Gauthier debuts at number two spot in Toronto Maple Leafs Top 20

[Man Bear Pig]

Plenty of quantity, lacking high-end talent. Wish they'd go for a few more home-run picks, but I get it, they rarely work out.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

How is percy ahead of granberg wut

Have you ever watched Granberg or Percy play, or is this just a product of the hype machine?

nice list. especially good job with the individual grades, which I agree with almost 100%....you're much more realistic with your grades than the guys making lists for other teams (especially that habs guy....)...

my only quibbles:

1) The right 5 are in the top-5 IMO, but I'd have Finn ahead of colborne and leivo, and maybe Gauthier. (him and gauthier I have basically tied for 2nd spot, and I wouldn't hesistate to give Finn a 7.5 i.e.good #2/3 dman realistic upside). Finn's 7.0C grade is probably the only one on the list I disagree with strongly. He's got more upside than that.

2) Still think you're rating Blacker too high. I'd give McKegg a top-10 spot ahead of him, and kick him out of the top-10.

Just took a quick look at that- hilarious.

Great job J-E. Very fair rankings.

 

[zeke]

At the end of the day though, it's just a fan organized 'scouting system'.

well, no doubt most of them suck, which in addition to making those lists useless also makes team to team comparisons based on these ratings absolutely useless.....but John-Eric's grades and rankings are usually very good.

 

[613Leafer]

Plenty of quantity, lacking high-end talent. Wish they'd go for a few more home-run picks, but I get it, they rarely work out.

Easier to do when you have more picks. We've only made 34 draft selections over the past 5 drafts.

Chicago on the other hand, has made 45 picks over that time span. Allowing them to use an extra 2nd round pick on a guy like Saad.

We traded up to grab Biggs.. who at the time projected as a 3rd liner, when we could have stayed where we were, taken the top goalie prospect in the draft (Gibson) AND taken one of Musil, Grimaldi, Jurco, Saad, Rattie, Jenner, etc.

Sure, hindsight is 20/20.. but i would argue it never really makes sense to trade a late 1st and an early 2nd to move up to grab a potential 3rd liner. While Biggs may bring the same physical elements that a guy like Lucic does, he simply doesn't bring the offence, and was never really expected to.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Easier to do when you have more picks. We've only made 34 draft selections over the past 5 drafts.

Chicago on the other hand, has made 45 picks over that time span. Allowing them to use an extra 2nd round pick on a guy like Saad.

We traded up to grab Biggs.. who at the time projected as a 3rd liner, when we could have stayed where we were, taken the top goalie prospect in the draft (Gibson) AND taken one of Musil, Grimaldi, Jurco, Saad, Rattie, Jenner, etc.

Sure, hindsight is 20/20.. but i would argue it never really makes sense to trade a late 1st and an early 2nd to move up to grab a potential 3rd liner. While Biggs may bring the same physical elements that a guy like Lucic does, he simply doesn't bring the offence, and was never really expected to.

Oh, I agree. I didn't mention it but was thinking it. Moving up to take a guy like Biggs is a home-run pick but given the cost, it wasn't worth it. It's not even a 20/20 sort of thing because we have no idea what Biggs will become. Trading picks again for a regressing Bolland is another questionable move, of many. Keeping first round picks is a no-brainer, those second and third rounders is where you get the most bang for your buck.

 

[Porn*]

maybe now they'll take Frattin off the floating top 20 at the top of the Leafs forum lol

 

[613Leafer]

Oh, I agree. I didn't mention it but was thinking it. Moving up to take a guy like Biggs is a home-run pick but given the cost, it wasn't worth it. It's not even a 20/20 sort of thing because we have no idea what Biggs will become. Trading picks again for a regressing Bolland is another questionable move, of many. Keeping first round picks is a no-brainer, those second and third rounders is where you get the most bang for your buck.

I really like Bolland, and love guys that play that style of game with their hearts on their sleeve. But yea, I think it was a bad move. We could have just signed a guy like Boyd Gordon in free agency and given up nothing. Or if we hadn't traded away so many picks over the previous 5+ years, we likely would have had an internal solution anyways.

So while yea, it's not like we traded away a 1st rounder or a top prospect... having extra 2nds/3rds/4ths really does make a difference. 10 extra picks over a the course of 5 years? That's how you significantly increase your chances of being the team to draft a Weber (Nashville had four 2nd rounders that draft...), Bergeron (Boston had two 2nd rounders that draft), etc in the 2nd rounder or later.

Legitimate top line players are found every single year outside of the 1st round, and yet we haven't drafted a single one since Kaberle, which was like 15 years ago. There's a reason for that.

 

[SteveV*]

Man we are thin with regards to high end forwards. Our prospect pool now, with all the graduations, I would classify as BELOW average. On the plus side, we have a young pro team, so.... Defenceman good, forwards sparce, goaltending abysmal.

 

[613Leafer]

Man we are thin with regards to high end forwards. Our prospect pool now, with all the graduations, I would classify as BELOW average. On the plus side, we have a young pro team, so.... Defenceman good, forwards sparce, goaltending abysmal.

This is why I think it could be a good idea to trade an NHL defenceman (such as Franson) for a forward prospect or combination of prospect(s)/pick(s).

You could subtract Franson, and in 2 years, our blueline wouldn't feel it at all. You could even subtract Phaneuf (in this case keeping Franson), and our blueline would probably be fine within a few years.

 

[mikebel111*]

good read and agree with the rankings for the most part.

blacker getting called up twice means that management thinks he is ready or close to being ready. he has improved his game at a good pace the last couple months of the season. he has a chance to make the leafs. same for ashton or d'amigo.

 

[The Magic Man]

Wilson played Gardsy a lot. Aside from Kadri a lot of players developed nicely under Wilson. It was team success that was missing

They were a consistently good team that went deep in the playoffs a couple times under Eakins. I believe that's why he is in the NHL now.

 

[hockeygeek]

They were a consistently good team that went deep in the playoffs a couple times under Eakins. I believe that's why he is in the NHL now.

I agree...not sure that we're on the same topic though

 

[The Magic Man]

I agree...not sure that we're on the same topic though

right. I was thinking Eakins.

 

[Stephen]

Man we are thin with regards to high end forwards. Our prospect pool now, with all the graduations, I would classify as BELOW average. On the plus side, we have a young pro team, so.... Defenceman good, forwards sparce, goaltending abysmal.

We need to target more of that slick scoring element in the draft. Having character guys is all well and good but if what you're putting into the system already amounts to role players in junior, you're not exactly going to get a home run in the even they make it to the NHL level.

 

[Northernguy10]

Oh, I agree. I didn't mention it but was thinking it. Moving up to take a guy like Biggs is a home-run pick but given the cost, it wasn't worth it. It's not even a 20/20 sort of thing because we have no idea what Biggs will become. Trading picks again for a regressing Bolland is another questionable move, of many. Keeping first round picks is a no-brainer, those second and third rounders is where you get the most bang for your buck.

Yep.I was against both of those moves for the reasons mentioned earlier in the post.The Leafs are sorely lacking in top 6 forward potential although Leivo , Toninato and/or Verhaeghe may develop into those roles. I'll be following Justin Bailey's development/career as he is just the type of player you pick at 51st in a strong draft (big, skilled and ready to prove a lot of scouts wrong apparently). Giving up two 4ths (one in a deep draft year) and a second for Bolland was a mistake. I know many disagree but the timing (not ready to contend yet), his salary in a reduced cap year and the fact he is a UFA next year along with the loss of draft picks all points in that direction to me.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Easier to do when you have more picks. We've only made 34 draft selections over the past 5 drafts.

Chicago on the other hand, has made 45 picks over that time span. Allowing them to use an extra 2nd round pick on a guy like Saad.

We traded up to grab Biggs.. who at the time projected as a 3rd liner, when we could have stayed where we were, taken the top goalie prospect in the draft (Gibson) AND taken one of Musil, Grimaldi, Jurco, Saad, Rattie, Jenner, etc.

Sure, hindsight is 20/20.. but i would argue it never really makes sense to trade a late 1st and an early 2nd to move up to grab a potential 3rd liner. While Biggs may bring the same physical elements that a guy like Lucic does, he simply doesn't bring the offence, and was never really expected to.

I doubt Lucic was expected to bring the offense that he does either.

 

[The Blue Devil]

What I don't get is how some people talk about Clarkson as being a great top 6 guy that brings character etc. but at the same time completely disregard Biggs' potential and just label him as some bottom line guy. He's a guy who has the potential to be like a Clarkson or even better IMO.

 

[bonjovi0308]

Agree with the majority opinion here, Ashton, Blacker and Brad Ross all seem too high while Granberg, ,Toninato, Cameranesi, and even Verhaeghe might deserve higher rankings.

It seems our prospect depth is weakest at RW

And it is sad for a sure fire good 3rd line C with upside potential as 2nd C in the NHL as our 2nd best prospect. It speaks how bare our prospect board is in terms of high end scoring talent.

So plz let Franson walk in return for high picks and young players.

 

[bonjovi0308]

What I don't get is how some people talk about Clarkson as being a great top 6 guy that brings character etc. but at the same time completely disregard Biggs' potential and just label him as some bottom line guy. He's a guy who has the potential to be like a Clarkson or even better IMO.

Make Clarkson to become god father of Biggs and to train together. Biggs's upside is Clarkson at prime with better hockey IQ and better defense. However not sure if Biggs would have that desire and love for hockey games to take him to that level.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I knew he would slot in above Joe.

 

[ponder]

I like Gauthier at #2, but I still think you guys are too high on Colborne. I feel his absolute max upside is a decent #2 C, with him more likely being a decent #3 C, or possibly even a non-NHLer. I'd put Biggs in the same boat (should be anywhere from a 2nd line PF winger to a 3rd line PF winger, and if anything maybe a bit more of a lock to have a long-ish NHL career than Colborne), yet Biggs is ranked as our 10th best prospect, and Colborne our 3rd best. I personally prefer guys like Biggs, Percy and Finn to Colborne.

Agreed with the general comments that there's a pretty massive drop-off in talent after Rielly, which kind of sucks. At the same time, I do think a lot of these guys could go on to be decent NHLers, and depth is extremely valuable, so it's not all bad having a bunch of decent prospects.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

What I don't get is how some people talk about Clarkson as being a great top 6 guy that brings character etc. but at the same time completely disregard Biggs' potential and just label him as some bottom line guy. He's a guy who has the potential to be like a Clarkson or even better IMO.

I agree. He's totally underrated.

 

[SprDaVE]

There's a lot of depth in that top 20.

I think there's a few wildcards that could jump back up and make our prospect pool top 10 ish. Players like Finn (even though ranked high), Asthon, Ross, Percy and Biggs all had average/poor years due injuries and/or poor offensive stats, for which brought down their potential in the eyes of many.

We did have a couple risers in Leivo, Toninato and Granberg, but doesn't seem like neither got much of a bump in terms of rating. Camanerasi barely moved, if at all, and he had a great rookie year in the NCAA.

Either way, I really like the depth we have on the farm. We definitely need more upside in the forward ranks, especially down the middle, but at least our defensive core has a ton of upside and we have a boatload of top 9 wingers.

 

[thewave]

It's not bad, Gauthier was a fantastic pick, IMHO he is top ten in some draft years. Rielly we know Finn should be great as well. I am not sold on the rest of the bunch but that's not slighting them.

As far as sure bets my three are above. The other guys have to earn it.

Edit: I think Colborne could be useful just not sure if he has the gear to displace other options.

 

[crump]

Definitely need more pop up front in the prospect list. Agree that we could parlay some defensive strength into top six forward prospects. At the prospect level, Finn or Percy could be moved for a forward prospect. Though it may be better to let them show potential at the NHL level, then cash in. More Schenn for JVR deals. I have a feeling Nonis may have to choose between Gardiner and Rielly in the near future. Very similar players, with Phaneuf also a potential chip, hate to see any of them go, but if we get a young bonafide top six forward coming back....interesting year ahead.