News Article: Gauthier plays all-round game well beyond his years

[Mess]

No, it shows that the Pens made a bad pick by ignoring the importance of production at the junior level.

They could have had elite players like Toews, Backstrom, or Kessel, but followed your cliche of drafting big and drafting defense, and messed up the pick.

And while I'm happy to hear your expert analysis of Gauthier's comparables, I'll remind you that you brought up Dave Morrison's words as your main argument, and it is Dave Morrison's words that used Jordan Staal as a comparable.

It's not my cliche, its simply understanding what NHL GMs actually do.

Also It was Morrison that said

"We feel pretty comfortable with his potential as a third-line center. Could he better than that? Yeah, I think he could. But I don’t think at this point you could project him better than that".

"That type of guy. Or a Martin Hanzal, another big guy down the middle. Maybe a Jordan Staal but perhaps not quite as developed offensively as Jordan".

Also that Jordan's best NHL season is 50 points, and Morrison says Gauthier is not that developed, so less than < 50 points in the future.

I simply reminded people that Jordan Staal was drafted ahead of Kessel and considered among the best of his draft class, whereas not in a 100 years would I believe Gauthier would be selected ahead of Kessel if they where in the same draft. So Jordan Staal is very loft aspirations, for those that want to chose that as a comparable.

 

[Joey Hoser]

It's not my cliche, its simply understanding what NHL GMs actually do.

Also It was Morrison that said

I simply reminded people that Jordan Staal was drafted ahead of Kessel and considered among the best of his draft class, whereas not in a 100 years would I believe Gauthier would be selected ahead of Kessel if they where in the same draft.

So Jordan Staal is very loft aspirations, for those that want to chose that as a comparable.

Zach Hamill was picked at #8, so that would that be a lofty expectation as well?

I can't believe you're still trying to make this argument work. People are referring to Jordan Staal as he is a player right now, not what his ceiling was thought to be when drafted.

 

[ACC1224]

It's not my cliche, its simply understanding what NHL GMs actually do.

Also It was Morrison that said

Also that Jordan's best NHL season is 50 points, and Morrison says Gauthier is not that developed, so less than < 50 points in the future.

I simply reminded people that Jordan Staal was drafted ahead of Kessel and considered among the best of his draft class, whereas not in a 100 years would I believe Gauthier would be selected ahead of Kessel if they where in the same draft. So Jordan Staal is very loft aspirations, for those that want to chose that as a comparable.

Agreed, Gauthier wouldn't have been drafted ahead of Kessel today. Neither would Staal.

 

[garyjones93]

You'd sort of expect that with Crosby, Malkin, MAF and the rest. If Pittsburgh could go back to the 2005 draft, they definitely would have selected Kessel or Toews over Staal.

Could you imagine Kessel on Crosby's wing. Wow. 2006 btw

 

[Mess]

Agreed, Gauthier wouldn't have been drafted ahead of Kessel today. Neither would Staal.

Pittsburgh also might not have a Stanley Cup if they didn't draft Staal, as he shut down the opponents best offensive players on their run.

Last year with Crosby and Malkin minus Staal, the Pens got swept 4 straight verses the big bad Bruins in the playoffs.. They have plenty of offense, but it seems they miss the big guy down the middle more than people believe.

The Gauthier pick is intended to have a similar future big shutdown center playing in a support role effect on the Leafs.

 

[Gallagbi]

Pittsburgh also might not have a Stanley Cup if they didn't draft Staal, as he shut down the opponents best offensive players on their run.

They may have more. It's easier to piece together a defensive system and defensive players than find elite offensive talent.

Last year with Crosby and Malkin minus Staal, the Pens got swept 4 straight verses the big bad Bruins in the playoffs.. They have plenty of offense, but it seems they miss the big guy down the middle more than people believe.

Didn't they make it further than the previous year? Wasn't offense a big issue for them in the series? They've been searching for wingers since the last lockout as well.

The Gauthier pick is intended to have a similar future big shutdown center playing in a support role effect on the Leafs.

I agree, I'm hoping our late first turns out like their top 3 pick

 

[ACC1224]

Pittsburgh also might not have a Stanley Cup if they didn't draft Staal, as he shut down the opponents best offensive players on their run.

Last year with Crosby and Malkin minus Staal, the Pens got swept 4 straight verses the big bad Bruins in the playoffs.. They have plenty of offense, but it seems they miss the big guy down the middle more than people believe.

The Gauthier pick is intended to have a similar future big shutdown center playing in a support role effect on the Leafs.

Sure, they may also have won many. They sure could have used some goal scoring in last years playoffs.

 

[theIceWookie]

It's not my cliche, its simply understanding what NHL GMs actually do.

Also It was Morrison that said

Also that Jordan's best NHL season is 50 points, and Morrison says Gauthier is not that developed, so less than < 50 points in the future.

I simply reminded people that Jordan Staal was drafted ahead of Kessel and considered among the best of his draft class, whereas not in a 100 years would I believe Gauthier would be selected ahead of Kessel if they where in the same draft. So Jordan Staal is very loft aspirations, for those that want to chose that as a comparable.

What does Kessel's draft year have to do with anything. Doesn't make any sense to use that to draw a conclusion on Gauthier. Even the stupid comparison to Staal.

 

[613Leafer]

I simply reminded people that Jordan Staal was drafted ahead of Kessel and considered among the best of his draft class, whereas not in a 100 years would I believe Gauthier would be selected ahead of Kessel if they where in the same draft. So Jordan Staal is very loft aspirations, for those that want to chose that as a comparable.

To be fair, Jordan was drafted high largely due to the name on the back of his jersey and the potential they saw with his big frame. Look at his Junior numbers. They're really no that impressive considering where he was drafted. Same PPG pace as Gauthier.

If he had a different last name, I really don't think he would have been a top 5 pick, and potentially not even a top 10 pick.

 

[theIceWookie]

Pittsburgh also might not have a Stanley Cup if they didn't draft Staal, as he shut down the opponents best offensive players on their run.

Last year with Crosby and Malkin minus Staal, the Pens got swept 4 straight verses the big bad Bruins in the playoffs.. They have plenty of offense, but it seems they miss the big guy down the middle more than people believe.

The Gauthier pick is intended to have a similar future big shutdown center playing in a support role effect on the Leafs.

Where Staal was drafted really has nothing to do with how he developed. It's quite likely that playing behind Crosby and Malkin actually stunted certain parts of Staal's game and helped develop other parts. As in helped develop his defensive game, and stunted his offensive game. The same way Couturier is getting his offensive game stunted.

The Gauthier pick can be that but no one in there right minds would limit him to that if he shows more. That's really all people are saying. They are saying that there appears to be potential for more of an offensive role. Not that he's going to be a first liner, not that he's going to be an elite two-way number two, just that he has potential for more offense than some might think.

 

[Morguee]

I like the fact that he is being portrayed as a 3rd line center for the public, it is good expectation management. Privately they probably have much loftier hopes but we the public do not need to know this right now. It is a much better approach when dealing with the Toronto fan base then calling a 18/19 kid the future captain of the team or saying another one is the best player in that years draft. Downplay the kids somewhat and let the fans be surprised rather than disappointed.

 

[613Leafer]

I like the fact that he is being portrayed as a 3rd line center for the public, it is good expectation management. Privately they probably have much loftier hopes but we the public do not need to know this right now. It is a much better approach when dealing with the Toronto fan base then calling a 18/19 kid the future captain of the team or saying another one is the best player in that years draft. Downplay the kids somewhat and let the fans be surprised rather than disappointed.

Yea. I facepalmed when immediately after drafting Rielly, Burke goes on camera and starts boasting about how they had him ranked #1... Yea, no pressure!

I guess for marketing/financial reasons, it can make some sense to boast like that. But for the development of the prospect? It will hurt more prospects than it will help.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Sure, it was obviously the lack of Jordan Staal that made the pens get swept by the Bruins. Not the fact that their scorers didn't show up.

Kessel had more points vs the Bruins in the six games than Crosby, Malkin and Letang combined.

 

[Mess]

Where Staal was drafted really has nothing to do with how he developed. It's quite likely that playing behind Crosby and Malkin actually stunted certain parts of Staal's game and helped develop other parts. As in helped develop his defensive game, and stunted his offensive game. The same way Couturier is getting his offensive game stunted.

The Gauthier pick can be that but no one in there right minds would limit him to that if he shows more. That's really all people are saying. They are saying that there appears to be potential for more of an offensive role. Not that he's going to be a first liner, not that he's going to be an elite two-way number two, just that he has potential for more offense than some might think.

You are always hoping that any pick you make in any round exceeds expectations.

However scouts that do it for a living have a reasonable expectation for players they draft. Morrison sees Gauthier as that big shutdown 3rd line future center, because he doesn't have the offensive creativity of a player like Kadri. Players don't magically develop hands and offensive instincts.

 

[theIceWookie]

Yea. I facepalmed when immediately after drafting Rielly, Burke goes on camera and starts boasting about how they had him ranked #1... Yea, no pressure!

I guess for marketing/financial reasons, it can make some sense to boast like that. But for the development of the prospect? It will hurt more prospects than it will help.

Different players also respond to things differently. I guarantee you that they look at players temperaments and maturity levels and look into the way that specific player ticks. In fact Morrison has stated and hinted as much.

Hence where a guy like Rielly might actually do well with that kind of pressure, and Gauthier may need to be in an environment with less pressure. Different prospects respond differently, and teams will handle them differently. That applies to on-ice development as much as it does to a players maturity level and mental development.

 

[theIceWookie]

You are always hoping that any pick you make in any round exceeds expectations.

However scouts that do it for a living have a reasonable expectation for players they draft. Morrison sees Gauthier as that big shutdown 3rd line future center, because he doesn't have the offensive creativity of a player like Kadri. Players don't magically develop hands and offensive instincts.

So apparently a guy who puts up 60 points in his first CHL season has no offensive instinct? Step off.

Morrison plays the mental game with prospects as much as he does the development game. Sometimes prospects need low expectations and pressure to be able to grow. Sometimes tehy need high pressure.

It's absolutely idiotic of you to pigeonhole him and completely close off the option of him continuing to grow offensively. Just as its idiotic to look into it too much. All some of us are saying is there's a little more mystery to his game offensively. It's way to early to judge him offensively after only one season (one very good season).

 

[Mess]

So apparently a guy who puts up 60 points in his first CHL season has no offensive instinct? Step off.

Morrison plays the mental game with prospects as much as he does the development game. Sometimes prospects need low expectations and pressure to be able to grow. Sometimes they need high pressure.

It's absolutely idiotic of you to pigeonhole him and completely close off the option of him continuing to grow offensively. Just as its idiotic to look into it too much. All some of us are saying is there's a little more mystery to his game offensively. It's way to early to judge him offensively after only one season (one very good season).

You know how many CHL players are capable of putting up 60 points in a season? Answer: Many of them.

The QMJHL is a high scoring league and the player drafted right before Gauthier in Anthony Manta had 50 goals and 89 points in comparison. That is a player with "offensive instincts" for example coming out of the draft. Emile Poirier the player drafted right after Gauthier @#22 overall from the Q scored 32 goals and 70 points compared to 22 goals and 60 points from Freddy.

I'm a firm believer in "defense wins championships" and I support Morrison in the belief that a Martin Hanzal type big, shutdown 3rd line center is a valuable addition to a team that has desires of being successful.. If Leafs get a similar player as the one most scouts (TSN etc) use as the closest comparable then I think the pick was successful.

Jordan Staal at age 18 made the Pens and scored 29 goals in his rookie NHL season. I don't expect many fans believe 18 year old Gauthier will be making the Leafs and having a similar impact any time soon.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Jordan Staal at age 18 made the Pens and scored 29 goals in his rookie NHL season. I don't expect many fans believe 18 year old Gauthier will be making the Leafs and having a similar impact any time soon.

Staal's 29 goal season shouldn't be used as a benchmark for being like Jordan Staal. He hasn't beaten 25 goals in all 6 seasons he's played since. That's like using Kulemin's 30 goal season, or Jason Blake's 40 goal season as benchmarks for being like them.

Is Kessel a poor-man's Blake because he hasn't scored 40?

You know how many CHL players are capable of putting up 60 points in a season? Answer: Many of them.

Yeah, like Staal and his 68 points in his draft year which was just 8 more point in 6 more games than Gauthier in his draft year.

The QMJHL is a high scoring league

This is a myth. In the last decade or so, average goals per game in the Q has been similar or often less than that in the W or O.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

You'd sort of expect that with Crosby, Malkin, MAF and the rest. If Pittsburgh could go back to the 2005 draft, they definitely would have selected Kessel or Toews over Staal.

They won a Cup with Jordan Staal, not Toews or Kessel. Somehow I doubt management was thinking, 'darn, we should've drafted Toews' after they won that cup. And no, having drafted Toews or Kessel instead of Staal would not have guaranteed anything.

 

[Mess]

Gauthier is a slow developer in that he only has 1 CHL season under his belt before being draft eligible at 18.

With smaller players sometimes they're held back but usually big players move up to the CHL sooner (as early as age 16) because they have the size to play against older players, whereas Gauthier was still playing midget AAA, much longer them most.

So he is relatively raw as a junior player in CHL terms with a limited history to base future expectations on. This might be good or bad depending on how he develops now.

 

[Cor]

They won a Cup with Jordan Staal, not Toews or Kessel. Somehow I doubt management was thinking, 'darn, we should've drafted Toews' after they won that cup. And no, having drafted Toews or Kessel instead of Staal would not have guaranteed anything.

I doubt changing Staal with Toews would have hurt them

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Anthony Mantha is not comparable to Gauthier. If Mantha was a couple days older, he would have been a 2012 draft pick.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I doubt changing Staal with Toews would have hurt them

Fantasy numbers would have been better but it wouldn't have guaranteed them a Cup. He would've likely been out the door by now too, given the salary cap

 

[Cor]

Fantasy numbers would have been better but it wouldn't have guaranteed them a Cup. He would've likely been out the door by now too, given the salary cap

So is Staal.

Staal was there for their cup, so would have Toews.

You can say he wouldn't have guaranteed their cup, however on the flip side you can say he could have secured them the 2nd cup against Detroit.

 

[Gallagbi]

Fantasy numbers would have been better but it wouldn't have guaranteed them a Cup. He would've likely been out the door by now too, given the salary cap

Doesn't guarantee them a cup, but gives them a better asset. A better piece to trade or re-sign should improve their team.