crashthenet
Registered User
The trade clearly is Mayfield and Engvall for Seth Jones.
GDT: GDT #55 New York Islanders @ Pittsburgh Penguins | February 20th | 7 PM | F/5-4 OTW
- Thread starter xECK29x
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Pass... Pass... then go for the change.
Sit down. Look up. See gamewinner.
Nice way to cap off the evening.
Alright, how many games is it now where Sorokin has been in net for 4 or more goals against?
And in how many of those games did we have a 2-goal lead at some point?
Statistically, the regularity with which this scenario sets in is hitting comical proportions.
Just imagine how bad It'd be if we didn't have a guy of Sorokin's caliber in net?!?!
Another display of why this team should not be invested in at the trade deadline. They can sink or swim as is, but no additions are going to magically make this team stop losing leads. None.
And come playoff time, it's lights out if you don't know how to close the door.
***
Will DEFINITELY take the 2 points, but this was the worst team to give up a point to. Really needed the Pens to go empty here.
We scored some really nice goals tonight, even if Nedejlkovic surely would like to have a couple of them back, most especially the gamewinner.
Nice time for Pelech to score his first of the season, but a straight-up wrister from that distance shouldn't be getting past an NHL goalie.
Amazing that so many Dmen were in on goals, but that Dobson wasn't one of them.
Now, if they could just do that when he IS in on them...
Off to St. Louis. We're facing the Blues at basically their highest point in the season thus far, so I'm expecting another difficult doozy.
I recently watched them a bit and was completely shocked at how good this guy Toropchenko looked.
And in how many of those games did we have a 2-goal lead at some point?
Statistically, the regularity with which this scenario sets in is hitting comical proportions.
Just imagine how bad It'd be if we didn't have a guy of Sorokin's caliber in net?!?!
Another display of why this team should not be invested in at the trade deadline. They can sink or swim as is, but no additions are going to magically make this team stop losing leads. None.
And come playoff time, it's lights out if you don't know how to close the door.
***
Will DEFINITELY take the 2 points, but this was the worst team to give up a point to. Really needed the Pens to go empty here.
We scored some really nice goals tonight, even if Nedejlkovic surely would like to have a couple of them back, most especially the gamewinner.
Nice time for Pelech to score his first of the season, but a straight-up wrister from that distance shouldn't be getting past an NHL goalie.
Amazing that so many Dmen were in on goals, but that Dobson wasn't one of them.
Now, if they could just do that when he IS in on them...
Off to St. Louis. We're facing the Blues at basically their highest point in the season thus far, so I'm expecting another difficult doozy.
I recently watched them a bit and was completely shocked at how good this guy Toropchenko looked.
leeroggy
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- Jan 3, 2010
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Chapin . . . you've become a hater! Enzo says hi!
Anyhow, Toropchenko has 9G/4A in 55 games . . . is he our Wahlstrom?
LOTS of teams are giving up lots of 2-goal leads this season, it's been really weird around the league. Heck, back in 2010-11 for example, leaguewide a 2-goal lead was relinquished 40% of the time!
What's the most dangerous lead in hockey? One blogger figured it out
You always heard about how the two or three-goal lead in the NHL was the most dangerous lead in hockey. One blogger actually figured out what was the most dangerous lead in the NHL last season.
www.nbcsports.com
Does the league put out official rulings/explanations on reviewed/challenged goals?
It was pretty interesting last night when no one in the booth knew the rule as to whether the puck need to simply be touched or fully possessed (and if so - what constitutes possession) for the hand pass to be moot. I'll give Butch a pass as he's still calling for two line passes in the booth, but Brendan and Hickey are pretty savvy guys. It was clear that they had no idea what the rule was and were just fishing.
From my laymen's perspective, it seems that they got it right (I would think that Engvall's touch negated the hand pass) but Roy was absolutely livid so maybe his understanding is different.
It was pretty interesting last night when no one in the booth knew the rule as to whether the puck need to simply be touched or fully possessed (and if so - what constitutes possession) for the hand pass to be moot. I'll give Butch a pass as he's still calling for two line passes in the booth, but Brendan and Hickey are pretty savvy guys. It was clear that they had no idea what the rule was and were just fishing.
From my laymen's perspective, it seems that they got it right (I would think that Engvall's touch negated the hand pass) but Roy was absolutely livid so maybe his understanding is different.
PK Cronin
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From the rulebook:
The question comes down to whether or not Engvall's touch was being looked at as deflected or not. I'm guessing they're saying it isn't a deflection because he intentionally tried to make contact with the puck verses the puck just hitting him and redirecting.
But then it also hit the Pens' player's stick. Does that negate the hand pass (even if Engvall's touch didn't?)?
I hear you on Engvall's intent but I'm not sure intent to play the puck equals "no deflection" (players intend to deflect the puck all the time)....but I really have no idea on this one.
periferal
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- Jul 5, 2007
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You never were in favor of a rebuild? Because, if you were and you got your wish and the Isles did start a rebuild a couple of years ago, then Horvat is never here in the first place. Sorokin would not have extended with the Isles and would be gone. You may as well trade Barzal since he'll be well over 30 by the time the team is in the playoffs again. So you're left with Dobson, but after the 7 or 8 years it would take for the rebuild to come to fruition Dobson would be old enough that the people in favor of a rebuild in the first place would be saying he's got to go for futures.
Do you not get the concept that every move a GM/Lou makes that changes how the trajectory of the team should go moving forward? One you remove assets from the organization and add new ones it creates a whole new scenario of how you should chase a Cup.
And the Horvat trade was the best trade Lou has made since he's been here. But now that he is part of the organization the path forward is different than 2 years ago.
And also even if you do a total rebuild young studs are what you build around so I think Dobson is ideally the last player that you'd trade (of that 4). But as you mentioned, it might take 7 years or more to do a rebuild. It wouldn't have to take that long if Lou had been drafting more prospects these past 5 years, but he's left the farm system literally barren so a rebuild would take just about as long as possible. Forget young studs in the minors...The Isles might have any NHL players in their system at all, and this is 100% on Lou and the way he goes about GMing.
And at the end of day even with Sorokin, Horvat, Dobson, and Barzal this team is bottom 10 in wins, goal differential, and going to miss the playoffs. The Cup champion isn't going to have any of those 4 players and thus they are not needed to win it all. We often fall in love with the best players on our favorite teams, but many different combination of players can lead you where you to a championship.
Maybe, but sounds like you don't know the different between "shitting" on someone and just lying about what they said.
PK Cronin
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I didn't get a great look because I skip most stoppages when watching on delay (I watched the replay once and then went to the verdict) but if it was the Penguin who touched it with his hand then I don't see why it wouldn't negate the hand pass.
It's an interesting question and I'm not sure either. The rule is rather vague. If I were the official and I saw it touch Engvall's stick (even slightly) I think I'd negate the hand pass.
Throttle
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- Sep 22, 2020
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Oh no, Lou tried to compete, probably because that’s what the owner with $1B arena wanted. The owner and Lou invested in top UFAs and resigned their own prospects.
The above were ALL sour points from the fanbase for years.
The isles had their gong show ownership moment, it yielded what you have on the ice in front of you. Maybe those players aren’t good enough? Such is life, and it happens.
Yes, yes, yes...
Then follow that up with:
- C Nelson, D Aho und RW Fasching to Nashville
for
- RW Evangelista, C Jankowski, LW Yegor Afansyev, D Ryan Ufko, as well as NAS 2024 1st & Tampa's 2024 2nd
- C Pageau and LW Iskhakov to Boston
for
- LW Debrusk, D Alex Regula, and C Dans Locmelis
and then
- Wahlstrom and Tampa's 2nd rounder to Anaheim
for
- C Henrique, RW Sam Colangelo, and D Ian Moore
So, uh, changing on the fly while still able to compete in the here and now. Opening some contractual space. Establishing by far the best right side defense in the league. Establishing options to move out another heavy contract or two. Creating system depth.
Doing all that while not only retaining one's own first, but gaining another.
Wait, what? The other guys ain't doing those deals???
Thing is, we've seen players kick the puck, it then hits something (usually the goalie) and slides in. They wave off the goal as having been kicked in.
But it wasn't actually "kicked in". It got redirected in by the opponent, no matter how it went at the opponent.
Granted, this is another beast entirely, but my experience having played semi-pro hockey is that I witnessed a handful of goals where a player is simply near or in front of the net, a shot goes off his foot/leg, then hits another player or the goalie, or both, and then goes in.
And the refs still disallowed it.
The greatest display of incompetence I ever experienced was in a game where we down 4-3 in the dwindling moments of the contest. One of our players busted his balls to ge to the corner in the offensive zone and whips the puck to the net, like from behind the goal line. He then got CRUSHED by the Dman right as he did it, so everyone in the house was watching that. But the puck hit something in front of the net and went in. The opponents immediately started screaming from the bench "No goal, no goal. It was kicked in. Kicking motion.".
So the two refs meet up (no linesmen) and we captains were there. Both refs admit to not seeing how the puck got in the net, but the one looks at the other and says, "I've made every damn call in this game. You haven't done shit. So this one's yours. You have to make this." The other guy says he literally didn't see how it went in because he's watching the play in the corner and was furthest from the net of the two. The other guy tells him it doesn't matter, he's finally gotta make a decision. So the guy, obviously in over his head, just says "Ok. Uh, no goal".
I laugh and say, "Wait. You both know it was in. You both don't know how. Meaning neither of you saw any kicking motion to put it in. The only call you CAN make is a good goal. You literally cannot make any other call, as much as that MAY suck for the other team." The authoratative ref just tells me to go back to the bench unless I want a game misconduct and immediately headed to center ice for the faceoff.
So, that's my story of the day.
Hope you liked it.
Throttle
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Nashville was up on Vegas and outshot them in the 3rd, yes, the team with the lead outshot the other team.
In the Isles game, isles had almost a 10 point shot advantage with the lead, then they end up outshot…
This team loses games bc they stop playing with a lead.
In the Isles game, isles had almost a 10 point shot advantage with the lead, then they end up outshot…
This team loses games bc they stop playing with a lead.
This team stops playing with a lead because when the opponent comes at them with a push they suddenly can't execute basics, run around the D zone, can't stay on their skates. The Isles get overpowered by skilled teams. There are a lot of them in this league. The Penguins are still one of them.
Roy is finding out he doesn't have enough players who are capable of playing his man defense for 60 minutes.
Glory Days
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LeapOnOver
Mackenzie is a hack!
Judging by those rules I'd also argue there was no advantage. The Pens player pushed the puck ahead and only because Engval deflected it in a different direction did the advantage occur. If we start taking goals like this away, that's pretty alarming. It was a terrible challenge imo. Roy will learn from it.
LeapOnOver
Mackenzie is a hack!
That first trade seems like an overpay for Nashville. Aho and Fasching are just warm bodies so that's an awful lot to give up for Nelson.
doublechili
For all intensive purposes, your nuts
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You're kind of all over the place and I'm not sure where you stand. If you believed that the team needed a rebuild a couple of years ago, and you think the team is in even worse shape now (beyond the help of a mere retool?), then why not still rebuild? At this moment, Barzal, Dobson, Sorokin and Romanov have zero trade protection, and the Isles could get a huge haul for those guys. Nelson has a limited NTC, so he could be dealt as well, also for a haul. If you trade those guys, then everybody else with a NTC would waive because they'd want to get out of town (Horvat, Pulock, etc.).
If Lou was fired tomorrow, would you root for a rebuild or a retool?
periferal
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There is no magic pill here, but doing a total rebuild would the the surest (and longest) way to get back to Cup contention. I don't know who the next Isles GM could be, but if Lou stops trading 1st/2nd rounders and that GM is allowed to use them, uses them successfully, and sprinkles in some very savvy trades and FA signings...It's possible the Isles could get back to Cup contention in the next 2-3 years. This of course also assuming that Sorokin starts playing like he was in the previous 2 seasons.
However what I am sure if is that if Lou stays on the job we will not only get further away from Cup contention, but will also delay any potential return to it further into the future. This philosophy of continually trading the best chance of getting top young talent to keep going "all in" with an aging and average roster is a recipe for failure.
doublechili
For all intensive purposes, your nuts
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Yeah, I think with a smart retool the team could be a legit Cup contender in relatively short order. I'd rather see them keep the '24 1st, except I always leave the door open to trading the 1st round pick in the right deal. But the return would need to be a young enough and good enough player to make it worthwhile.
Unfortunately, it's not the surest. Plenty of teams out there have been taking that route and even have all the key pieces, but haven't gotten close (yet?).
But as mentioned in the past, all the teams that have won multiple Cups over the past 15 years did so with their own self-drafted center, offensive Dman, and goalie as well as at least one more impact forward leading the way. All of them.
Even one-time winners Washington and to a good degree Colorado (with the exception of the goalie) had that as well.
I don't even think a new GM would have to be all that savvy with trades and FAs (would help, of course). He'd just have to be ready and willing to change the complexion surrounding Barzal, Horvat, Dobson, Sorokin, Romanov, and Holmstrom.
He'd not simply be able to move all the others. That's clear. It also wouldn't be necessary. But Lou isn't willing to move ANY of them. And that IS necessary. The complexion must change in order to take steps back into contention.
Likely now in conjunction with some of the coach's wishes, should the choice be to continue on with Roy.
It is generally time to make use of a couple of first rounders again, especially as a team that's simply on the edge of the playoffs year for year. I certainly don't recall having ever seen a team move 5 firsts in a row, but even moving 4 in a row is usually reserved only for teams that were in the midst of winning Cups.
The sad thing is, if this current team right now were middle of the pack on the PK (currently last in the NHL), could be average at scoring empty-net goals (not a single one this season), and most importantly, could turn 95% of its 2-goal 3rd period leads into victories (more like they've turned 95% of those 2-goal 3rd period into overtime affairs), it would be right up in the top 4 in the conference as is.
And we've seen all these things for long stretches of time over the past five years. With many of the same pieces in place.
Thus, you can't shake the feeling that these gargantuan ills are entirely self-inflicted.
It's like a switch has been turned off in the group of long-standing Islanders here and they just can't flip it back on. But they're going nowhere fast until they do.
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I think that switch is age and maybe some burnout, especially with the PK unit and the guys counted on to protect a 3rd period lead.
Sometimes something clicks off and it can’t be clicked back on. I hope Lou stops trying to get blood from the stone he wrung dry.
