I didn't. In the post you deleted, I said it played a large part. Ignorant is thinking that it does not. Please do not attribute things to me that I did not say. And please try to comprehend what is written.



See, this is where you keep going off the rails.

The "people like you," "people like me" stuff is otherism bullshit.

I was addressing the poster that made the "chicken little" remark, not you. If you do not like "otherism," then start with him, Mr. Moderator. Oh, right. His politics align with yours. Nevermind. Carry on.


The irony about the rights lecture, of course, is that you're arguing above for them to be taken away when you can't draw the distinction between peaceful protesters and violent rioters.

Again, I never said protestors didn't have the right to protest. They absolutely do. But you're ignorant if you think these "protests" are about George Floyd anymore. It's already been repeated ad nauseam by both Democratic and Republican leaders that it's gone beyond simple protesting. The point I made earlier was that Obama explicitly criticized PROTESTERS that became violent. Here: "On the other hand, the small minority of folks who’ve resorted to violence in various forms, whether out of genuine anger or mere opportunism, are putting innocent people at risk." People that are resorting to violence out of anger are PROTESTERS. Just because you label one differently doesn't make it so.

COVID-19 lockdowns were and still are a delicate rights conversation because your rights affect others--ie your right to go out on the town and get drunk at a bar with a million other people is at odds with asymptomatic carriers; it's not your 'right' to go get everyone sick.

You're conflating rights with responsibilities again, just like the Chicken Little poster. They are related, but they are not the same. I agree with you and him to a very, very large degree about responsibilities. I disagree that your ideas of responsibilities give you the authority to take away my rights.

I can see that having a conversation that quarantines were considered 'constitutional' won't have an impact on you so I won't even go there, but it was alluded to above where the conflict seems to be with "my" individual rights vs. a collective "our" rights. What you are 'allowed' to do stops at the point it hurts someone else. Yes, there will be great diversity of thought on where that line is and as you can see from a lot of pages here we have been able to appreciate that. But you can guard your rights tightly without insulting everyone else that may have different thoughts. Especially when it comes down to issues surrounding a virus that we're sadly still trying to understand and deal with.

Edit: and if you want to cry "censorship" maybe you should stop writing utter bullshit like "Liberals follow the lead of their unelected social media overlords" and attacking people's viewpoints on things other than their merit. Not everyone follows the party talking points and I'm trying to give you the credit that you don't either.

IIRC, you were the one that said the idea of government overreach during COVID-19 was a "hilarity." Let me give you a concrete example, and then you can decide which of us is filled with "talking point" BS.

I own rental properties in LA. Because of COVID-19, Eric Garcetti used his "emergency powers" to declare that landlords could not evict tenants for non-payment of rent for TWELVE MONTHS. Covid, no covid, it didn't matter. 12 months. Meaning, after filing the Unlawful Detainer (which could take several months now with the case backlog), tenants could live at my properties for something like 18 months rent free.

Are you familiar with the 5th Amendment? Not the right to remain silent part, the part about due process. Government can't deprive me of life, liberty, or property (rent) without due process. This clown unilaterally declared free rent to everyone for a full year. What about my taxes? What about my mortgage? What about my family? The attorney we have on retainer is teaming up with some other guys for a lawsuit based on....wait for it....Constitutional grounds, but who knows how long that will take?

Hilarty? Hardly. Reality. For you, it may be hypothetical. For others, not so much. Maybe you shouldn't insult them with your drivel.
 

Bandit

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Jul 23, 2005
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Depends on how you view them. Those businesses were started under the premise they were merely platforms (i.e. a stage in the public square) for people to post their views. If they are not platforms for all opinions, no matter how vile and disgusting those opinions might be, then they are no longer entitled to some of the protection they currently enjoy. Once a site becomes an editor of content, they should be considered to be a publisher.
Nah it doesn’t depend. They started as private companies, they’re still private companies. Despite Trump’s executive order, dude f***ed up. He built his entire propaganda machine on top of a platform he has no control over. They could cancel his account tomorrow and all he could do is suck his own dick. I’d love to witness the meltdown if that happened, but I doubt there’s a live stream from his bunker.

This site has moderators. This site censors content. It’s no different just because Twitter has more users.
 

BamBam1031

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Aug 8, 2008
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Depends on how you view them. Those businesses were started under the premise they were merely platforms (i.e. a stage in the public square) for people to post their views. If they are not platforms for all opinions, no matter how vile and disgusting those opinions might be, then they are no longer entitled to some of the protection they currently enjoy. Once a site becomes an editor of content, they should be considered to be a publisher.

This man gets it.
 

KINGS17

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Apr 6, 2006
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Nah it doesn’t depend. They started as private companies, they’re still private companies. Despite Trump’s executive order, dude f***ed up. He built his entire propaganda machine on top of a platform he has no control over. They could cancel his account tomorrow and all he could do is suck his own dick. I’d love to witness the meltdown if that happened, but I doubt there’s a live stream from his bunker.

This site has moderators. This site censors content. It’s no different just because Twitter has more users.
This site is a publisher of content, and is not under the protections provided under Section 230. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. will tell you they are public platforms, and therefore are protected by Section 230.

The First Amendment protects free speech, including hate speech, but Section 230 shields websites from liability for content created by their users. It permits internet companies to moderate their sites without being on the hook legally for everything they host.
 

Bandit

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This site is a publisher of content, and is not under the protections provided under Section 230. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc. will tell you they are public platforms, and therefore are protected by Section 230.

The First Amendment protects free speech, including hate speech, but Section 230 shields websites from liability for content created by their users. It permits internet companies to moderate their sites without being on the hook legally for everything they host.
I’m well aware that you’re reading directly from his playbook. It’s not going to work.
 

KINGS17

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I’m well aware that you’re reading directly from his playbook. It’s not going to work.
I am not reading from anyone's playbook. You should do a little research, read Section 230, and search why the social media companies support Section 230.

I'm well aware you don't open your mind to any opinions with which you happen to disagree.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

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IIRC, you were the one that said the idea of government overreach during COVID-19 was a "hilarity." Let me give you a concrete example, and then you can decide which of us is filled with "talking point" BS.

I own rental properties in LA. Because of COVID-19, Eric Garcetti used his "emergency powers" to declare that landlords could not evict tenants for non-payment of rent for TWELVE MONTHS. Covid, no covid, it didn't matter. 12 months. Meaning, after filing the Unlawful Detainer (which could take several months now with the case backlog), tenants could live at my properties for something like 18 months rent free.

Are you familiar with the 5th Amendment? Not the right to remain silent part, the part about due process. Government can't deprive me of life, liberty, or property (rent) without due process. This clown unilaterally declared free rent to everyone for a full year. What about my taxes? What about my mortgage? What about my family? The attorney we have on retainer is teaming up with some other guys for a lawsuit based on....wait for it....Constitutional grounds, but who knows how long that will take?

Hilarty? Hardly. Reality. For you, it may be hypothetical. For others, not so much. Maybe you shouldn't insult them with your drivel.


No, he didn't.

Since you own property, I'd expect you to read not even the fine print...the very large print. They can't just up and decide "well f*** this landlord, I'm withholding rent for the next 18 months, yippee."

  • "Nonpayment of rent, late charges, or any other fees. Landlords will not be able to evict a Tenant if the Tenant can show an inability to pay rent and/or related charges due to financial losses related to:
      • A presumed or confirmed diagnosis of COVID-19 or caring for a household or family member who is presumed or diagnosed with COVID-19;
      • Layoff, loss of hours, or other income reduction resulting from business closure or other economic or employer losses due to COVID-19;
      • Compliance with a recommendation from the County’s Health Officer to stay home, self-quarantine, or avoid congregation with others during the state of emergency;
      • Extraordinary out-of-pocket medical expenses related to diagnosis and testing for and/or treatment of COVID-19; or,
      • Child care needs arising from school closures related to COVID-19.
      • The state of emergency regarding COVID-19; or
      • Following government-recommended COVID-19 precautions.
    • A No Fault eviction reason, unless necessary for health or safety reasons
    • COVID-19 related violations for temporarily housing unauthorized occupants or pets or causing a nuisance."
Unless you're one of the severely overleveraged AirBnB scumbags I sincerely doubt that all your tenants suddenly have documented proof of an inability to pay rent due to COVID-19 for an entire year. And, if by some unfortunate coincidence they are, I would expect you as a landlord to exercise some sympathy AND this is the part where they would tell any good business owners to have some reserves for at least a few months worth of vacancy. If not, that's just bad business, not a rights infringement. And Re: rights--your tenants have rights too, especially in california--and that's where the conflict lies. your right to collect rent collides with their right to not have the rug pulled out from under them immediately following a force majeure loss of employment. Unless you forcibly had your eyes closed at the time, you may remember right when this hit and people started losing their jobs a lot of landlords were immediately filing evicition notices...I'm curious to know what your interpretation of rights for those tenants were? To me, their right to shelter in a crisis is an overriding factor, and if you're worried about your mortgage, every smart property owner I know that's run into payment issues is getting sympathy from their servicers to make payments on the back end of the mortgage instead of immediately. Yet, I know more than one landlord who is leveraging the forbearance yet still collecting rent, sadly. Again, this sounds like a conflict you have being unable to tell where "my" rights end and "others" rights begin. You've demonstrated a lot of that, especially in going out of your way to illustrate that "not harming others" is a responsibility rather than a right. Get out of here with that.

Now, I agree I'm not a big fan of "executive orders" and "emergency powers" so I think you DO have a legitimate gripe to a degree there, albeit a temporary one. But good luck with that lawsuit, I'm pretty confident they'll actually rule, ironically, in favor of your tenants' right to property over yours.
 
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KingLB

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Oct 29, 2008
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Yes, I think calling this Civil War II is ridiculous. President Trump indicated if local authorities continue to allow looting and rioting, he would deploy the military in the form of the national guard to enforce the law. He did so while reaffirming the rights of individuals to protest peacefully.

While tear gassing those very same protesters, so he could go take a photo op in front of a church he hadn’t been to in over a year...

That said, no way civil war II, just Trumps usual bluster. He is probably dialing it up another notch, now that his bravado has been tarnished after it came out he ran to a bunker when a few protestors got within a few football fields of him.
 

KINGS17

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While tear gassing those very same protesters, so he could go take a photo op in front of a church he hadn’t been to in over a year...

That said, no way civil war II, just Trumps usual bluster. He is probably dialing it up another notch, now that his bravado has been tarnished after it came out he ran to a bunker when a few protestors got within a few football fields of him.
You understand the Secret Service makes recommendations and the call when things get a little dicey around the White House, right?
 

Bandit

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Jul 23, 2005
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I am not reading from anyone's playbook. You should do a little research, read Section 230, and search why the social media companies support Section 230.

I'm well aware you don't open your mind to any opinions with which you happen to disagree.
Just like science, the law has f*** all to do with opinion. Donnie should have read the Ts&Cs:

“We may suspend or terminate your account or cease providing you with all or part of the Services at any time for any or no reason”

As it turns out, he’s out of his element. But I’m sure if there’s a way to slither out of it, some shitsucking lawyer will find it.

edit: apologies to any shitsucking lawyers out there.
 
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KINGS17

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Who said I didn’t?
Your post sounded as if President Trump ran away and hid in the basement based on his decision alone. Your post said, "he ran to a bunker". How should we interpret your post?
 

KINGS17

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Apr 6, 2006
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Just like science, the law has f*** all to do with opinion. Donnie should have read the Ts&Cs:

“We may suspend or terminate your account or cease providing you with all or part of the Services at any time for any or no reason”

As it turns out, he’s out of his element. But I’m sure if there’s a way to slither out of it, some shitsucking lawyer will find it.
Hey, repeal the protections provided under Section 230, call them publishers, and they can do anything they want. They can also then be sued for things they allow to be posted on their sites. I don't think they want to put forth the kind of effort it would take to become editors.

I am fine with repealing Section 230, and so are many on the left and right side of the aisle in Congress.
 

Bandit

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Hey, repeal the protections provided under Section 230, call them publishers, and they can do anything they want. They can also then be sued for things they allow to be posted on their sites. I don't think they want to put forth the kind of effort it would take to become editors.
They already can do whatever they want so long as they can prove Donnie clicked “I agree” when he signed up.

I wonder what all the conservative sites out there with comments sections are thinking right about now? NO liability there if 230 is shitcanned, I’m sure.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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To be fair social media networks are gonna be facing all sorts of lawsuits over who is the arbiter of truth, creators vs. curators, etc.

It's a relatively new medium but one where people are getting lots of their news so the question of legal responsibility vs. censorship is a fair one and an evolving one

With respect to COVID-19 and ongoing civil strife it's also an unfortunately timely and dangerous one.

Technically right now they are private companies and can play by their rules but I expect that to change in some manner. I'm not sure I have the answer as to what's 'fair' there.
 
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KingLB

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Your post sounded as if President Trump ran away and hid in the basement based on his decision alone. Your post said, "he ran to a bunker". How should we interpret your post?

You inferred a lot from 5 words. Freud might say you are projecting your own personal thoughts on the man.
 

KINGS17

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They already can do whatever they want so long as they can prove Donnie clicked “I agree” when he signed up.

I wonder what all the conservative sites out there with comments sections are thinking right about now? NO liability there if 230 is shitcanned, I’m sure.

Pretty sure it is more about the equal protection clause and not slander. You can't edit and delete opinions with which you don't agree, then only allow the opinions with which you agree to remain posted. Social media could be heading for the same type of situation we witnessed in cable news. CNN, MSNBC, and the news on the major networks gave birth to Fox News, whatever Glenn Beck's network is called, and a few others. We could easy see someone start a "conservative" social media platform, but from a consumer standpoint I would rather just see the current bunch not try to become editors.
 

Bandit

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You can't edit and delete opinions with which you don't agree, then only allow the opinions with which you agree to remain posted.

As a private entity, yes you can. f***ing hilarious that suddenly it's no problem for the government to be infringing on the rights of private businesses once it suits them. MOD
 
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KINGS17

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As a private entity, yes you can. f***ing hilarious that suddenly it's no problem for the government to be infringing on the rights of private businesses once it suits them. MOD EDIT
I see you still haven't bothered to educate yourself on Section 230.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
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Pretty sure it is more about the equal protection clause and not slander. You can't edit and delete opinions with which you don't agree, then only allow the opinions with which you agree to remain posted. Social media could be heading for the same type of situation we witnessed in cable news. CNN, MSNBC, and the news on the major networks gave birth to Fox News, whatever Glenn Beck's network is called, and a few others. We could easy see someone start a "conservative" social media platform, but from a consumer standpoint I would rather just see the current bunch not try to become editors.

That's not entirely accurate, the bastardization of the news networks started with the annihilation of the fairness doctrine. Prior to that it was vital to present the facts and only the facts or balanced coverage from various viewpoints. Once that was gone, the networks were free to editorialize, entertain, and become full-on liberal/conservative networks, which is a protection of 1A rights but a clear devolution of the utility of the news networks. If anything, now they CAN edit and delete opinions with which they don't agree, ironically it was 'better' from an equal protection standpoint before, but higher regulated. Pick your poison, really.

There are a few conservative-focused social media alternatives but they don't do well, but unless the fairness doctrine returns in some form for social media, I don't think that expectation can be met.

To try to cycle this back to COVID-19--it sucks having bad data but it also sucks having that data get an editorial spin.
 
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King'sPawn

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They already can do whatever they want so long as they can prove Donnie clicked “I agree” when he signed up.

I wonder what all the conservative sites out there with comments sections are thinking right about now? NO liability there if 230 is shitcanned, I’m sure.

@KINGS17 is right about this. Twitter and social media have certain protections they are leveraging that HFBoards doesn't.

Trump's executive order was basically trying to re-define Section 230.

There is a lawyer who did two very good and informative videos discussing the draft of the order as well as the final copy, as well as the ramifications.

He does a good job keeping it neutral for the most part. Both videos take some time, but they are a must as far as translating legalese.





Long story short, there are valid reasons to question what Twitter did to Trump's tweets, even from a leftist point of view. The questions to ask are A) is the executive order the right platform to address it? and B) Is this particular executive order addressing the issue properly?
 

Bandit

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@KINGS17 is right about this. Twitter and social media have certain protections they are leveraging that HFBoards doesn't.

Trump's executive order was basically trying to re-define Section 230.

There is a lawyer who did two very good and informative videos discussing the draft of the order as well as the final copy, as well as the ramifications.

He does a good job keeping it neutral for the most part. Both videos take some time, but they are a must as far as translating legalese.





Long story short, there are valid reasons to question what Twitter did to Trump's tweets, even from a leftist point of view. The questions to ask are A) is the executive order the right platform to address it? and B) Is this particular executive order addressing the issue properly?

Being right about HFBoards being different than Twitter is one thing. The rest is a long way from being settled. As I said I find it very telling that the “government needs to get out of the way of the people” crowd is suddenly A-Ok with this bullshit because reasons.

Also “what Twitter did to trumps tweets”. Hmm...

“Social media should not fact check posts” says child molester Mark Zuckerberg
 
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