Speculation: Gary Mason on the Canucks and the Offseason

[PhilMick]

No offense intended, but can we not have another thread of your wild overrating of Tyler Myers? You've brought it up about a 1000 times, and I don't think anybody agrees with you.

If Gillis made that trade, I'd probably stop watching the team until he was fired

But he's a #1 RHD!

A NUMBER ONE RHD!!

 

[Angry Little Elf]

but he's a #1 rhd!

A number one rhd!!

trade 4 him nao. Do eeeet gillis!

 

[Hal 9000*]

Not it's not. He's just as suspect defensively, maybe more so, and not nearly as good offensively. Myers has been on a steady decline since his rookie season but is being paid going forward based on that rookie season's performance. He's young enough to turn his game around, but he's got a Dion Phaneuf-like vibe when he was dealt from Calgary, but Phaneuf wasn't on nearly as much of a slide as Myers has been on.

Well, I'm certainly not fighting this guy's battle, I just don't think it's such a crazy idea that the guy who mentioned it should be slagged.

 

[Alflives*]

No offense intended, but can we not have another thread of your wild overrating of Tyler Myers? You've brought it up about a 1000 times, and I don't think anybody agrees with you.

If Gillis made that trade, I'd probably stop watching the team until he was fired

No intention of 'stealing' a thread. I enjoy reading other posters opinions on matters. After reading many here, I can accept that the Canucks need a big, skilled (and young) forward like a Bobby Ryan in their top group. If Edler could return Ryan (which I doubt) I'm okay with that. However, every team that does well in the playoffs seems to have one D-man, who is playing 25+ minutes. I see the Canucks needing that player more than a Bobby Ryan type guy. The Canucks have two Art Ross winners, and a Selke in their top six forwards; they don't have that elite guy on D. Sure it's a gamble, but one I believe worth taking. If it's not Meyers, who else could the Canucks have any hope of acquiring that could play that top role, when playoffs come?

 

[freakydave]

Bieksa has a full NTC. Edler has a NTC clause kicking in. Everyone agreed when Edler was signed that the Canucks probably got about a $1M / yr salary reduction. Did he progress this year? no. Is now the time to trade him? Probably not.

Yes we have some salary issues. But I would prefer to see the Canucks try to package Luongo and Booth and get a decent player back with a cap hit and get a couple of 2nd rounders then trade away a valuable asset like Edler, who is just coming into his prime.

Yes before the NTC kicks in--he's the only asset that has trade value -after the ntc kicks in moving him will be difficult.

Ditching booth Ballard & Luongo isnt going to improve team.Luongo couldn't even get traded by Gillis.The only hope for a retool is moving assets that have value.

 

[Addison Rae]

Myers is nowhere near Edler in terms of value.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

myers's and edler's contracts both end the same year. myers' cap hit is 500k more than edler's. BUT-- the real reason why this swap isn't going to happen no matter how good myers is or isn't is because myers's contract started last year and it was super front loaded, with the $12 million base salary he made last year being twice as much as any other year of the contract, and on top of that he banked a $10 million signing bonus. meaning that $22 million is already off that contract. after already paying off more than half of the total contract ($38.5 million) in one single year, no way is buffalo going to let some other team enjoy the discounted years.

 

[me2]

myers's and edler's contracts both end the same year. myers' cap hit is 500k more than edler's. BUT-- the real reason why this swap isn't going to happen no matter how good myers is or isn't is because myers's contract started last year and it was super front loaded, with the $12 million base salary he made last year being twice as much as any other year of the contract, and on top of that he banked a $10 million signing bonus. meaning that $22 million is already off that contract. after already paying off more than half of the total contract ($38.5 million) in one single year, no way is buffalo going to let some other team enjoy the discounted years.

think the $12m includes the signing bonus.

 

[Dado]

think the $12m includes the signing bonus.

Capgeek says $12M salary AND $10M bonus for this past year.

 

[m9]

A trade around Edler and Myers would make sense for both sides, but there would need to be more from Buffalo's side. Ott and Myers for Edler would be a reasonable base, add filler to both sides as needed.

They've traded multiple times in the past, Buffalo could reunite Edler/Ehrhoff and Gillis finally gets his hands on Ott.

 

[racerjoe]

Capgeek says $12M salary AND $10M bonus for this past year.

If I am not mistaken, it was 2 mil salaray, 10 mil bonus year 1, and another 10 mil bonus July first last year. But that is just from memory, so I could be really wrong.

 

[LiquidSnake]

Wild fans made that offer on the trade board. So he isn't a "throw in."

That smurf happened to outscore everyone on our roster except Burrows. And did so on a garbage Calgary team that occasionally tried to force him into a centre role.
.

Frustrated Wild fans doing a fire sale. There's no way their management would do that.

And who cares about the points he got Calgary. Somebody is going to get those on a garbage team. Look no further than David Booth.

He's undersized and isn't the greatest skater and can be knocked off the puck easily. Good on the PP though. He's essentially already a Canuck.

 

[Dado]

If I am not mistaken, it was 2 mil salaray, 10 mil bonus year 1, and another 10 mil bonus July first last year. But that is just from memory, so I could be really wrong.

It's possible. Capgeek isn't providing sufficient detail to completely discount that.

 

[Proto]

That's arguable. I haven't seen as much of Myers as I have Edler, but how many backbreaking/heartbreaking giveaway's and gaffs can we watch Edler make? Every one seems worse than the last - it's getting very hard to watch him play.
I do put a lot of his play on our coaches, but you have to admit that we've overrated Edler for a couple years now too.

Myers was healthy scratched quite a bit this year, and generally looks like a real project that's being paid like he's Kimmo Timmonen. People just like Myers because he''s tall like Chara and put up a bunch of points on the PP in his rookie season. I wouldn't trade Bieksa for him straight across.

 

[Proto]

No intention of 'stealing' a thread. I enjoy reading other posters opinions on matters. After reading many here, I can accept that the Canucks need a big, skilled (and young) forward like a Bobby Ryan in their top group. If Edler could return Ryan (which I doubt) I'm okay with that. However, every team that does well in the playoffs seems to have one D-man, who is playing 25+ minutes. I see the Canucks needing that player more than a Bobby Ryan type guy. The Canucks have two Art Ross winners, and a Selke in their top six forwards; they don't have that elite guy on D. Sure it's a gamble, but one I believe worth taking. If it's not Meyers, who else could the Canucks have any hope of acquiring that could play that top role, when playoffs come?

That's fair, but it's not Tyler Myers -- not right now, anyway. This year I would have though Garrison would have been the guy playing 25 minutes a night, but AV decided it would be Edler and Bieksa. /shrugs

 

[Tiranis]

Salary on capgeek means salary + signing bonus. So it's $2m salary and $10m signing bonus.

 

[Verviticus]

Cut the guy some slack. Most people here want Luongo bought out, waived or given away for free, that means that the deal is basically Edler for Myers (and cap space). How is that so bad?

take all the things elder is as a player, comprehensively. now make all of those things worse, including his contract. now make him a bit younger

congrats!! you got myers

 

[leftwinglockdown]

take all the things elder is as a player, comprehensively. now make all of those things worse, including his contract. now make him a bit younger

congrats!! you got myers

This. 100x This.

Seriously, I am a big fan of Myer's potential from how he started in the league but we have no idea if he gets there and the kid is already on a contract that is bigger than Edler's.

If we're trading a 50pt all-star d-man, we'd want a legit proven forward and not Edler-lite.

 

[mossey3535]

take all the things elder is as a player, comprehensively. now make all of those things worse, including his contract. now make him a bit younger

congrats!! you got myers

I watched sabres games this year to see Coho and I was shocked to see how bad myers had become. He was literally never in the right position,just running around doing nothing frantically. And he wasn't physical at all.

 

[Alflives*]

That's fair, but it's not Tyler Myers -- not right now, anyway. This year I would have though Garrison would have been the guy playing 25 minutes a night, but AV decided it would be Edler and Bieksa. /shrugs

Oh, I agree about Garrison. He could be the top minute guy the Canucks need, but who does would be his partner in the top pair? Another concern with the Canuck's D group is the number of guys, who play better on the left side. Garrison can play both sides, but (like the other guys) is a lot better on his natural side. That means he is with either Bieksa, Tanev, or Corrado. None of those three is really a top pairing guy. The Canucks need to have better balance in their D-group. If it's not Meyers (many have pointed out he is not as good as his price tag) then who? Guys like Shea Weber are not coming, sadly. So who could play in that top pair with Garrison? We need a guy who plays the right side, and can play 20+ minutes 5 on 5, if Garrison is going to be the 'guy'. Tanev?

 

[PhilMick]

I watched sabres games this year to see Coho and I was shocked to see how bad myers had become. He was literally never in the right position,just running around doing nothing frantically. And he wasn't physical at all.

Man I remember in 2010 thinking "I can't wait for the Sochi Olympics, Myers is going to be awesome!" Who broke him!!?

 

[DennisReynolds]

Man I remember in 2010 thinking "I can't wait for the Sochi Olympics, Myers is going to be awesome!" Who broke him!!?

I believe Ruff

 

[PhilMick]

I believe Ruff

Let's...not hire him.

 

[Proto]

Oh, I agree about Garrison. He could be the top minute guy the Canucks need, but who does would be his partner in the top pair? Another concern with the Canuck's D group is the number of guys, who play better on the left side. Garrison can play both sides, but (like the other guys) is a lot better on his natural side. That means he is with either Bieksa, Tanev, or Corrado. None of those three is really a top pairing guy. The Canucks need to have better balance in their D-group. If it's not Meyers (many have pointed out he is not as good as his price tag) then who? Guys like Shea Weber are not coming, sadly. So who could play in that top pair with Garrison? We need a guy who plays the right side, and can play 20+ minutes 5 on 5, if Garrison is going to be the 'guy'. Tanev?

I think the D pairings do present the problems you outline. I can see some possibilities.

1.) Find a right side defenseman, as you mentioned. I don't think Tanev is ready to play that role yet, as ideally you'd have someone that can drive a bit more offense at even strength.

2.) Leave Hamhuis/Garrison together (they were very good last year) and try to find another rock solid left side D to play with Bieksa, which would mean the end of Alex Edler in Vancouver. I wonder if Willie Mitchell will be made available by LA. He's had a lot of injury concerns, but I'm sure he'd come back to Vancouver, and with only one year left on his deal, the risk is minimal.

3.) If Bieksa's problems last year were mostly health concerns (there are rumours of off-season surgery), then you can go back to Hamhuis/Bieksa as a pairing that eats tough minutes, and try out Edler/Garrison on your second pairing. Garrison played a very good right side with Hamhuis, and that's a pairing that wasn't really tried last year.

Gillis certainly has his work cut out for him. Too bad the coaching staff was too obstinate to sort some of these issues out for him.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

That's arguable. I haven't seen as much of Myers as I have Edler, but how many backbreaking/heartbreaking giveaway's and gaffs can we watch Edler make? Every one seems worse than the last - it's getting very hard to watch him play.
I do put a lot of his play on our coaches, but you have to admit that we've overrated Edler for a couple years now too.

I watch Myers on a semi-regular basis since I catch a number of Eastern games. Believe me, Myers is significantly worse at those gaffs than Edler. He makes Bieksa-esque boneheaded mistakes and this season did so with more frequency than Bieksa. While he is young and has a higher ceiling, Myers is not likely to make the cut above a good 3rd or 4th defenseman, whereas Edler is a #2 at worst. Myers overachieved one season and has done little to dissuade the belief it was a fluke.