OT: Gay-LGBT Thread

[soothsayer]

My daughter came out a couple months ago. She's 17 and I'm extremely proud of her. I'm curious if anyone has similar experiences.

Hopefully one day no one will have to "come out," but until then, I'm glad there are parents like you out there who respect and embrace their kids for who they are. I know there are many who desperately wish they had that type of support.

 

[Kolja]

Nice response. You just made a whole wack of friends on here.

But, at the same time, wasn't asking you.

I sympahtise with the opinion tho.

 

[94 Oil Drops]

Good for her! My partner and I don't have kids nevermind teens yet so I can't give advice. I will say this though. I know plenty of gay folk who are some of the most wonderful people you'll ever meet!

It's nice to see that our society is becoming more and more accepting of others' life choices / preferences. Even in the early 2000s when I was quite young, being gay was considered disturbing and gross by a lot of people in school. Times have changed and it's a good thing too!

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Good for her! My partner and I don't have kids nevermind teens yet so I can't give advice. I will say this though. I know plenty of gay folk who are some of the most wonderful people you'll ever meet!

It's nice to see that our society is becoming more and more accepting of others' life choices / preferences. Even in the early 2000s when I was quite young, being gay was considered disturbing and gross by a lot of people in school. It's taken a long time but people are becoming more accepting than they used to be. Here's hoping that continues.

This is the kind of response I was hoping for in this thread. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Plenty experience living in Chicago. When I first arrived here, I lived in the Lakeview neighborhood, which happened to be adjacent to Boystown. It's a very open and accepting community. Great bars and patios too.

As a result, I have made numerous LGBTQ friends over the years. Indeed, two of my best friends are a gay couple. Also I later lived in Andersonville, which has a significant number of same-sex couples raising families. Our kids think nothing of their friends having two moms or two dads.

Overall, one doesn't even think about it anymore, except when I visit somewhere where being LGBTQ isn't accepted and then it's just sad to witness.

 

[nabob]

Cause men suck. In general.

A higher percentage of the lesbians I know have been in abusive relationships compared to the straight people I know.

People suck, in general.

as for the OP, my oldest has come out to us and I’m very happy they did instead of keeping it and feeling like they couldn’t tell us. I just told them that I love you no matter who you’re attracted to, and that it doesn’t change who they are one bit in my books.

 

[elmeroil]

Nice response. You just made a whole wack of friends on here.

But, at the same time, wasn't asking you.

Same response as I would have answered. To clarify, boys are really dumb and I'd rather them be close to more intelligent people. I was pretty immature and dumb well past 25, most boys are the same. Girls are not perfect but overall much better at those ages. That's my opinion.

 

[Stoneman89]

Same response as I would have answered. To clarify, boys are really dumb and I'd rather them be close to more intelligent people. I was pretty immature and dumb well past 25, most boys are the same. Girls are not perfect but overall much better at those ages. That's my opinion.

Hmmmmmm....and here I thought you were talking about sexual orientation when you said you wished they were lesbians, not who to pick for friends. And your type of generalizations are one of the main reasons our society is stuck where it is when it comes to acceptance of all people.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

I've never understood why anyone would care so much about where you put your dick etc.

That's my only issue with LGBT etc it just shows how sex is front and center in our minds.

But of course there are civil rights and harassment issues to correct.... its just silly is all.

 

[fuswald]

You should be proud that your 17 year old daughter would be honest with you it's probably rare.

Though I'm against I do believe people have the right to their opinion and should be allowed to do pretty much what they want as long as it doesn't harm others.

Of course I'll get slammed for my opinion.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I hope I don’t offend anyone here, but do people still make it a ‘big deal’ to come out?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Same response as I would have answered. To clarify, boys are really dumb and I'd rather them be close to more intelligent people. I was pretty immature and dumb well past 25, most boys are the same. Girls are not perfect but overall much better at those ages. That's my opinion.

I've taken some time before responding to this and would like to think some of your comments on this are flippant. Not calling you out, just your comments were springboard to my comments.

I've delayed too, from commenting at length first observing that the discussion of sexuality is considered OK here as a thread. Well OK then. Why is it acceptable in our society to deem males of the species dumb? Why is "toxic masculinity" an acceptable term yet we don't have similar terms for other identified sexes? I state this because in therapy a problem I was often encountering in clients was males Non accepting their own sex type characteristics. (I'm talking hetero males with this as well) that were social learned throughout their life, rather it be in school, or from one parent (primarily female parent-mom) families that aspects of their maleness was unacceptable, to be discouraged, that boys will be boys was considered less becoming. "Don't be like your father".

We're not more accepting sexually as a society, we're selectively accepting and if anything battle of the sexes is more pronounced in present day. Its inescapable to me, from clinical exposure that male characteristics are increasingly discouraged now in western society. Not just male ABUSE characteristics, but maleness in general, being described as toxic.

Males are taught from earliest age that they are dumb archetypes, that we're homer simpsons, Al Bundys, Archie Bunkers and that females or other expressions of sexuality are better, instead of equal..

A latter comment but confusion also exists in modern times about the complex and varied expressions of sexuality. Part of the "coming out" hubris is that we are still expecting some clear notion of what preferences are being expressed. So that while expressions of homogenous attraction is increasingly accepted you hear less public people coming out now as bisexual, pansexual, etc. Its like we still want to wrap sexuality into tidy packages while ignoring that in the Animal Kingdom, and in humans sexual preferences can be varied and encompassing and involving a range of sexual attraction. So that we may not just be hetero, homo, etc. I've even heard postulation from couples in therapy that saying you are bi is a cop out, that its non committal, non monogamist, despite many males in same sex relations having multiple partners. Its an interesting thing to explore. I've even seen it expressed that a male with a same sex partner is more threatened by pan sexual explorations of the partner. and especially hetero attraction.

That we still expect people to come out or express their sexuality and in nice tidy discernible packages is still very much indicative that we are prohibitive about sexual expressions

So that its a fascinatingly complex area.

 

[elmeroil]

Remembering what my friends and I were like as young males (pretty dumb) what the majority of their bf's have been like (pretty dumb) vs what their female friends are like ( a lot less dumb) we would be happy if that's who they chose to spend most of their time with. Again, our opinion

 

[Drivesaitl]

Remembering what my friends and I were like as young males (pretty dumb) what the majority of their bf's have been like (pretty dumb) vs what their female friends are like ( a lot less dumb) we would be happy if that's who they chose to spend most of their time with. Again, our opinion

Its an opinion, but one that has been drilled into you from the moment you were first available to very conscious, or unconscious agents of socialization. So that you're a male saying males are dumb and detecting no oddity in that.

Rather male behavior is heavily checked in western society. To the degree that its acceptable to just term it all toxic masculinity. Yet abuse profiles and behaviors exist in all expressions of sexuality, varying types, yes.

The male of the species, the young bucks, are not dumber, but they are more subject to raging hormones in youth and biological imperatives and in most expressions of sexuality among species males compete for females and further to procreation. Even physically compete, and in many species aggressively and dangerously compete for partners. Males are hardwired, not dumb, but we're heavily socialized to self denigrate.

 

[Stoneman89]

Remembering what my friends and I were like as young males (pretty dumb) what the majority of their bf's have been like (pretty dumb) vs what their female friends are like ( a lot less dumb) we would be happy if that's who they chose to spend most of their time with. Again, our opinion

You do realize that lesbians have males as friends as well, don't you?

 

[CycloneSweep]

Comment to the thread that I feel that the concept of "coming out" as long as that exists, still suggests that there is some different perception about sexual relations. For instance hetero individuals don't "come out" with it. They just start having interest. just food for thought.

I think it’s because society still sees the default as being hetero. Like in small talk people will ask men if they have a girlfriend or girls if they have a boyfriend. I feel like the use of more neutral terms like partner and stuff helps with that. It’s definitely coming to a point where “coming out” with your sexuality isn’t as big of a thing, but I know that in lots of religious families and stuff it’s still a big worry.
Eventually we will get to the point where it’s not a thing we care about.

 

[elmeroil]

Shaquille Oatmeal sorry I kind of de railed this thread. Trying to get it back on track for you, parents like you are so great for this world. I've seen the kids who were disowned by their parents because of it and it's really sad.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Its an opinion, but one that has been drilled into you from the moment you were first available to very conscious, or unconscious agents of socialization. So that you're a male saying males are dumb and detecting no oddity in that.

Rather male behavior is heavily checked in western society. To the degree that its acceptable to just term it all toxic masculinity. Yet abuse profiles and behaviors exist in all expressions of sexuality, varying types, yes.

The male of the species, the young bucks, are not dumber, but they are more subject to raging hormones in youth and biological imperatives and in most expressions of sexuality among species males compete for females and further to procreation. Even physically compete, and in many species aggressively and dangerously compete for partners. Males are hardwired, not dumb, but we're heavily socialized to self denigrate.

There is a lot of “boys will be boys” and “that’s not very ladylike” still pretty prevalent. Young girls can definitely just be as dumb for shit as boys, but are more looked down on for the actions and the boys just have people rolling their eyes and saying “boys are dumb” and stuff. Edit: This falls under toxic masculinity. Cause it’s not implying that male behaviour is inherently toxic but the way that society as long decided how males were supposed to be and how it was tolerated. eg: Men don’t cry, boys will be boys, men support for their families and women raise the kids.

There is the biological side of things to where women in general go thru puberty and their surge of hormones at a younger age where there is less chances to do dumb things cause there is more supervision. Guys mostly go thru that in their mid to late teens where they have more freedom in general so more opportunities to “be dumb”

 

[elmeroil]

You do realize that lesbians have males as friends as well, don't you?

Haha I do! I will simplify it and then stop because I've already apologized to the OP for derailing the thread. Our girls have boys and girls as friends. The girls are far more mature and do a lot less dumb things than the boys.

When the girls have a "partner" that's who they spend the majority of their time with. If it was up to us and it surely isn't....we would prefer their partner be female. We love them no matter what and we don't walk around telling them we wish they dated girls. That is all!

 

[Stoneman89]

Haha I do! I will simplify it and then stop because I've already apologized to the OP for derailing the thread. Our girls have boys and girls as friends. The girls are far more mature and do a lot less dumb things than the boys.

When the girls have a "partner" that's who they spend the majority of their time with. If it was up to us and it surely isn't....we would prefer their partner be female. We love them no matter what and we don't walk around telling them we wish they dated girls. That is all!

I have two grown boys and two grown girls. One of my girls is married (to a great guy), and both of my kids and their friends (male and female) are very respectful to us. Hopefully you eventually grow out of the pre-conceived stigma that most or all boys are one type. Take a closer look at social media and you can find a special type of "dumb" on some places by both sexes. IMO, calling one segment of society "dumb" is really no different than calling another segment "feminine", or another segment"lazy".

 

[nabob]

I have two grown boys and two grown girls. One of my girls is married (to a great guy), and both of my kids and their friends (male and female) are very respectful to us. Hopefully you eventually grow out of the pre-conceived stigma that most or all boys are one type. Take a closer look at social media and you can find a special type of "dumb" on some places by both sexes. IMO, calling one segment of society "dumb" is really no different than calling another segment "feminine", or "only good at athletics".

Like.

 

[Stoneman89]

Wishing your kids could be a different sexual orientation so as not to mingle with the opposite sex is kind of a "dumb statement" to be honest.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Shaquille Oatmeal sorry I kind of de railed this thread. Trying to get it back on track for you, parents like you are so great for this world. I've seen the kids who were disowned by their parents because of it and it's really sad.

I couldn't imagine disowning a child after watching them struggle with their identity for years and finally seeing them comfortable and confident with who they are. That's horrible.

 

[Stoneman89]

We have a couple great friends that now live in Buenos Aries that are gay. I first met one of them a long, long time ago while on a European trip, and we struck up a friendship that has continued to this day . At the time I met him, he was just newly divorced from his wife with 4 nearly grown kids. Shortly after that, I found out from him writing that he had met and was living with another fellow ( a fair bit younger). The relationship blossomed and they eventually married, and they now travel the world and have a nice life. Couldn't find two nicer people in the universe. It always seemed odd to me that he went through nearly 40 years of hetero life and then abandoned it. Never asked him if he was living an unfortunate lie all those years, or just had a sexual rennaisance in mid -life. Either way, it would have been difficult to move away from a former life. A guy that was in the navy, and had all the masculine characteristics you could imagine.
Anyhow, they visited us many years ago, and I remember discussing things about sexual orientation, etc, and the topic got around to things like pride parades, etc. Both of them immediately expressed their displeasure with that sort of thing, and I ask why. They said they didn't feel any need to flaunt it, and felt that those types of things with an "in your face" type of expression just drew more ire from the closed minded. They merely wanted to live their lives quietly in peace with their friends, etc. Maybe a bit of a naive approach, as others would say the parades, etc promote awareness, etc, but interesting to get their take on it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We have a couple great friends that now live in Buenos Aries that are gay. I first met one of them a long, long time ago while on a European trip, and we struck up a friendship that has continued to this day . At the time I met him, he was just newly divorced from his wife with 4 nearly grown kids. Shortly after that, I found out from him writing that he had met and was living with another fellow ( a fair bit younger). The relationship blossomed and they eventually married, and they now travel the world and have a nice life. Couldn't find two nicer people in the universe. It always seemed odd to me that he went through nearly 40 years of hetero life and then abandoned it. Never asked him if he was living an unfortunate lie all those years, or just had a sexual rennaisance in mid -life. Either way, it would have been difficult to move away from a former life. A guy that was in the navy, and had all the masculine characteristics you could imagine.
Anyhow, they visited us many years ago, and I remember discussing things about sexual orientation, etc, and the topic got around to things like pride parades, etc. Both of them immediately expressed their displeasure with that sort of thing, and I ask why. They said they didn't feel any need to flaunt it, and felt that those types of things with an "in your face" type of expression just drew more ire from the closed minded. They merely wanted to live their lives quietly in peace with their friends, etc. Maybe a bit of a naive approach, as others would say the parades, etc promote awareness, etc, but interesting to get their take on it.

Your example touches on something I was trying to explain above, and that sexual attraction can be more fluid, involve many attractions, and also change through time. But we're used to thinking about sexuality in very binary or defined, and not fluid type terms. Most people I know who are currently in same sex partnership have had other dalliance and relations too. In several cases they came to realize other attraction after having experienced typical hetero relations.

For instance I grew up at a time where celebrities from Elton John, to David Bowie to Mick Jagger had bisexual relations and were open about it. It actually seems less common now for people in public to state having bi or pan sexual relations with various other genders. Although its become more common for people to "come out" in a one attraction modality. I see the latter as a problem as its still about defining peoples sexuality into defined boxes instead of realizing how fluid human sexual attractions potentially are.